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j23
12-05-2010, 04:56 PM
Ok.. I just got home from a local gun show, and took a chance with some extra money I had set aside for something else..

I came home with a Stevens 44, stock and action, sans barrel and forearm. The buttplate is silver and the action has turned a patina, but no rust. The action is TIGHT.. and locks up with an authortive feel and sound. The half cock notch is solid, and the trigger feels good.. to summize, I bought an all orginal, extremely solid little Stevens 44 action with the stock and orginal cresent buttplate for 300.00.

So here's my question...

A gunsmith friend of mine always told me that if I could find a centerfire stevens, he had a MINT 32-40 octagon barrel he would screw on it... a forearm is easy to find.

I dont know if I have a centerfire or rimfire breech block!!!

Without telling him what I was looking for specifically, the seller offered that the action was a centerfire, but the more I look at it as I'm home, it certainly looks like a rimfire, but then, Im not sure what Im looking for. The extractor is PRETTY SMALL to fit a centerfire rim, but who knows.. can anyone givce me a definative description or provide some photos of the difference? Ive tryed google for the last hour with no results.

Thanks,
Joe

Reg
12-05-2010, 05:22 PM
The Stevens 44 is one neat old action but sorry to say its not a very strong one. Generally you can get by with smokeless loads but only in the smaller calibers and then not with anything that might be considered a hot load. They were made in 32-40 but designed only for the black powder loads. A modern smokeless load in 32-40 is just too hot for that old of a action design. Also the factory made 32-40's had a extra locking lip on the front of the hammer that helped support the breech block.
None of the 44's had a big extractor and if in doubt, let your gunsmith look to see if its a rim or center fire action. If rim fire, they make very accurate target type rifles in .22 RF and also make excellent .22 Mags.
If center fire, you can re barrel ( must reduce the firing pin dia. as well ) to such as 25-20 Win or 32-20 , both with moderate smokeless loads. There is a lot of intrest now in making rifles in 32 S&W long and these make great actions for such. Have seen several in .38 Spl. and these worked well also. The 32 Mag might be pushing things a bit.
Best to keep pressurers down to about 28.000 or less and then with a shell that dosn't have too big of a head dia.
Neat actions but don't push them, they tend to push back.
Good luck

Reg :coffee:

skeettx
12-05-2010, 05:34 PM
Easy, take a picture of the block (closed and through the action), we will tell you.

We have and shoot a 32-40 and a 38-55 on 44 actions, they are NOT as strong as some action
but can be shot very safetly if you load properly for this action strength.
Mike

j23
12-05-2010, 06:10 PM
Ok, here are some photos... rimfire or centerfire. ...if you need anymore for clarification, let me know.. also, on the front of the action, as if you are looking at the action from the front, where the barrel would thread in, it says "44" in the lower left, and "0" in the lower right? 44 obviously means it's a Stevens 44. Any idea about the 0?

Thanks again,
Joe

j23
12-05-2010, 06:29 PM
...If the action is a centerfire, my other caliber choice, as Skeettx pointed out, was 32 S&W long.. but the only problem I see there is where to pick up an Octagonal barrel blank in the necessary .312" diameter for that caliber. I can find them all day long in .32 caliber.. and probably .308 caliber, but Im not so sure about .312". Or am I wrong about the .32 S&W's bore diameter?

Bret4207
12-05-2010, 06:33 PM
Looks like a RF to me. That'd make a lovely 22 mag. I had on once, got away from me somehow.

j23
12-05-2010, 06:48 PM
Well, I guess I gambled and lost.. I'm not much really interested in a rimfire, especially one costing as much as I would have wrapped up in this one when I'm done; I can't justify owning a thousand dollar rimfire rifle, especially as I already own about five rimfires that I don't use.. so I guess on Gunbroker she goes. ...either the guy that sold it to me had no earthly idea of what he was talking about, or he purposely mislabeled it as a centerfire.

Thanks anyhow guys, I'v never had much luck gambling, I guess I'll never learn.

Joe

j23
12-05-2010, 07:24 PM
Ive been doing some looking, and indeed the firing pin seems to contact the rim, or where the rim would seat in the extractor groove, however, if you look, and definatly in person, the firing pin in dead center on the bore of the threaded barrel shank hole.. it almost appears that the firing pin in centered, and the extractor sits up too high. I placed an empty rimfire case in the extractor groove and tried to hold it plub, and it sits higher than the centerline of the 'bore,' if you will. Anyone?

Bent Ramrod
12-05-2010, 09:51 PM
The 44's pretty nearly always had "0" and "44" on the action faces. If in higher grades, they might have a "45," etc.

