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Marsh
12-02-2010, 02:36 PM
I have reloaded various things for 30 years or more and have never used Nickle cases. I just to reloaded 50 .45 Colt with 250 gr WW. Normaly, I like to use a heavy crimp, but the nickle desn't crimp as well.
Is this typical? And should I go back to brass?
Marsh

geargnasher
12-02-2010, 04:47 PM
I like nickel, but you have to work within it's limitations. If you're shooting SAA-level loads, it's fine for many loadings, use less crimp. If you're going +P as in Ruger-only loads, stick with brass because the extra work the brass undergoes at those pressures combined with heavy crimps will flake the nickel off in just a couple of reloads.

Gear

pistolman44
12-02-2010, 05:25 PM
I tried them once for 45ACP but seemed liked the case mouth was springing back some causing loose crimped bullets. I was using Lee carbide dies, maybe a different brand of dies would of worked better. Probably a roll crimp would work better than a taper crimp.

thegreatdane
12-03-2010, 12:26 AM
I've recently aquired some brass 357. in my limited experience with it, I'd say it seems more prone to cracking than regular brass, but it's easier to size.

beagle
12-03-2010, 12:48 AM
Think that cracking comes from the heat affect during the plating process. .357s and .38 Special nickel plated brass tends to crack at the mouth with far fewer firings than does the unplated brass stuff that I use.

Then, the nickel plating makes for a slightly thicker case mouth which is affected by a heavy crimp and probably tends to crack easier.

That said, I'm still not kicking any out of bed.....so to speak/beagle

deltaenterprizes
12-03-2010, 01:27 AM
Ammunition manufacturers began plating cases because police officers did not clean their firearms regularly and when the had to fire their weapon and tried to reload the 20 year old cases had corroded and stuck in the cylinder!

Echo
12-03-2010, 02:00 AM
I use nickle brass exclusively for my 45ACP reloads, and have had no problems. Some of the cases have been reloaded so many time the canalure is ironed out, but no splits, and good tension. WW stuff from back when I was in service...

Buckshot
12-03-2010, 03:40 AM
..............I won't buy nickle plated cases any more. But I do use them as range pickup in pistol cartridges only. All my bad experience had been with newly purchased R-P. Over about a year's time I bought new NP'd 45-70, 444 Marlin and 45 Colt. The 45 Colt was the absolute worst offender right off the bat.

It try to keep all my brass in 'lots', like pistol brass in lots of 50 cases. Rifle cases used to be in 20 round lots but have transitioned to the same 50 round boxes. On each is a lable having 3 printed lines: 1) Fired, 2) Anneal, 3) Trim. Each time they're fired a mark is made. When they're annealed a mark is made below the last 'Fired' mark. Ditto on the 'trim' line when trimmed. I've not annealed a pistol case yet, but HAVE trimmed some.

Anyway, by using this system I can look at any box of 50 and see that for example, I annealed on it's 8th firing, and had trimmed on it's 2nd and 7th firing. On the bottom of the lable if I lose a case or cases (split neck, etc) I'll write the number down. I bought 500 NP'd R-P 45 Colt cases and five 50 round boxes when I bought a Vaquero several years ago. I loaded 150 rounds and on their FIRST firing I lost IIRC up to 7-8 per box! These didn't simply crack at the mouth but split. Some almost to the rim!

http://www.fototime.com/886D492FBD5834A/standard.jpg

You might have to get your nose right up to the screen to see it but each case has a split down to within a 1/4" of the rim. I picked one box of 50 new cases to use as 'makeup brass' to replace those lost from the first 3 boxes. I continued to shoot from those first 3 boxes and exerienced fewer lost cases but still a dismaying number from each use. I probably have about 300 or so of those 500 left and they've ALL been fired now at least once. Of those original 5 boxes some of their labels are showing they've lost between 20-30 cases, with between 5-7 firings.

I know something was wrong as I've got NP'd 38 Special cases where the NP is almost worn off, and they're STILL going strong! The only reason I'll shoot and reload NP pistol cases is all my pistol dies are carbide.

The mentioned rifle cases didn't experience case splits like the 45 Colt cases. Instead they rapidly began flaking of the nickle at the casemouth, and small cracks that essentially rendered them useless. Both the 45-70 and .444 Marlin size dies were soon ruined due to severe scratching, which could only have been from the flaking nickle. It hurt but I wasted no time in dumping them all in the trash. I had to order new brass, and new size dies. The tumbling media was also trashed.

Now rifle brass has its own media, as do the pistol cases. Happily I haven't lost a rifle size die since, and I watch my nickle pistol cases cloely these days. As I mentioned, I'll not BUY any new NP'd brass of any make rifle OR pistol. I will continue to reload NP pistol brass I come across, but have nothing to do with NP rifle brass at all. The last of that 45 Colt brass seems to have settled down, and since I treat all the pistol brass seperately I suspect they may all eventually die of honored old age.

................Buckshot

vincewarde
12-03-2010, 04:44 AM
I cut it reform and trim it into 9x18 cases. No problems so far. I use a carbide sizer die.

