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Hey, I'm being sent to Germany, and am curious if there are any restrictions or legal hurdles to casting in Germany. Anyone know if there are environmental regs to deal with or other hassles? I'm in contact with a Master Sergeant in my new unit who is helping me figure out the rules and laws regarding owning firearms there, but he's not a caster, so he has no ideas there. Anyone live in Germany, or have lived there in the past?
From 20 years ago... Firearms could be owned and purchased over there pending the commander's approval for each purchase. If you showed up in country strapped, it was basically a formality during the inprocessing steps. MWR ran the Rod & Gun program over there and had gun stores that sold firearms, powder jullets and primers and factory ammo. There was some reloading stuff available but it was hit and miss based on some guberment goober who was running a retail business with no idea of reloading. You really need to tell us where your getting stationed at. The bigger troop concentrations usually had better facilities to include ranges and some had indoor facilities.
A couple of pre PCS Customs/ATF stuff for firearms going over is you'll want to fill out paperwork showing that they were purchased here in the U.S. so you don't have to go through the hassle of filling out importation paperwork. You will not be able to purchase any pistols with a barrel less that 4" over there since it is not for sporting use. From my understanding, the ATF won't approve the importation either so, fill out a U.S. Customs form 4457 I believe or the ATF might have something.
Once you get to yiur duty station, go to a local firearms and hunting store and get the lay of the land. Join a local range that hopefully has an indoor range for winter use. Predominately, the major of the shooting over there is target. I joined one club near Karlsrhue that was basically a bullseye club. Alot of 22RF and 32CF semi auto match guns. They cast and reload and ammo is available on the local economy but you'd rather purchase it on base $$$. They also had a few rifle lanes for like 100m if I recall. Bring a 22 target rifle if ya have one. I wish I got the hance to shoot running bore over there but on my second tour I was just working too much 60-80 hrs a week or TDY.
Hunting and fishing are also options. Alot of communities have stocked ponds for trout. Basically fish by the kilo, what ya hook is what ya keep, no snag n release. Hunting classes are usually offerred through the Rod and Gun and teach the traditional German structured hunting. This ain't you n yo boy Bubba grabbin a 12 rack, cruising the back roads and pop what ya see. Basically driven hunts on land owners land or state land with a game warden present. They have a pre-safety meeting, annouce the quarry they are after and ideal totals for the day and who are drivers and gunners ect.... Also, you don't get to keep the game unless it is offerred to you. You need to be kinda political as it's and invatation only type of thing so the more folks you know at the local gun clubs, the better your chances/opertunities.
As far as reloading, sometimes you had to do some race tracking to the different comunities to get the powders and primers that you needed or source them locally on the economy. I generally loaded all pistol ammo over there, 9mm, 38/357, 44 and 45 ACP. I mail ordered an RCBS Rock Chucker starters kit from Cabelas and cases of rem/win bulk bullets from midway and midsouth and went at it. 44 mag and 45 acp bullets from Speer were available locally at a great price along with powder and primers. All my brass came from either factory ammo, SL or Midway. After I got my wheel under me Dillon had just come out with the 550 so I went that route.
If you make major purchases off base, you can get the local sales tax waived by applying for a waiver on base and take it with you when you make the purchase.
Enjoy yourself over there and get out and mix with the local people. Enjoy a couple of hoffbraus for us who are stuck here.
USAFrox, In Germany they will joke that you need a license to have a license.... But I do know that reloading and casting is possible. I believe they limit what you can keep on hand, but am not sure. I have a retired colleague that was a big caster / reloader / shooter / hunter / gun crafter (At least he made a really nice flint-lock). So, I know it is legal with the correct permission.
Thank you for your service and I hope you have some fun while you are at it!
Thank you for the responses so far. I'm going to Darmstadt for work, but based out of Wiesbaden, since I understand Darmstadt has no real facilities. Both are near Frankfurt, from what it appears on the map. The Master Sergeant I've been talking to has told me all the ridiculous things you have to do just to be able to buy a gun (license to get a license is no joke!), which starts with a 2 minth class (3 nights per week, 3 hours per night) class in order to get your hunting license. You have to have the hunting license to be allowed to buy a gun. Class is about $200, he said. To be allowed to take the class, you have to be a member of a range there, which is about $50 per year. Then you have to have a permit to buy the gun, which is $60, if I remember right. Then you have to maintain liability insurance to be allowed to own a gun, which is another $60 per year. You also have to maintain your firearms in a Euro-spec safe, which starts at another $200. Oh, and the hunting license, whuch is about $50 per year. You have to maintain your hunting license to be allowed to keep your guns. I miss my 2nd Amendment already!
