777 question

[XWrench3]

It is muzzle loader time already in michigan, so i dug out the stuff to go shoot today. All of the load data i can find says to use no more than 100 grains of 777 in a 50 caliber rifle. but, on the website, and the earlier stuff it says to reduce all loads by 15% from regular black powder loads. 4 years ago, when i bought this rifle, i did not read the load data, and loaded several rounds at 150 grains of 777 using 240g hornady xtp's with a sabot. There was no ill effects from it, and if another shooter hadnt come along, i may have been shooting that load today. Anyway, my gun is rated as a magnum, so 150 grain bp loads are fine. But 150g of 777 certainly is not the correct load. If i reduce my 150g rating by 15% i get 127.5g max load. At some point in time, i settled on 120g, probably from shooting for accuracy. But this 100 grain maximum load reccomendation that is in their literature keeps bugging me. so, the question is, do you think that 120g is to much??? the accuracy shooting i did was a couple of years ago, in warm weather. So i am going out today to make sure it is still spot on. My thoughts are that if it shoots 120g just fine in warm weather, it should not pose a threat in cold weather. Also, the powder is at least 3 years old. I am no balastician or rocket scientist, and my memory certainly is not what it used to be. So, i would like your input please.

[Paladin 56]

Call Hodgdon and ask them.

I've only used 777 in a Ruger Old Army with 220 gr. conicals. IIRC, the load data listed a less than full cylinder, so I called Hodgdon and spoke to one of the guys there and told him what I had. He said no problem, so I loaded up with cylinder fulls of the stuff.

I get about 1,100 fps with that bullet/powder combo. Now to try Blackhorn 209.

[Larry Gibson]

If you look on the labels of the FFG "cans" it lists 100 gr by volume for 240 - 300 saboted bullets at 1820 - 1746 fps. On FFG it uses the same 100 gr by volume for 250 and 300 gr saboted bullets for 1971 - 1749 fps. That should be a good quide. I also have a magnum .50 cal (TC Blk Mtn Magnum) and have loaded higher with no problems. Check with Hodgdon and see what they say for "magnum" rifles. I use 90 gr(V) FFG 777 under a 370 gr MaxiBall for 1570 fps, that's enough for me.

Larry Gibson

[onondaga]

I believe that the rifle manufacturer really has the most authority for your question. They are conservative for safety reasons and that is a good idea. I shoot my 50 cal Lyman Great Plains Rifle that has the accessory fast twist barrel with 85 grains for the 250 gr REAL bullet only because I worked it up and that is where it groups. I know it will handle more powder but then it won't group 1 inch at 50 yards anymore. I don't even know what the velocity is, but that is where it groups and it can hit and kill deer cleanly out to 150 yards with the load. After that distance I am a useless shot with iron sights, So consider what your hunting needs are and ask the rifle manufacturer what the safety border is if it is relative to the hunting load you can group accurately with.

I don't think my rifle would group well with that load but it is proof tested to 150 grains 2F BP and 3 round-balls. That was Lyman's old proof for these rifles when they first came out and I got mine. They told me that the newer fast twist barrel I got has higher grade steel than the original round ball barrel that came on the rifle. I used to shoot 120 grains with a patched round ball and got better accuracy than I do with the REAL and new barrel but the difference is very small and the REAL hits a lot harder. Every sabot bullet load I have ever tried in this rifle stinks with the 1:48 twist, but the pure lead cast REAL 250 works real nice and the 1:60 twist is terrific with patched round-balls.

[mooman76]

I don't see a problem with it if your gun is rated at 150gr.

[stubert]

Sounds like magnumitis, You should shoot the most accurate load, not the fastest.

[Leadmelter]

Given it is 29 F in the Great Mitten tonight, I think my testing of this rifle and load should have started about about 3-5 months ago. Always priorities.
I don't hunt but remember the line from a movie long ago: " The 6P's: Perfect Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance" The Killer Elite, Sam Peckinpah.
I am surprised by the number of Michiganders on this site, quite a few at my club the DSC.

Gerry
MI

[Lloyd Smale]

ive shot mine a bunch with a 150 but ended up settling on a hunting load of 90 because my gun shot much better at that level and even a 90 grain it is a very powerful deer gun. Keep in mind that if your using pistol bullets even at 90 grain your pushing the envelope with those bullets. They are designed to run at much lower velocitys and may not hold together.

[cajun shooter]

Being the fastest bullet does not always mean you will be eating very much vension. When I was a police instructor I would always say that a hit with the 38 spl is better than the miss with the 44 mag. Put both on paper and you will have your answer.

[XWrench3]

i went ahead and shot it with the 120 by volume and hornady sst low drag sabot bullets. the point of impact is exactly 1" high @ 100 yards with 3 shots inside of a 2" circle. so i am going to use this. as to the "magnumitis", YEP, YOU BETCHA ! faster is almost always better. but i know enough that if it was only shooting 5" groups, i would need to look for another load.

[45r]

My encore likes the 300 hornady black sabot loads with 100 grains T7.It shoots well up to 115 grains by volume.I clean every shot and use a spin jag and tamping tool.It shoots 1 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards,that is the best accuracy I've gooten out of any ML I've tried.My old Knight comes close with powerbelts but the encore is my favorite ML.My son likes the Knight with powerbelts and pyrodex.I like to try the Blackhorn 209 someday but I can't complain about the groups I've got so far.

[jbelder]

i went ahead and shot it with the 120 by volume and hornady sst low drag sabot bullets. the point of impact is exactly 1" high @ 100 yards with 3 shots inside of a 2" circle. so i am going to use this. as to the "magnumitis", YEP, YOU BETCHA ! faster is almost always better. but i know enough that if it was only shooting 5" groups, i would need to look for another load.

To a certain point then all you get is diminishing returns. No more power and wasting powder. I have a Knight MK 85 54 cal that I shoot 100 grains of T7 and a 432gr H.P Lyman plains bullet, that I can shoot under 3" groups at 100yrds with peep sights all day long. I would be careful with new so called magnum muzzle loaders T7 is way a lot hotter than the holy black. Just my 2 pennies!

[Shyoldman]

777 is 15% hotter than reg Pyrodex according to factory reps. IF you have a 24" barrel 90 gr is about all that will burn in barrel, makes for pretty night shooting though! I have dropped back remembering the bullets and powder in 45-70"s that killed a lot of Buffalo at 500 to 1000 yds, why do I need more for a puny deer?

[cajun shooter]

Hey Lead melter, in police work we always called it the 7p's and it went like this
Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

[mpmarty]

That's why I stick to fffg or ffg and increase the load until it spits powder out the front and then drop back til it doesn't. Best ml rifle accuracy was with a 36cal Pennsylvania replica I built from a kit years ago. That rifle was a patched ball tack driver and deadly on running jack rabbits.