CZ-75B in 40 S&W

[9.3X62AL]

This new toy just got home a few minutes ago, so here goes with initial impression--pre-firing overview.

When the Czechs say "all steel", they mean it. The only plastic parts seen are the mag followers, mag baseplates, and grip panels--the rest is steel, including the full-length recoil spring guide rod. Old School, with a vengeance. The receiver and the slide are machined investment castings--no roll pin-retained bolt face assembly, it's a solid unit. The recoil spring is a braided wire unit, like SIG-Sauers have. The barrel is a real, live 6-groove right hand twist with rate about 1:16" and appears to be hammer-forged. Everything about this pistol suggests stalwart construction and "meant-for-business".

Subjective impression when held in the hand is "Browning Hi-Power", a little heftier perhaps. Sights are 3-dot/square profile/fixed, an arrangement I favor. Disassembly is simple--once "safe-pistoled", remove magazine and set at half-cock. Push slide back a short distance to meet hammer face/match witness marks on slide/receiver. Push slide stop out a la Colt/Browning. Slide assembly removes forward-fashion. Recoil spring assembly comes out under mild tension, then barrel comes out. Done. It took twice as long to write that out than it did to perform the operation.

This variant does not "de-cock", but has a Condition One/cocked-and-locked capability. I suspect the intended carry mode is loaded chamber/full magazine, with hammer down. It has a trigger-controlled locking firing pin. First shot is D/A, and it's at least as good a stroke brand-new as SIG-Sauer's is broken in. S/A is not quite as nice as a SIG-Sauer, but the pistol is new. The S/A stroke is certainly among the better triggers on a DA/SA autopistol that I've played around with. To "safe" the pistol in mid-magazine, turn the safety on a la 1911A1/BHP, although the location is a little further forward on the receiver.

The feedramp/throat is a lot more fully supported than 1st/2nd Generation Glock 40's. I will have to examine fired cases to verify this, but I believe all will be well with cases fired in this pistol for reloading purposes. To that end, I have a good supply of factory 180 FMJ's that I hope to fire tomorrow--and on Tuesday with the Burrito Contingent.

I like how it looks and feels--let's see how it runs.

[txpete]

congrads on a fine pistol.I have been a cz nut for years.I have a cz pre b 75 from the evil empire that is my fav.
I also picked up a cz 40B this month and just got in my dies mould and sizer so it will be range time next week.
would really like to hear a range report on how yours shoots.
pete

[9.3X62AL]

Will do, Pete.

The pistols have a great reputation world-wide, and I recall reading years ago that Col. Jeff Cooper thought highly of the design, although not fond of its original caliber (9 x 19).

I really think CZ is missing a bet by not chambering their CZ-97 in 10mm--that would be basically a remake of the Bren 10, and I think it would sell well. Glock M-20's go like crazy in AK, from what friends in that area tell me. Besides its utility as a defensive round, it is quite capable as a deer caliber--maybe the only factory autopistol round with that ability. 200 grains at just under 1200 FPS harvested a WHOLE LOTTA deer with the 44-40 rifle.

It also seems kinda strange that while rifles and revolvers have gone berserk with over-powered and over-driven calibers.......that a cartridge as useful and practical as the 10mm lies fallow.

Anyway, I'm hoping the barrel is lead-friendly in this "40gun". Bar-Sto makes a very lead-friendly swap barrel in 357 SIG, dunno if I'll try that or not. The caliber intrigues me some. CZ has a sub-caliber assembly for shooting 22 LR, too. THAT might be fun!

[txpete]

al.. that 97 is one big pistol to big for my small mitts:mrgreen: .
here is a pic of my 40B I just picked up.
I got the lee 175 gr tl mould in and it drops bullets at .404-405.first lee mould that cast large for me so far..oh well.
pete


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/40005.jpg

[9.3X62AL]

NICE PISTOL! You can sure see where its genetics came from......:-) That variant isn't listed on the CZ site, is it a single column magazine?

