Antique Air Rifle

Has anyone thought of making something on the lines of this? Maybe in .45 cal. For ease, single shot muzzle loader.

Not that I don't already have a project. But you need one to think about while working on another.

Attachment 218445

It just has classic lines. The history of the air rife is as long and intricate as the powder burning rifle.
The Girandoni air rifle carried by Lewis and Clark on their voyage of discovery was really neat. Breech loading,
20 shot magazine, interchangeable air cylinders.

Yes, I have wanted to do that for many years now. Just can't get started! Someone in South Carolina was going to produce enough a small run and I was going to get involved but nothing came of it. They are fascinating rifles, believe the Lewis and Clark rifle was a .36, but then memory is unreliable.
The ball reservoir seems a better choice than the butt stock type, having that hi pressure vessel beside my head would be spooky! If you get started, please start a build thread.

T.J.'s has been making barrels for the air gun guys. You might get him to give you a few names of builders. 859-635- 5560

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Originally Posted by Lostinidaho

But you need one to think about while working on another.

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I know how it is.

I think the sphere reservoirs were often of copper, and I would guess that they were thick, made of two hemispheres with an interlocking flange, and silver soldered together. I believe they had a valve so that they could be carried separately when full, and interchanged. If I'm wrong, they surely could nowadays.

Scuba diving pony cylinders, the small ones intended to get a diver out of trouble, might be worth looking at. They are mostly 3 litres, which is a bit big, but there may be smaller ones. They must surely be thick enough to cut of the two hemispherical ends and weld them together, making a sphere. That would take VERY good welding, and overpressure testing. But what kind of reservoir at this pressure doesn't? Scuba cylinders have to be tested periodically, as compression can promote condensation on the inside. I should think a dive shop could test it, if the fitting is the same.

I have been at my mother's and aunt's home preping them for spring. So except for dreaming and a little research on the smart phone, I haven't been able to do much research.

I have learned that paintball gun tanks run on about 800 psi. So a tank is already made.

From some DIY air gun and paint ball guns they use a qev valve. But all I can find are 150psi. Ehich seems a little low, psi wise.

So like I said this is a project in the dreaming stage.

I am looking for all kinds of ideas. Even if they are dead ends.

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L. Wesley’s Air Guns and Air Pistols has a chapter on the old pneumatic reservoir guns and air canes. He said they operated at pressures of 550psi or so, so your paintball air reservoir ought to be about right.

A thin layer of grease was always used inside the reservoir, which trapped any dust particles that might be pumped into the chamber with the air, and kept them out of the valve mechanism. He filled a few of his antiques with nitrogen, air (from a tank) and CO2, and fired them (sometimes with spectacular results), but cautioned against filling them with oxygen, for reasons that should be obvious. Today’s SCUBA or instrument air would be the way to go, I would imagine.

He of course always pressure tested the old reservoirs before trying any of the guns for real. Many were soldered sheet copper, sometimes with leather coverings.

Horn was the old material judged to be best for valve seats. Wesley said he found a modern plastic which was superior and described how he lapped the seat in to air tightness.

Mr. Wesley was obviously an air gun crank of the purest ray serene, and a very good writer. The book was published in 1955, but I think there is a newer edition out. It’s definitely worth finding a copy, just to have and read.

Thanks for the heads up on the book. I will search it out. It should be a good read no matter what happens.

I did find a valve that might work. Pressure tested to 2750 psi

Attachment 218713

The old originals did not operate at the pressures we are used to now. That 550psi sounds right. The hand pumps they had could not reach any higher. From memory, co2 tanks are good to 750psi, and that will make a 36 or larger preform well. If you are looking to run HPA then thats another world and paintball suppliers can get you there. Interesting thread!

So I am easily distracted. I was supposed to be mowing the lawn... but you know how that goes.

So I took my .36 cal ML barrel, took out the breech plug. Put in the shooting vise. and using my air compressor (120 psi), I shot a RB ,no patch. It shot the width of my property ( about 150 ft). Hit the wood fence with a loud whack. I tried to get a speed with a chronograph. But no measurement recorded. Tried twice. Look like about a 6 inch drop. Patched ball only went about 75 feet.

