The next level of making PP boolits!

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08-27-2009, 06:47 PM
303Guy

The next level of making PP boolits!

pillardrill on Boolit Swaging, has inpired me to try out some new tricks.

Swaging the prime castings!

This one is a fired boolit, swaged and reformed and a hollow point with partially closed hole added!

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...y/MVC-248F.jpg

It is a two-diameter (if one looks carefully, the transition is visible).

A fired two-diameter swaged boolit with recovered patch (low velocity). The patch came off at the muzzle (or at least within a foot of it).

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...y/MVC-232F.jpg

This is the other side of it - it hit the catch medium cylinder going in.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...y/MVC-239F.jpg

And this is it re-formed.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...y/MVC-240F.jpg (Those defects aren't visible normally):mrgreen:

Other re-formed boolits.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...y/MVC-249F.jpg

The patched two-diameter boolit actually contacts the rifling leade when chambered. The bore ride section justs fits the bore at the breach end but cannot be inserted into the muzzle. As can be seen on the recovered patch, the rifling engages the bore-ride section of patch but does not impress into the casting.

Think this might work on the range?

I made a few extra bits for a push through sizer die I had made a while back (and had forgotten about).
08-27-2009, 07:06 PM
1874Sharps

303Guy,

Wahoo, very cool! Let us know how it works out at the range. Maybe now you will be able to use the same boolits for the next 30 years along with the same brass (just kidding)!
08-27-2009, 07:13 PM
303Guy

Hee hee! New meaning to recyling range lead!:mrgreen:

Say, does boolit alloy work harden? These things have quite a 'hard sounding' 'clink' to them when rolled together.
08-27-2009, 08:10 PM
1874Sharps

303Guy,

I do believe that lead alloy work hardens.
08-27-2009, 10:04 PM
montana_charlie

Quote:

Originally Posted by 303Guy

A fired two-diameter swaged boolit with recovered patch.

As can be seen on the recovered patch, the rifling engages the bore-ride section of patch but does not impress into the casting.

Patches? Patches! We don see no steenking patches!

CM
08-27-2009, 11:47 PM
303Guy

Quote:

Patches? Patches! We don see no steenking patches!

Oops! My bad - sorry! I have put in now.:mrgreen:

But here it is again.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...y/MVC-232F.jpg

I thought the patch remnants were rather interesting as most of the outer layer seems to have disintegrated and there is partial cutting through the base section second layer. There is no sign of land to lead contact on the boolit.

I think I have the shape I want now.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...y/MVC-251F.jpg

Now that thing has a largish hollow hidden in the nose.

Here it is patched.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...y/MVC-252F.jpg

I find this boolit profile patches best with a cig roller. Prolly a good idea 'cause the boolit is rather smooth and the cig roller wraps 'em real tight!

The only thing left for me to do now is load up a batch and range test them. Then I'll see if they actually work!
08-28-2009, 12:25 AM
barrabruce

Nice 303 guy looking good to me.
I think they'll got just fine.
08-28-2009, 02:10 PM
montana_charlie

The recovered patch would not please me at all, but our disciplines are very different.
Still, I think I would try patching just the rear half of that bullet...
CM
08-28-2009, 04:37 PM
303Guy

Quote:

The recovered patch would not please me at all ...

OK, the load was deliberately very light with the idea that the patch itself should survive and come off the boolit. (I've had some test patches stay on the boolit deep into the catch medium). Also, the boolit would be recoverable intact for examination. The fact that the patch was partially disintegrated seemed like a good thing to me. Although there was no rifling impressions on the bore-ride section, there were good rifling impressions on the patch section. How would you interpret the results?

I'm trying to get the basics right before I even start range testing. At this point I think I have the casting and patch diameter just right. The nose section lightly contacts the bore when chambered. Is that how it should be?

I could cover less nose with the patch but the nose section is way under bore size.