[txpete]

al here is what I was told..
colt contracted with CZ to build this for them(z-40) they recieved a few then went belly up and pulled the plug on the project.cz then sold them as their own ie the cz-40B.
comes with 2 10 rd mags double stack.the grip is very much a 1911.
otd it was 325.00 w a box of ammo:-D for a nib cz I just had to do it.
pete

[9.3X62AL]

That's DEFINITELY a Colt grip/butt, for sure. Interesting little rare animal.

Kinda rainy and crappy here today, and one of the kids crashed one of the cars--still dealing with that. She's fine medically and not at fault, but the Cabrio is probably history. Dunno if I'll be able to run this critter today--things are getting off on the wrong foot.

[txpete]

as long as she wasn't hurt thats the main thing.you always shoot another day .
pete

[Stray Round]

Dang!! You'd have to mention a CZ75 after I just got through slobbering over a CZ75 in 9mm and stainless steel. The gun just felt great and looked just as good.

I was very impressed with how trim the gun, makes everything else feel like a club. I know I sure like their rimfires and small center fire rifles.

[JRR]

I love my CZ75B SA. Single action only. Had a steel trigger installed and a fine trigger job making approx. 3.5# and no creep. Acquired a RCBS 180gr. flat point mould. Great shooting gun and great casting mould. Shoots extremely well with 5.8 gr. of Herco and 6.0 gr. of AA5.
Jeff

[mike in co]

geee... i'm down to just 2 75's in 9mm, two in 9x21, just the one cz97 45acp,one cz 83 in 9mak and one cz83 in 7.65 browning....i do NEED a 40......

[txpete]

and a 83 in 380:-D :-D :-D
pete

[mike in co]

and a 83 in 380:-D :-D :-D
pete



actually i errored...one 83 is a 9mm browning(not 7.65...32)....what you and i call 380...

[9.3X62AL]

I am very impressed with the whole product line that CZ-USA markets. I have burned up a lot of bandwidth here discussing the CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62, so I won't inflict any more of that on you all.....the 452/453 series rimfires are all tackdrivers, and the 527 series 22 Hornets seem to be the only examples in that caliber that produce decent accuracy out of the box with reliable consistency. On paper, this CZ-75 seems like it will be the most lead-friendly 40 S&W available at an affordable price. Yes, the company does a lot of things right.

[nelson133]

I was looking for a reasonablely priced CZ in .40 S&W at the Birch Run Gun Show this weekend, but was attacked by a 445TI Taurus snubby in .45LC . I have trouble passing up any .45LC in my price range and there went all my cash. I need to justify the money I spent on .40 reloading components, and one gun won't do it, I need another so I gotta save up again.

[robertbank]

Congrats on your CZ purchase.

Tanfoglio, your EAA Witness, is a CZ clone and comes in 10MM. In fact if you buy their Model "L" .45acp - opps you folks can't get them -you can get uppers for all the cartridges (10MM, .357Sig, .40Cal, 9MM & .22LR. ) Don't know why EAA won't bring in the higher end Tanfoglio guns.

Deputy Al your CZ 75B in .40Cal will be lead friendly with a fully supported barrel and all. If it is half the shooter my pre B CZ 85 in 9MM is you got yourself one heck of a gun.

Can't wait for the range report.

Take Care Eh

Bob

[9.3X62AL]

.....and I really like this pistol!

I have fired a whole lotta different 40 S&W pistols since this caliber went online in 1989, and I think this CZ handles recoil best of all the models I've ever shot. It is as good as a Glock is for the first 4 rounds, owing to its line of bore being so close to the shooter's hand pivot point. Where it beats out the Glock is that as the Glock empties out, there is only the plastic grip section from the receiver to hold on to.......the CZ retains its ergonomic advantage like the Glock, and since its receiver is steel--things stay a LOT more balanced as the pistol empties out.

First shot from an unfired gun hit a 3" dinger plate at 50 yards. Talk about love at first sight--ing.......I ran the rest of the rounds through the pistol at this small target at long range, just to see what it could do. The Burritoistos gave it a test drive, too--Buckshot hit 3 out of 5 at this target, just another in the continuing exposures of his pistol ability to all onlookers. I hit the dinger plate about 20% of the time, and the remaining misses would have stayed inside the 8-ring on a B-27 silhouette, based on observed hits in dirt surrounding the plate. With results like this, some paper needs perforating--and some castings need launching.