I thought that was pretty good with only 120 lbs pressure.

The modern PCP rife are operating at 3000 psi or better. Lewis and Clarks expedition had a 50 cal air rifle on it. They supposedly took small and medium sized game with it and used it to impress and amaze the Indians encountered. I read some where it was a half day to recharge it with the hand pump.

The Airforce Txan bib bore launches a 45 cal 405 grn bullet at around 1000fps making it a decent rifle for hogs deer and like game. Ive seen videos of 400-600 yard hits with them.

The rifle if set up right could be charged from a pony tank instead of a pump. A small scuba bottle or transfer tank at 4000 psi would offer a lot of shooting do to the added volume of the fill tank over the rifles tank.

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Originally Posted by Lostinidaho

So I am easily distracted. I was supposed to be mowing the lawn... but you know how that goes.

So I took my .36 cal ML barrel, took out the breech plug. Put in the shooting vise. and using my air compressor (120 psi), I shot a RB ,no patch. It shot the width of my property ( about 150 ft). Hit the wood fence with a loud whack. I tried to get a speed with a chronograph. But no measurement recorded. Tried twice. Look like about a 6 inch drop. Patched ball only went about 75 feet.

I thought that was pretty good with only 120 lbs pressure.

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Lawns are overrated. I like them best when they are long enough to see gusts of wind moving across them.

I think it would give less than 120psi pressure until there was more resistance than a bullet would give. The usual mechanism was a hammer to open a spring-loaded valve. When enough air at reservoir pressure had passed through for the pressure behind the bullet to be about equal to that in the reservoir, the spring closed the valve.

The fine tuning would be in the strength of the spring and the size of the cavity between bullet and valve, to give the maximum performance without wasting air by excessive terminal pressure.

You've got what in filling stations used to be free air, and building up maximum pressure is your main concern. A simpler method, at least for use with your compressor in a static situation, would be to clamp a disc of some resistant material in place behind the bullet. When the pressure has built up enough to rupture it, the bullet sets off on its way. It could be copper, aluminium or plastic. The Hastings 12ga rifled shotgun blank sounds interesting...

So I bought the valve I hope will work. This is going to be a slow build up. First I have to make a adapter to go between the valve and the barrel. I have a friend who has an air compressor that goes up to about 200 psi. I will try that first. To see it how it shoots.

Attachment 220842

Then I think I will go into the gas supply. Tanks, regulators, etc

Then trigger mechanism

Then stocking

I up for any suggestion or advice.

Made some progress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siaY-cLovUs

Whats your thoughts?

Interesting bit of home made tech you got going there.

The trigger system of the power washer is rather generous with your CO2 supply.

Got me wondering how it does with water and the power washer pump for propellent.

Take care I believe some of those Original ball reservoir air guns Blew up with disastrous results.

There used to be plenty of 4 stage 4000 psi compressors about,used by the phone companies for air break switchgear.....I have an eye on an IR, a small ,air cooled unit ,with about a 5hp /3ph motor on it.....I already have a bigger unit ,20 hp,set up with a engine replacing the electric motor......Dunno how many people tell me its dangerous......which it is for breathing air,not airgun air.Its 4500psi rated...You can use very small bore black nylon brake tube for very high pressure,and the plan is to have a small cylindrical resorvoir in the butt,enough for a couple of shots,fed by the compressor via the plastic line.

More testing on Saturday.

Achieved a little over 625 fps using a lube wad and round ball (6 shot avg)

Using a cast round nose or wad cutter (9mm) and a vegi-wad, got over 640 fps (3 shot avg). The fastest speed was from a PC-cast bullet. Just a drop of neatsfoot oil on the wad.

If I were to try to make such an air rifle I think I'd most likely try to figure out a way to attach my air supply remotely. What I mean is that I'd try to set up my air supply so as to be able to carry it in my back pack with a high pressure air hose running from my back pack to the butt of the rifle or something like that. This way I could utilize one of the smaller "Buddy-Bottles" of air and still retain the clean lines that this style of rifle was known for. Heck, if you did that you could even utilize an inline regulator to get the same bursts of high pressure air with each shot.

Just thinking out loud.

HollowPoint

That's the current plan. CO2 bottles are quite heavy