In the process of this test I discovered a mistake I made on my
test tube' mouth - it doesn't let the muzzle blast in properly! :groner:
I'll have to fix that before I can do a full power test. Even the light load was loud! Louder than the full power load should be.:!:
08-28-2009, 04:43 PM
1874Sharps

303Guy,

Wahoo, I think you are on to something! At higher pressures and velocities might not the boolit obturate a bit and cut the patch a bit better? Also, the alloy can be varied to promote more or less obturation. I think the pathway you are on will lead to success!
08-28-2009, 07:32 PM
montana_charlie

Quote:

Originally Posted by 303Guy

Although there was no rifling impressions on the bore-ride section, there were good rifling impressions on the patch section. How would you interpret the results?

I want to see rifling cuts than go from the leading edge of the patch clear to the point where it folds under the bullet's base.

Quote:

The nose section lightly contacts the bore when chambered. Is that how it should be?

Considering your ammunition is so fundamentally different from mine, I simply can't say 'how it should be'.

Quote:

I could cover less nose with the patch but the nose section is way under bore size.

I would not apply paper to a bullet surface that will never reach bore diameter, or larger, before leaving the muzzle. If a heavier charge will cause that, the 'long patch' may be fine.
But, I suspect no smokeless charge is going to accomplish it unless that's a real soft bullet.

I am (currently) adjusting the width of my own patches to get a full-length cut.
My 'bad ones' come much closer to that than yours, and they are still recovered in 'pieces' rather than 'shreds'.

I can't say that it will really matter. A target is the only way to know.

But, your long, light-weight, skinny bullet is much more prone to destabilization (than mine) from having a patch yanking on it.
I guess it comes down to how hard the yanking is...and how long it lasts.

CM
08-28-2009, 08:23 PM
303Guy

Thanks for that, montana_charlie.

Well, I have decided on a boolet weight (225gr - RN HP). I'll just have to cast and swage a batch, patch 'em and shoot 'em 'n see what happens.:Fire:
If they don't work well, I'll have something to go on for the next trial.

I'll also do a full-power 'test tube' trial to see if I can capture the paper fragments.
06-13-2017, 07:47 AM
MaxJon

Quote:

Originally Posted by 303Guy

Oops! My bad - sorry! I have put in now.:mrgreen:

But here it is again.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...y/MVC-232F.jpg

I thought the patch remnants were rather interesting as most of the outer layer seems to have disintegrated and there is partial cutting through the base section second layer. There is no sign of land to lead contact on the boolit.

I think I have the shape I want now.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...y/MVC-251F.jpg

Now that thing has a largish hollow hidden in the nose.

Here it is patched.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...y/MVC-252F.jpg

I find this boolit profile patches best with a cig roller. Prolly a good idea 'cause the boolit is rather smooth and the cig roller wraps 'em real tight!

The only thing left for me to do now is load up a batch and range test them. Then I'll see if they actually work!

Nice work! Exactly what i want to play with!!!
06-13-2017, 07:57 AM
Hickok

303guy, can you describe using cig roller. I been thinking about pp with some .30 cal boolits for .308.
06-13-2017, 09:28 AM
OverMax

I would like to think a typical patching for your boolit would shred at muzzle end. But I'm not sure your current patching will ever accommodate this boolits need. It appears the forward patch material isn't shred/ opening do to the rifling's light engraving observed. Maybe the trick in getting your swagged boolit to preform requires a patch that not only wraps but too fills in that stretch of void or undersize circumference.

"What your attempting to do/try is pretty darn cool three 0 three guy."
06-16-2017, 08:55 AM
centershot

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1874Sharps

303Guy,

I do believe that lead alloy work hardens.

Lead alloys do NOT work-harden, they soften.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chap...Metallurgy.htm
06-17-2017, 10:33 PM
longbow

I've tried the cigarette roller but found it easier to roll by hand.

Different strokes.

I don't patch much anymore but was for a while. .30 cal isn't bad to do especially when they're long like a 170 to 200 gr. .303 boolit. I did some 100 gr. and that was much more finicky. They weren't terribly accurate either. I think too much jump to the rifling. I got round holes but big groups.

Longbow