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Anyone ever do a head to head test with these three ? I mean getting a good shooting load same bullet same powder ect just different boolit treatments.
Edit : I referring to accuracy testing in rifles. 50yd 100 yd distance don't really matter honestly that curious if anyone did I legit test trying to see which method is more ... accuracy prone , for lack of a better word
The question is too general.
What "works" for plinking pistol loads, may not be the same as the requirements for 2600 fps rifle loads.
When I see guys like Gibson or Outpost moving away from traditional lubes, I might try them; but even then, it is unlikely. In my case, lead bullets are used in pistol calibers (9mm, .38/.357, .40 and .45) and the loads I have work. I use a Star, so going to one of the modern methods reduces productivity dramatically unless I find a bullet that does not require sizing. The bit of smoke I get from traditional lube is not a factor, and neither is having "pretty" bullets. Others think differently.
I know Gibson has tested PC'ed rifle bullets and has not reported great results. That "closed the book" for me.
I would think that the variables between conventional lubricated bullets and powder coated bullets would affect your testing in a negative manner. First off, when powder coating, you actually change the dimensions of the cast bullet by adding to the nose diameter and length of the bullet. Then there is the different amount of friction down the barrel between the two types of bullet surface.
If nothing else, that seems to be a pretty good reason to NOT expect the same powder charges to behave the same.
In my 38 revolver at 15 yards, a lee 358-158-swc will cut a hole the size of a golfball. Same load, only pc'd not even close to equal. Tried several batches, different days, even back and forth every other cylinder and every other bullet on 2 targets. Poi is different and group size.
Wanted it to get away from the alox and die maintenance.
My experience shows you have to treat the PC bullets and conventionally lubed bullets differently.
I was looking to duplicate, for practice, my factory carry load for my Ruger LCR-3 in 38special. My carry load is a 130gr Jacketed bullet that chrono's at 875 fps out of my gun.
I cast the Lee 125 RF (128gr in my alloy) and size to .358".
With conventional lube it takes 6.1 gr. of Power Pistol to give me an average velocity of 868 fps.
With Smoke's PC sized to .358" it takes 5.7gr of Power Pistol to give me an average velocity of 870 fps.
Accuracy is approximately the same with a slight edge going to the powder coated bullets. Both loads suit my purposes.
Both loads are close enough to the factory carry load in point of impact for the intended use.
My conclusions based on this is you have to treat the PC bullets differently than the lubed bullets and work up loads for your purposes accordingly. I like the PC.
I did compare bullets in my .308. Once I 'figured out' the casting and PC process, the PC bullets had the same accuracy as conventional lubes. These were with gas checked bullets at vel around 1800fps.
Never tried HiTek but I suspect it will give same results.
well; i belong to the cast bullet association. from which i get a newsletter. the CBA holds sanctioned cast bullet matches. i have yet to see anyone using anything other that REAL bullet lube in any of the matches. while i am writing this it occured to me that the matches may require lubed bullets only, i don't know; but i will always use bullet lube only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misery-Whip
I believe if you worked up a load for PC only your results would improve. I like PC but had to start load development all over again because they behave very differently than conventional lube. Worth the effort to me though.
If PC had come out 18 years ago when I was struggling with undersize Lyman molds and custom mold makers were a dream I would have been all over it but for me, PC missed the boat. LOL
I have a plain base mold for my 6.8spc. Running 2000fps with hi-tec was an accuracy disaster. The pc was much better. I suspect my alloy not quit upto the pressures, but pc only in my next tests.
In my full power 10 loads in a stock g20sf, pc & hitek offer about the same accuracy, much better than i got with the sane bullet lubed.
I try to keep up with what folks are shooting at CBA matches. The match results show a very complete description of bullets and lube used. I have noticed a couple of PC users in different parts of the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by porthos
FWIW, the CBA rules only state that the bullet must be cast, as opposed to swaged. Don't remember if it specifies a lead alloy or not.
Only 'lube' I tried were BLL, LLA and Mazzola oil (worked really well!). Used HiTek for pistol, fine but too much work for me. Didn't work in 30 cal. rifle. Ihad problems cooking too long so I could heat treat the alloy. PC works for all. BLL coated appeared to degrade PC when I tried in rifle. No leading but lower fps. BLL by itself worked fine for 30 cal slower rifle loads.
I think something in the BLL attacks the polymer. Maybe the liquid floor wax has some solvent in it that causes the problem.
well, charlie just stated above that there is NO CBA rule against using PC bullets. yet 98% of the competition shooters use conventional lubed bullets. you do the math, duh!
Sounds like some folks are set in their ways, or have spent so much time perfecting a cast lubed bullet they dont feel like changingQuote:
Originally Posted by porthos
Mal Paso nailed it in reference to undersized bullets. Is puffing up with PC the do all answer? Surely not, but it will at least allow some experimentation with sizes needed before ordering a custom mold. Increasing bullet diameter with PC is reliable/consistent than bumping, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal Paso
Yes, I like to have the bullets remain pretty much the way I cast them. With PC it depends upon the thickness of the coating, and from what other folks say, different powders give some thickness variation. Set in my ways, Heck yes, and like it that way. I have no problem with others trying different things if that is what trips their trigger. Surely not going to try to talk down to them or change their ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by TerkyJerky
I've used LLA for decades and still do sometimes. I also use the shake and bake PC. I've been happy with both accuracy wise, the only tiny advantage to PC is that pocket lint doesn't stick to them......
I just shot a 2" 5 shot group with Lee PC'd 135gr bullets from my 6.8 AR. 5 shots at 40 yards went into 3/4"- I don't think that I'll mess with lube on that one.
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