M1a SOCOM powders

I've just started reloading .308s for my Socom 16, however all of my reloading has been semi auto and magnum pistol. That has left me with an abundance of powders not really suited for rifle reloads, that being said, with a plethora loading data and information such as Steves page 8 and Quick Loads which match multiple powders for or all calibers is there any problem using powders such as IMR 4227. One of the things, without something like Quick Loads, the rifle data usually for a 20 to 24" barrel and the shorter 16" barrel could lend itself faster burning powders. Just curious, Bill

Are we talking jacketed or cast? It makes a difference.

The two phases of my handloading life; the time before QuickLoad and the time after it.
The best $150 I've ever spent on our hobby - answers to almost all handloading questions are there. :-/

There is very very little published data on IMR 4227 in .308 that aren't 'reduced loads' i.e. useful in a semi-auto.
But with Quickload, I solved that problem with ease. Just sayin' ...

Nicholst55, jacketed

Common powders for .308 are 4895 and actually 748, at least for J-words.

I've got two regular M1As, and use IMR 4895 for 174 gr. FMJ.

DG

IMR 4895 in my M1A.

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Originally Posted by Kestrel4k

The two phases of my handloading life; the time before QuickLoad and the time after it.
The best $150 I've ever spent on our hobby - answers to almost all handloading questions are there. :-/

There is very very little published data on IMR 4227 in .308 that aren't 'reduced loads' i.e. useful in a semi-auto.
But with Quickload, I solved that problem with ease. Just sayin' ...

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Yep Quick Load greatest thing since sliced bread !!

Getting some good performance in the Socom with AA2230 with the lighter bullets. The Socom can be a bit cranky and what works awesome in a regular M1A doesn't always work well in the Stubby gun. Ramshot TAC got a lot of good press but my gun did not like it. Your mileage will probably vary. My Socom has never been a tack driver but its always been good enough for hunting in close cover or horrible weather. I've killed several deer with it in cornfields or blizzards. The gun has some shortcomings, but its still one of my favorite rifles.

4895 or AA2520 have been my go-to powders in my National Match, but powders that are a bit faster seem to work better in that 16" barrel.

I use IMR 4064 and W748 in my M1A's with jacketed bullets ranging from 125 grains to 168 grains. I find that 4064 is pretty hard to beat.

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Originally Posted by just bill

Nicholst55, jacketed

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Ok, what weight of jacketed bullet?

What is the max range you expect to use it at?

The 16" barrel makes a difference as to which powder(s) can give optimum performance with specific bullets. The powder(s) and bullets that give optimum performance aren't necessarily the best for use in your 16" barrel.

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Originally Posted by Larry Gibson

Ok, what weight of jacketed bullet?

What is the max range you expect to use it at?

The 16" barrel makes a difference as to which powder(s) can give optimum performance with specific bullets. The powder(s) and bullets that give optimum performance aren't necessarily the best for use in your 16" barrel.

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Here is my starting data: .308 150 gr fmj 100 yd max. Powder IMR 4227.
I went to the IMR website and it appeared to give data for straight wall case bullets . What is the logical next step?

I'm no expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once. I've never seen IMR 4227 listed for service rifle data.
Check the service rifle data listed for .308 Win. on the Hodgdon site.
https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/rel...c=true&type=54
Then there is my old stand by source for service rifle for the M1 Garand and the M1a.
https://www.bearblain.com/Service%20...0Loadings.html
My advice for loading for the short barrel Socom, if velocity is a priority, would be to look at a faster burning powder from one of these two lists. The big concern here is not the length of the barrel, or maximum velocity @ 16", but maintaining the proper port pressure range at the gas port for the M1a. Too high of gas port pressure can and will damage the rifle and too low will cause short cycling of the bolt.
Here's some quick search reading on the subject. Proper care and feeding of your M1a is a must;
https://www.m14forum.com/threads/gas...he-m1a.484104/
https://www.jouster2.com/forums/show...port-pressure&
https://www.sierrabullets.com/reload...ervice-rifles/
https://www.rifleshootermag.com/edit...le-rifle/83672

Whether or not the pressure profile of 4227 is appropriate for an 308 M1a, I have no idea.
However, the illustration is from an older IMR powder guide showing IMR4227 w/ 2 different jacketed bullets.

Attachment 314075

When I had a TC Encore 15" 30-06, I found best velocities w/ same powders I used in 24" 30-06 w/ success. From this, my view was the Lyman manual advice about fast powders for rifle cartridges in SS Pistols was total bunk. I found 10% difference in vel by 9 inch shorter barrel in general, and as bullet weight increased the difference was less than light bullets. I4831, 220 Partition, 2260 fps w/ 15" 30-06 wasn't what I would call poor performance.

There is Phil Sharpe testing, and A Square manual testing that shows reduction in velocity w/ barrel reduction. This helps w/ an understanding of velocity loss.

Maybe other sources have pressure data w/ differing powders in a barrel length comparison, but I wouldn't be horribly eager to change a good load just because the barrel got shorter. Maybe w/ something gas operated there is a reason, but I didn't see it w/ the Encore.

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Originally Posted by fastdadio

I'm no expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once. I've never seen IMR 4227 listed for service rifle data.
Check the service rifle data listed for .308 Win. on the Hodgdon site.
https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/rel...c=true&type=54
Then there is my old stand by source for service rifle for the M1 Garand and the M1a.
https://www.bearblain.com/Service%20...0Loadings.html
My advice for loading for the short barrel Socom, if velocity is a priority, would be to look at a faster burning powder from one of these two lists. The big concern here is not the length of the barrel, or maximum velocity @ 16", but maintaining the proper port pressure range at the gas port for the M1a. Too high of gas port pressure can and will damage the rifle and too low will cause short cycling of the bolt.
Here's some quick search reading on the subject. Proper care and feeding of your M1a is a must;
https://www.m14forum.com/threads/gas...he-m1a.484104/
https://www.jouster2.com/forums/show...port-pressure&
https://www.sierrabullets.com/reload...ervice-rifles/
https://www.rifleshootermag.com/edit...le-rifle/83672

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That's really interesting, this morning when I visited the site for IMR 4227 the infotmation didn't go I to that much detail, very interesting, I loaded the information 3 times??????. My point was to be that powder/bullet info from the manufacturer was lacking. Go figure!

Thanks to all for the information it gives a wider choice other then the prescribed 24" barrel powders, Varget, 3031 and 4895. I just like a safe alternative.

Most guidelines for the M1A style rifles say no faster than 3031. I think 4227 is too fast - too sharp of a pressure curve. 3031, TAC, 2230/Exterminator, 748, BLC2. I had good accuracy with TAC, but I couldn't get the velocity I wanted in the Socom. I was able to get it with AA2230.

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Originally Posted by BadgerShooter

Most guidelines for the M1A style rifles say no faster than 3031. I think 4227 is too fast - too sharp of a pressure curve. 3031, TAC, 2230/Exterminator, 748, BLC2. I had good accuracy with TAC, but I couldn't get the velocity I wanted in the Socom. I was able to get it with AA2230.

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Interesting information