Oh, and apparently we're no longer allowed to bring any guns over there. Germany doesn't allow any "importation" of firearms. And while I can buy a "military type" gun over there, thanks to Obama, I can't bring it back here with me when I come back. So no Lugers or Garands, etc, because they'd not be alowed back to the US with me. What a waste. I hear the BATFE makes it a nightmare to import any firearms back into the US, even if they ARE allowed.
Pain in my butt.
Try this guy...
https://www.youtube.com/user/wiederladerTv
I've talked with him via comments on his You Tube channel…seems like a nice enough fella…he is into all the stuff we do here.
I lived in Germany during the late 70's when there were 48 Rod & Gun Clubs in Europe. I believe there may be one left and it's in Vogelweh near Ramstein. The gun situation really sucks in Germany as we were sold out several years ago with the rewriting of the SOFA agreement allowing Germany to control the weapons ownership of US personnel. I lived in Darmstadt up to about a year before they closed the facilities there except for the one you may be talking about just a few miles outside the city. I also worked in Wiesbaden while they were preparing for USAREUR Hq's to move there from Heidelberg. They have greatly improved the facilities in Wiesbaden for the larger community. In Darmstadt there is a great shooting store called Frankonia and if you buy anything don't forget to get the letters so you can get your German sales tax back at the time of purchase which used to be 17% but I think had gone up to around 21% by now. Regarding reloading you have to take a reloading class which is nothing more than a safety class but you have to have the card in order to buy primers and powder. You will be restricted to how much powder you buy and you will get sticker shock when yo see the prices. If you use more than your allocation you can petition the German government as to why you need more and show why you need additional powder. The membership to a German shooting club is not that expensive and is a lot of great fun. They shoot a lot of air rifles there as there are not many restrictions on those and they have some mighty good ones. Casting is fine and I used the regular routes of scrounging tire weights from tire shops and the scrap yards are not to bad either. As far a ownership you must store your safe in a non occupied room with you having the only key to the room. If you do buy any firearms and want to bring them back you have to submit a ATF form 6 the blue one for military personnel. Once you receive the approval from the ATF it is good for 6 months. You can then mail your long guns back via USPS registered mail with a copy of the approved ATF Form 6 and your PCS orders bringing you back to the US. Any handguns have yo be hand carried back in checked luggage. When you do your ATF Forms make each firearm on a separate form or they have to all be shipped at one time together. You used to be able to bring 3 long guns back with no paperwork but the ATF Form makes it a bit easier. I hope this has helped a bit but rules there seem to change quite frequently so check with the Provost Marshalls office in Wiesbaden to get the latest. If I can be of further ASSISTANCE LET MEKNOW.
Gary
Thank you! That is a lot of good information!
I lived in Germany for several years and can attest to the information that has been provided here as being accurate and a good set of guidelines. The network of rod & gun clubs still in existence are a shadow of what used to be. I belonged to the Ramstein/Vogelweh one and two German clubs. I casted and reloaded. No problem finding lead. Some of the rules regarding purchase of powder have apparently changed with time as well as where firearms are stored/kept. Membership in German clubs is not expensive and they have an excellent network of competition. As previously indicated it would be a good idea to check with the base Provost to get the latest updates and other info regarding purchase and registration plus other relevant data. There is a highly organized program for hunting and fishing and it is strictly monitored by the German system. LLS
Thank you again, one and all for the info. As hard as it is to actually get guns, I figured that there must be crazy restrictions on casting and reloading as well. This at least puts my mind at ease in that respect.
If you get to Wiesbaden be sure to look up Idstein.
Yes it is back in the boonies and they still speak their ancient language (not German) but it was a nice quiet town when I visited years ago.
Hello guys
I am a german and I can tell you bullet casting is really uncommon here, some muzzle loader shooters do this but only when they don't get the right caliber bullets. I personally know no one (except myself) casting bullets.