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So I was finishing up at the range and decided to experiment with single loaded rounds vs. magazine fed rounds fired. I found that the mag fed seemed to shoot a little tighter..... hmmmmm...
1891 Argentine Mauser
Norma 7.65x53 brass
WLR primers
16.5 grains IMR-4227
2.900” OAL
Attachment 268274Attachment 268274
Ok. I will have to download the other target later. Having some difficulties.
First thing that comes to my mind is maybe it had something to do with heat. The rounds in the mag would be exposed somewhat to the heat generated by the round being fired and if you're doing fairly quick follow up shots, the chamber would conceivably be hotter when they go in as well. What strike me as odd is that the big thing i know about heat is that when guns get really hot, like machine guns getting hot, they start spitting the rounds out with far less accuracy.
Maybe that amount of heat is a sweet spot. Warms 'em just a little so they fit tighter in the chamber?
This of course is pure conjecture. I have no idea the rapidity b y which you were shooting. Maybe having a mag of them let you keep more concentration on the target. So could be mechanical, could be the operator.
This interests me and any more info you could provide about the methodology along with the second target you mentioned would be great to see.
Thanks for the puzzle!
Cheers,
flop
1891 Argentine Mauser
Norma 7.65x53 brass
WLR primers
16.5 grains IMR-4227
2.900” OAL
what boolit were you using
ARs have the same problem. It's alignment in the chamber. Even 'riding' the handle in AR will blow the group.
I have no idea why this other pic will not load. Chapping my fanny!!!! Sorry, forgot bullet info.
314299 sized to .313
2500 lube
Gas checked
50 lead/50 Linotype
I used about a 30 second cadence between shots on both single feed and mag fed. After firing the 5 single feed shots I waited 5 minutes then began the mag fed experiment.
I know the wisdom with Garands is the first round that you have to feed into the chamber will be a little different poi than the other 7 that are worked over by action.
Could be that when cycling the loaded rounds through the magazine the powder ends up in the front of the case rather than up near the primer. Could very well be wrong on this. Frank
[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/zLSh7cdS/5-B444...-DB1697-D7.jpg[/IMG]
There it is. Finally. This is the target I shot using magazine fed rounds. Same range and the same POA as the single loaded one seen above. Tighter and about an inch lower. I recall Harris saying something about using the magazine when he is shooting when he wrote “The Load”.
When shooting from the bench loading from the magazine most often gives a much more uniform and consistent positioning of the powder when the cartridge is chambered. With smaller reduced charges of powder in large cases [such as 16.5 gr 4227 in the 7.65 Argentine case] powder positioning is not consistent when single loading unless one takes care to do so.
What it says about the positioning of the gunpowder is very interesting.
I have tried to be as careful as possible when load with boolits, to obtain the highest possible precision.
What do you think is the best system to charge and always stay the same?
I have tried this experiment with other bolt guns as well since this and I have all had tighter groups with loading from the magazine. I don’t ***** foot the bolt getting it in battery but, I don’t run it hard like I am returning enemy fire either.
The results have been consistently a little tighter.
range to target? forgive me if I missed it!
I started at 50 yards. However, it has been consistently tighter at 100 and 200 yards as well. YMMV.
That is a pretty dramatic demonstration...thanks for sharing your experience. I think everybody pretty well agrees...let autoloaders autoload. But bolt guns? You could'a cleaned out my wallet on that bet (not that you'd be getting much).
Thanks Flintlocke. I would have never guessed the results either.
i bought a 91 argie this this year. i have the dies and the cases and boolits(lee c312 r) but i don't have time.
Using some type of filler such as kapok might help with position sensitive loads. It might be worth trying.
Argie.
It would be interesting to see the experiment repeated using a powder positioner like Dacron or a filler like kapok as Argie suggests.
i shoot a 444 marlin in my tc encore(23" mgm barrel) with 300gr fn gc and 24.0gr of 2400/tuft of dacron and it goes about 3/4 - 1" at 100 yards(5 shots/bench). before i used dacron it would go 2 - 3" at 100 yards. (if you would take the "fliers" out, it would be 1 1/2 - 2"). when JES was finished with my win m94 in 35/30-30, i used 20.0gr of 2400 and a tuft of dacron with a 200gr fn gc. i didn't even do without dacron and i think it goes ok.......2 shots, move peep, 2 shots........
Certainly the powder position is one possibility, but what about feeding? I've been warned about single-loading many different mil-surps, as it can stress the extractor in controlled-feed systems; it would seem that single-loading could also lead to different positioning as the extractor snaps into place. Having said that, I've single-loaded both of my 91's without problems, and haven't really noticed a difference in accuracy (though I'd usually be using a larger charge of 4227.)