The original Stevens barrels screwed on by hand and were kept in place by a set screw on the bottom of the action forward of the lever. This was their takedown feature. You could take your firing pin out, have your friend screw the barrel on a few turns and look down the barrel to see if the light from the breech is centered in the bore. It does look like a rimfire to me, though. It's the "wide central extractor" version, if you want to put some Stevens collector jargon into your GB description.:?

I've seen the blocks dovetailed across the breech and fitted with a plate and redrilled for a smaller, or differently located (or both) firing pin hole. But that would be a lot of extra money to put into the rifle, unless you did the work yourself.

Bret4207
12-06-2010, 08:33 AM
It still looks like a RF to me, but take a good look at the breech block face and see if you can see the outline of the case head. There's often a shiny circle where it sits. Maybe polish it a bit with some steel wool. If it's there at all you'll be able to tell if it's RF or CF.

BTW- there are 44 breech blocks of both types sold on the auction sites pretty often for not too much money.

excess650
12-06-2010, 09:52 AM
I have one that WAS 32rf. With a rough bore and no ammo, a 32rf is pretty useles, so the block was converted to CF and the barrel rebored/rechambered to 38Spl. I had envisioned using a 357Max reamer and marking it 38XL for BP loads, but it appeared that loaded rounds wouldn't clear the hammer

BTW, 32 H&R Mag factory pressures are similar to 38Spl +P. Had mine been a 22rf or 25rf with a bad bore, it would have been relined back to .22LR. 32-20 would be a great choice for a Stevens 44.

j23
12-06-2010, 11:12 AM
I keep hearing and reading about people (probably 'smiths) converting a rimfire breech block to centerfire, and I understand the process involved; redrilling the firing pin hole to the proper angle and bushing the pin.

What I dont understand is where are all of these people getting this modification done at? I must have spent three hours on google searching for someone to perform such a modification to no avail.

Does anyone know who does that kind of work, and the price? Does anyone here do it, and want to take on the project?

2Tite
12-06-2010, 01:36 PM
You might try Taylor Machine's web site. The gunsmiths name is John Taylor and he does these conversions and the required barrel work. He is well know on the ASSRA website for good work.

Wayne Smith
12-06-2010, 01:57 PM
John is pretty well known here, too. Just go down to The Barrel Works under Gunsmithing and read.

j23
12-06-2010, 11:48 PM
2Tite and Wayne.... hey, thanks for the John Taylor suggestion. I called him a little earlier and he just got back to me an hour or so ago; what a great guy! Not only are his prices and his turn around time reasonable, but he offers options and wisdom to boot, making some suggestions on what I can, and can't do with my project. A mere $80 to switch that breech block from rim- to centerfire, and in only two months. That's fantastic, and JUST what I was looking for. ..and from what Ive read on this and a couple other boards, his work is top notch. Thanks again guys, I may be able to salvage this project after all.

skeettx
12-07-2010, 04:25 PM
Yeee Hawww
Great News
Mike

j23
01-03-2011, 07:06 PM
UPDATE on my 44...

I took the Stevens over to my gunsmith buddy the other day.. he so happened to have a old, Stevens 44 barrel (half round half octagon) with a patina finish with no rust (matches my receiver perfectly!) but has a sewer pipe bore chambered in 22lr. Threaded right up; he told me in the "interest of science" he was going to try something. So he chucks this barrel up in the lathe and took a thousand off to index the extractor with the groove, slapped on a [cracked] old 44 forearm, pulled the bullet and powder out of a 22lr, chambered it, it fired, and extracted. He smiled and handed it back to me. Who the hell has old Stevens 44 parts laying around their shop!?! This guy apparently. ..and that's why I love my 'smith. He told me the barrel and forearm were on him... so we checked out the Brownells catalog, and hes going to order a liner for the barrel, reline it (22lr,) match chamber it, and reblue it. Though I need to figure out what finish to put on the receiver, as he says he can reblue it, but its anyone's guess what color it will turn out (something about cast metal!?) He said the stock that's on it is oil soaked and shot. So I found a reproduction of a Stevens 44 stock set online, semi finished but inletted. My 'smith does INCREDIBLE work, so this thing ought to turn out to be one hell of a gorgeous squirrel killer.

SO... heres an opinion question... He said we could blue the receiver and see what happens. He could blue everything and parkerize the receiver which will be a dull grey, or I could send the receiver out to be recased (expensive, and adds lots of additional time). Thoughts please??

firefly1957
01-03-2011, 08:02 PM
I Browned mine but that formula is no longer available (Plumb Brown containing mercury chloride).
You might consider having it nickeled I have no idea the cost on that.