The only bobbles came late in the sequence--about midway through magazines, rounds 4-6......one each during the 110 round mag, the 130 round mag, and the 140 round mag. Failures to extract, all were. This is an acceptable failure rate during a pistol's first 500 rounds, late in the series and in a new pistol. The CZ will be cleaned and another test series will take place mixing factory and reloads, to include hollow-points and castings. All rounds fired today were W-W white box 180 grain TC FMJ's.

I like this pistol--a lot.

[Stray Round]

I've long wanted to try one of the CZ 75s and the 40 S&W looks like an interesting round to try as a woods bumming gun.

Never heard of the .40 S&W discussed in that regard?

[9.3X62AL]

There's no reason the 40 S&W wouldn't work for woods bumming--way too much for tree squirrels, not quite enough for black bears--but probably just right for MJ growers or meth cooks. I only wish that bears and snakes were all we had to worry about when Marie and I head for the back country.

For a pure small game gun, CZ has a 22 LR conversion kit for the -75 series pistols, and a dedicated 22 LR variant as well.

[mike in co]

There's no reason the 40 S&W wouldn't work for woods bumming--way too much for tree squirrels, not quite enough for black bears--but probably just right for MJ growers or meth cooks. I only wish that bears and snakes were all we had to worry about when Marie and I head for the back country.

For a pure small game gun, CZ has a 22 LR conversion kit for the -75 series pistols, and a dedicated 22 LR variant as well.


i'm not surprised that al likes this gun...he fell in love with my 97b/45acp at the cast boolit shoot in winniemucckka.........
and he has picked out why these guns shoot...they sit low in the hand allowing
control and recovery when shooting.
think about this...135 gr/1300fps.(9x21)...double taps touching at 7-15 yds with std open sights.......
if this gun fits your hand...it will shoot....
ohhh and in 9 they make 25 rd mags that match the grip!

[9.3X62AL]

Mike--

I well remember that CZ-97 in 45 ACP, sir. I've been poised to buy a couple SIG-Sauer P-220's in 45, only to balk after recalling the big CZ's good work. The fun I had yesterday with the -75 makes me glad that I balked, and pushes me farther in favor of the -97. The P-220's Commander dimensions make for a better CCW piece, but that's the only advantage I see. I'm so conflicted.......I might have to buy both. Wouldn't THAT be AWFUL? :-)

[robertbank]

Boy you have me wondering. I have avoided the .40cal up until now then this report comes along. Well I am just going to add it to my next gun list and hope, she who knows best, understands.:)

Pooped up I am sure it would be better than a club against your black bears down there and certainly do a number on the two legged animals that wonder the hills.

Great Report, thanks.

Take Care Eh

Bob

[9.3X62AL]

I have some castings loaded and ready for the CZ, might get to send them downrange next week. Deer season is under way here, so I'm doing some of that too.

I had made the same decision you did, that the caliber was too big a PITA for too little gain with castings. The 45 ACP is very user-friendly for the reloader.......is a fine service caliber......and is intrinsically accurate. The 40 is a fine service caliber. In the CZ pistols, it seems to be less problematic, so the scales are tilted in favor of the caliber for me now. Having several hundred pieces of brass on hand and reloading tools on board influences that feeling, also.

Further work is needed to assess the caliber's accuracy potential. I'm hoping that the CZ's slower twist rate does the same things for the 40 S&W that slower twist rates do for 9mm's--that being, dramatic radial dispersion reduction with good bullets/boolits being used. Most 9mm and 40 S&W platforms are primarily service/defensive sidearms, so the need for target accuracy isn't there--and few people chase it.

[robertbank]

HI Al

I'll be surprised if you are disappointed with the accuracy of your CZ. Fellows up here who have them report they can be scary accurate if the shooter does his part. The CZ 97 in .45acp has been reported to be as accurate as any .45acp pistol and that says a lot given the 1911 noted accuracy when set up properly.

I wonder how the CZ 75B in .40 would make out in IPSC Standard division against the 1911's.

