Like the title says... Does anybody sell 'em?
I'm shopping for 148gr HBWCs (yeah, you guys in that other thread that disappeared were right), and about to pull the trigger on Speers, but I'd rather have coated.
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Like the title says... Does anybody sell 'em?
I'm shopping for 148gr HBWCs (yeah, you guys in that other thread that disappeared were right), and about to pull the trigger on Speers, but I'd rather have coated.
Coated with what?
He probably wants powder coated...Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"Hi-Tek" or whatever they call it. You know, like "blue" bullets, or "black" bullets, or Federal's "Syntech."
It's all basically the same stuff, AFAIK...
It's easy to find coated 148gr DEWCs, but I'm having a helluva time finding HBWCs.
Having shot a truckload or two of Speer HBWC's and some of the Hornady HBWC's as well, I can say that you cannot do much better than those bullets.
I don't know what the lube is that Speer uses but it works fine. I can see no advantage in powder coating a HBWC. They are confined to low velocities due to their construction (high velocity runs the risk of separating the skirt and creating a barrel obstruction). I don't know what you would gain by powder coating.
Paying someone to cast Hollow Based Wadcutters (which is a more of an involved process that making solid WC's) and then powder coating them, would likely be cost prohibitive. In the end, simply buying the Speer will probably be a better route.
Midway sells the Speer 148 Gr HBWC bullets for $40/500 ($0.08 per bullet), I seriously doubt you can beat that price for a swaged and lubed HBWC.
The Hornady version is a bit more expensive and they use a different style lube but they also work well.
After I started casting my own solid wadcutters I stopped buying the swaged HBWC's. I find the solid WC's to be a bit more versatile because they can be shot at lower target velocities or driven faster if needed. The HBWC must be confined to the lower target velocities.
That's what I figured, but I thought I'd ask, first...Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder
Yes, I have some DEWCs on the way, and I'll start playing with those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder
I'm aiming for low-recoil target rounds, and a lot of those I see listed are using HBWCs instead of DEWCs, but I wonder whether it really matters?
Petrol & Powder has it right.
The only reason I don't shoot the factory hollow based wadcutters is I can't shoot well enough to make use of the difference in accuracy. I usually use Lyman 358091 or 358432 that I cast myself.
I thought there might be some advantage to HBWCs in pressure/velocity consistency (which has lately become the hobgoblin of my little mind).
If the only difference in HBWCs and DEWCs is supposed to be accuracy, then nevermind HBWCs... I'm usually plinking offhand at 7yds, and I don't need ultimate accuracy.
Since you have the same weight of lead inside the case, no matter which 148 grain wadcutter you use(provided they are both seated to the same depth), the pressure/velocity consistency should be the same. The hollow base may, maybe, give a bit more driving band area to help seal and stabilize the boolit. Given the low velocity involved, I don't think it will make much, if any, difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer
You statement about what you use them for also applies. At seven yards, you won't see any accuracy difference. Most of the increased accuracy potential for the hollow based wadcutter only comes into play at the longer distances.
I recommend reading these two links. The first is written by Ed Harris about the 38 special and accuracy. The second is a thread on this site. The first post goes into detail about the accuracy potential of standard solid based wadcutters.
https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharri...adcutterQA.htm
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-in-a-Model-27
If your passion is to become a top level target shooter, then by all means go full out and get every particle of accuracy you can from your ammunition.
If you want to shoot and get better, while having fun, use the solid based wadcutters you can cast your self and enjoy.
Sounds good!Quote:
Originally Posted by tazman
The reloading data I have spec'ed HBWCs, but what you're saying makes sense... I can't imagine bullet profile makes a big deal.
I like coated bullets because I'm trying to limit my (and my family's) lead exposure, and they sure do look cool!
If you are playing with HBWCs and want low recoil, I have found 2.2 grains of trail boss to be accurate and soft shooting, even in a lightweight snub. If you are dying for no bare lead, Berry's makes a plated HBWC. I an very fond of their plated DEWC. Seated to about 1.24" over 4 grains of HP38 it is very, very accurate. Maybe a bit snappy in a light revolver, but in a 4" 357 it is very soft. This is about the only revolver bullet I keep buying now that I cast.
Exactly... Hodgdon says 2.0 to 2.3gr of Trail Boss should get me 625-675fps.Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
I saw those, but they're kinda pricey...Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Bare lead isn't a deal-breaker — just something I'm trying to avoid.
I know that you have some DEWC boolits on the way. The light loads suggested will be fine for 7 yards.
The farther out you shoot the less well that slow boolit will work. More speed gives a more stable boolit since it is spinning faster.(This only applies to slower pistol rounds as a rule. Not necessarily to rifles).
I have found that I get better groups at a distance with the standard 38 special loadings. At close range, it doesn't matter. Nearly anything that clears the barrel will work there.
I suggest you test different charge weights and see which ones perform better at the different distances. You may find yourself loading light loads for short range and heavier loads for longer range.
Those DEWC boolits you have coming should work well with both light and heavy loads.
I'm loading for a 3" Ruger LCRx... It's a "kit gun" (or a "purse gun," if my wife or daughter have it), so 7yds is really plenty, and I'm way more interested in light recoil, rather than accuracy... I want them to shoot shoot shoot.
We might plink at 25yds (and I'll wind up shooting it at that distance to make sure the sights are adjusted correctly), and if I see keyholing, then I'll adjust accordingly.
I'm trying to put a 148gr WC in the stability calculator, but I dunno how long one is (much less, what its BC would be):
https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
Don't worry about it too much. Trust that the manufacturer know what twist is going to work for the widest range of loads and just go shoot it.
It sounds like you have a good plan in mind. Please let us know how it works out for you.
The other option for light recoil is a lighter bullet. 125 grain is readily available for 38. Lee also has mold out for a 105 grain SWC that I found does fine with some bullseye, at least to 15 yards.
2 to 2.3 grains of Trailboss won’t actually get you that speed. That is from a test barrel. Actual velocity in typical revolver length barrels will be lower.
I see no reason to want to avoid lead bullets. They have lubricant on them and a reputation for accuracy. As in target type accuracy. What is not to like? Any smoke from shooting is minor at low speed.
BC is in the 0.060-0.080 range depending upon type.
Bear Creek Supply has coated .38 148 gr. HBWC. I use these for bullseye competition and can attest to their accuracy. My load is either 2.5 gr. Titegroup or 2.7 gr. WST. They are coated with rosin/molybdenum. No barrel leading at any reasonable velocity.
https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/38spec148gr-hbwc