Bent Ramrod
01-03-2011, 11:07 PM
The hot caustic blue treatment generally turns cast receivers and levers a garish purple. A regular rust blue job will turn the receiver and lever black; at least it did on mine. Some people claim to have the technique to get a blue highlight to the black. You might ask your gunsmith if he knows someone who rust blues double shotgun barrels. If you did the polishing yourself, it shouldn't be too expensive.

gnoahhh
01-04-2011, 12:07 AM
If it were mine I would consider hand filing/polishing the receiver (to keep the edges crisp) then bead blast it and wax it for a French Gray look. Rust blue the barrel and color case harden the lever, varnish the wood and mount a period scope on it. Just my thoughts on how I would treat it.

Whatever you do, be careful. You just might find yourself doing a LOT of rimfire shooting when it's done!

runfiverun
01-04-2011, 12:54 AM
i'd case harden the reciever,and hammer.

edsmith
01-04-2011, 12:58 AM
Duracote

geargnasher
01-04-2011, 01:27 AM
I'll relate some of my recent experiences with a similar project.

First, DON'T use any kind of phosphate blue, it is likely to severely pit the metal as it will eat out any impurites in the old steel. I'd stick with a nice rust blue or even brown it. Case hardening would be the best IMO, I colored my #4 remington receiver very carefully with a torch.

I'd get my liner from TJ's Liners instead of Brownell's, his are much better quality and the way he packages them there's no chance of them getting bent, not so with Brownell's. TJ's are about twice as much (.$2.60 and inch IIRC for .310" .22cal 1:16 twist rate).

You will need a liner drill, and I don't think Brownell's sells one for a .22 liner that is 12" long, just the short one that has to have an extension made and soldered on to it. That is a job for a machinist or gunsmith who has a lathe. Maybe some other supplier makes a .3125" (5/16") liner drill that is a full 12" long. I was drilling out a .32 rimfire for a .22 liner so I used a regular, non-piloted 12"X5/16" HSS bit from Snap On since all I was doing was removing what was left of the lands from the bore, but redrilling .22 bores requires a drill with a bore-sized pilot.

Don't get a match reamer unless you have a bolt-action or some other sort of action that cams closed. Match chambers tend to engrave the bullet and are difficult to unload without firing, and are difficult to get the round chambered in the first place. A finish reamer by itself is all you need.

Check out my thread "relining a .32 rimfire" in the barrel works sub-forum for some tips from John Taylor on how to hide the muzzle seam, plus my relining experiences with pics.

One more thing, if you haven't already, check out the PDF on the Brownell's site about installing barrel liners, tons of great info in a "how-to" format.

Good luck!

Gear

Bret4207
01-04-2011, 08:10 AM
Finish is a tough choice. Color case hardening is correct, but I have no clue what it costs. Plus, those colors fade over time. My memory (not very reliable) says there were formulas for coloring that didn't involve actual case hardening, but where I saw that is a mystery. Seems like it was a commercial concoction many years back.

My 44 wears it's very faded original finish. Looks fine to me. If your going to make this a show piece, do it right.

excess650
01-04-2011, 08:37 AM
Stevens used a different process for CC compared to other companies. Most used the bone and charcoal method, and that is what you would find on old Winchesters, Ballards, Marlins, and Remington's. Stevens dipped their receivers in molten arsenic to achieve their tiger stripe pattern.

CPA Corp in Pa might tell you who to send the receiver to for the correct CC type. There are several other companies that do bone and charcoal if you decide to go that route.

Hot salts bath blue will be spotty and purplish at best. Rust blue should work if you just want a satin, blue-black receiver. It is definitely what I would want on the outside of the barrel.

If and when you disassemble the receiver, be aware that the "screws" aren't as they might seem. Those on the RH side are basically slotted nuts. Those on the LH side are keyed in place and will not turn, and must be pushed out from R-L.

gnoahhh
01-04-2011, 09:15 AM
I recommended a french gray finish because I sensed he wants to keep costs down, but, yes, I agree with color case hardening being the best-- if done right. Doing it with a torch is just not right. It'll always be recognized as a "torch" job, reference the howls of derision that go up on collector's forums around the internet whenever a "torched " gun appears publicly for sale. Early Stevens case colors were a thing of beauty. Someone wielding an oxy-acetyline torch just makes a mockery of that. Don't be a "Bubba!"

calaloo
01-04-2011, 12:21 PM
The barrel, trigger, hammer, and breech block should be rust blued. You can send the frame, lever and buttplate to CPQ ( www.singleshotrifles.com ) for the correct color case hardening. Stevens colors were striped instead of blotchy.