Take Care Eh

Bob

[mike in co]

well here is a guess.....

cz's factory competition gun is.............40s&w................

[robertbank]

Good clue:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

edited to add the .40Cal in Limited Class makes major in IPSC...9MM isn't allowed to get there, only minor - that is to major power factor that is.
Take Care Eh

Bob

[txpete]

finally got to shoot my CZ40B today.I like it!!:mrgreen: :mrgreen: .
first shot some factory 180 gr in it and it has a good bark and a bit a flame.

next was a handload with the lee 175 gr swc tl sized .401.speer cases and 4.7 grs of unique.it is the ticket in the CZ.fired off 50 and cut a ragged hole.mild and very accurate.
I also tried 5.0 grs of W231 but the groups really opened up.

best load

175 gr lee tl sized .401 lube lee tumble lube
4.7 grs unique
speer brass
win sp primers

alloy 9 lb's ww to 1 lb lino.
no leading:) :) .
pete

[9.3X62AL]

Pete--

That 5.0 x 231 load might be a little warm......I've used 4.7 grains with the 175-180 grain boolits with good success. I rang the daylights out of impact plates at 35 and 50 yards on Thursday with that load in the CZ-75, close to 200 rounds and zero leading. This was the Lee 175 conventional boolit, Javelina in the groove.

[txpete]

:-D I think you might be right al that 231 load had a bark to it.that factory aguila 180 gr was smoking hot.
I just was really impressed with a new pistol and no jams first time out.CZ builds a good pistol.
once deer season is over and I can shoot at the lease again I will try some longer shots.
pete

[9.3X62AL]

Need a re-count on that cast boolit work from Thursday--180 rounds--and 90 more on Saturday, making 270 downrange without a trace of leading.

Winchester shows actual loading data for lead bullets in 40 S&W in their Components Catalog. A 170 grain Lead bullet has starting load weight of 4.0 grains of WW-231, yielding 850 FPS and 22,800 PSI. Top load shown is 5.2 grains of WW-231 that produces 1030 FPS and 33,200 PSI.

One caution I would STRONGLY add here is that no seating depth, overall length, or bullet style is shown in the data. What I've done in the 40 S&W is to first find an overall length that fits the magazine and feeds reliably with the starting load. That done, I ran the powder up 0.2 grains until I matched the performance of the duty load I carried at the time in a Beretta 96 (180 grainer at 940 FPS) with its cast counterpart--and 4.7 grains did that. Seating depth can GREATLY affect pressure levels, so go slowly in absence of tested data using YOUR boolit.

[txpete]

I went with the lyman #48. pg 343

175 gr
w231
start charge
4.3 gr 863 fps 15,400 cup

max
5.8 gr 977 fps 22,500 cup

OAL 1.25

primers looked good.

I think I will try some more unique loads in the cz it seems to like that powder:-D
pete

[robertbank]

Just thought I would mention I ordered a .40 cal conversion kit for my Model "L" Tanfoglio. Shoud be here by the end of January. I'll report back on how it all works out.


Take Care

Bob

[scrapcan]

All,

I have had a Springfield P9 9X19 for about 5-6 years. It is a clone and is direct descendant of a tanfoglio. Parts are Tanfoglio and were assembled by SA.

I had a barrel split for no apparent reason. Was no warranty due to reloads and cast. I bought a new EAA barrel and with minimal fitting, the gun is running solid again. Both barrels shot/shoot lead very well. I shoot a lee round nose, lyman 147 bb, and a saeco 125 grn. Plus have shot some 358 SWC bullets. The only trouble I have with it is when new shooters shoot (I am an instructor and sometimes people just need exposure to different handguns) it is not very forgiving on limp wristing. It will smoke stack everytime. You can make it do it with regularity, that makes for a great learning tool.

The gun fits and feels good. I have been told that if yo you buy a 40S&W you can run a 9X19 barrel in the same slide/mags and have no trouble. I have a 9mm slide so have not tried it. I am looking for a 40 top end, there is one on gunbroker as a full parts kit but he wants 400 bones. I can get a new cz or eaa for that.

Anyway I think you will be very happy with your CZ.