Nice thing is that it's easier to tell the difference between the 9x18s and plain old 9x19 9mm :)

x101airborne
12-03-2010, 08:50 AM
I do not discriminate against nickle, but at a higher cost, I just dont pay for it. I did buy some 280 remington nickle cases about 3 years ago for my new 280 Ackley. After fireforming I found all to be well and good!! I thought for sure i would have lost 3 or 4.

casterofboolits
12-03-2010, 09:45 AM
I do discriminate against nickel plated cases. The NP'd cases left deposits in my RCBS 38/357 and 44 carbide size dies which started scoring the sized cases. May have been rough size dies as I had my Dad polish them out and soaked them in penetrating oil. Dad did all the polishing for the tool shop we worked for including case drawing tools for Lake City.

After polishing out the size dies, I seperated out the nickel plated brass and sold them to a guy who made key chains from them. I still keep a can on the bench and call him about every six months. I only get NP'd cases from range pick up or when I refresh my factory carry ammo.

cajun shooter
12-03-2010, 10:46 AM
It's a question that will never be answered because we all have different uses. deltaenterprizes as a police range officer I will tell you that nickel will corrode just at a slower pace. Here in the humidity of Louisiana I had to change out nickel more than once. Buckshot all my bad cases in 44-40 have been almost 100% R-P. I have several hundred Starline that have gone through several firings of BP and still clean up to like new. All R-P brass seems to be much thinner in the neck area and of course after firing and crimping we know what will happen.

beagle
12-03-2010, 11:59 AM
The plated cases were preferred mostly by LE officers as their spare ammo was carried in leather carriers which quickly corroded the brass cases. The nickel lasted longer but eventually corroded as well.

MY dad worked for the prison department in our town and periodically, he'd issue new ammo. This was always followed by a ammo cleaning session at home and a prolonged range session to "destroy" the old carry ammo./beagle


Ammunition manufacturers began plating cases because police officers did not clean their firearms regularly and when the had to fire their weapon and tried to reload the 20 year old cases had corroded and stuck in the cylinder!

3006guns
12-03-2010, 12:10 PM
I've reloaded both for many years, but found a definate disadvantage with nickle in at least one instance. I formed some 8mm Nambu from .40 S&W and while the brass forms well, every nickle case split as if they were brittle. Since they're so cheap annealing wouldn't be worth my time.

NVcurmudgeon
12-03-2010, 12:45 PM
Both the 45-70 and .444 Marlin size dies were soon ruined due to severe scratching, which could only have been from the flaking nickle. It hurt but I wasted no time in dumping them all in the trash. I had to order new brass, and new size dies. The tumbling media was also trashed.



................Buckshot


Buckshot, I never buy plated cases because they don't last as long and the flaking nickel is irritating. There are a few among my RPU cases. Now that you have mentioned ruined dies, plated cases can just lie on the ground, even those resulting from periodic "destruction" of old carry ammo.

geargnasher
12-03-2010, 04:13 PM
I tried them once for 45ACP but seemed liked the case mouth was springing back some causing loose crimped bullets. I was using Lee carbide dies, maybe a different brand of dies would of worked better. Probably a roll crimp would work better than a taper crimp.

If you rely on any crimp at all to retain the boolits in a .45 ACP you are doing something very, very wrong. While you can roll crimp a .45 ACP if you can find the die, case tension is all that should hold the projectile, either lead or jacketed. If the boolits are moving under recoil, your brass isn't tight enough.

Gear

Walter Laich
12-04-2010, 05:50 PM
to follow up on the above: just got back from a SASS match--had 3 brass cases split, have 11 nickle ones split. Shot same amount of each so I'll be phasing out my nickle ones for brass ones.
Nickle usually costs a bit more and, for me, doesn't hold up as well

walt

flinchnjerk
12-05-2010, 02:33 AM
Had the same problem as did casterofboolits; interestingly, with the same brand of dies and calibers. That, plus my great lack of enthusiasm for having flakes of nickel falling into the guts of my gats.... I'm an obsessive brass vulture, but NP'd hulls get left right where they're lying.

Tom W.
12-05-2010, 03:59 PM
I've not had any problems with handgun ammo, but while trying to fire form some 30-06 to 30-06 a.i. I had way too many start to separate. Of course, my cheapskate self wasn't using new or once fired cases, eithet. I don't do that any more, I use new or once fired unplated brass...with better results.

shdwlkr
12-05-2010, 04:13 PM
I have some nickel brass and have noticed that the brass seems to be thinner to allow for the nickel plating and not have external dimensions that are over accepted limits.

300winmag
12-05-2010, 04:13 PM
I have found that trimmimg plated on conventional trimmers it will flake. I will use file trim dies on all of my plated brass. If not clean good it will mar the dies and end up with nasty scratches on yellow brass.I like plated, I do not use it for hotter loads, per grimping issues and splitting. you know what they say pretty is not alway best.
300winmag[smilie=s: