Why cast HP boolits?

[biscot]

It seems likely that casting HP boolits is more difficult than casting regular boolits, but I see a lot of interest in them here. Can anyone explain the benefits and/or disadvantages of hollow point cast boolits?
I'm assuming the desired characteristic is expansion, correct?
Is the only purpose for defensive use, hunting, etc.?
Is there any benefit of an HP boolit for any other use - steel targets, etc.?
Any increase in or loss of accuracy with an HP boolit?
I'm primarily thinking in terms of handgun boolits, as I don't know if people are using them for rifle boolits or not.

[82nd airborne]

I have found that a cast boolit will expand wonderfully in game animals with no hollow point, so I dont mess with them. They do look awesome though.

[HATCH]

Its the COOLNESS factor.
They look so COOL.
Remember all of those buffalo that used to roam on the plains?
Those were all killed with a non-HP boolit.

But I still am getting a couple HP molds anyway...

[Rangefinder]

Aside from the "COOL" factor, and adding another tinkering aspect to the already addictive process of casting and reloading (that being matching your alloy not only to shoot well without leading, etc. but also dialing it low enough to get proper expansion at desired velocities... YUP, it's a tinker-freak's project for sure)... BUT, there is also the accuracy factor. HP bullets have their center of gravity shifted more towards the rear of the bullet, which aids in better, faster stabilization, thus helping to improve the accuracy of the boolit over its solid-nose counterpart.

[outdoorfan]

Look up Glen Fryxell's articles. Here's some other excellent reads:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=28059&highlight=hollow+point+big

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=70292&highlight=hollow+point+big

[gnoahhh]

Yeah, but all those buffalo were killed by big fat soft lead bullets that didn't need to expand much. They reached their destination at the diameter our "little" bullets hope to expand to.

[biscot]

I should have known Glen Fryxell would pretty well cover it!

[AnthonyB]

I am a huge proponent of cast HP bullets. I use them in handguns to duplicate JHP performance at little cost. I find they perform like Nosler partitions in rifle caliber when loaded to appropriate impact velocities (1600-1800 fps in my experience). I also agree with earlier responses that they are a little more accurate, but can't prove it with any hard analysis.
Tony

[Rangefinder]

There is also the 'conservative' factor. If you normally shoot 150gr solids, then change them to 140gr HP's, you're getting an extra bullet for every high-cap magazine you send down-range!

I know it's reaching, but I like to look for all the benefits... :D

[lwknight]

The best reason for HP boolits is the 38 spl. Magnums don't care what kind of point it has. Soft alloy will mushroom out and hard alloy will stay intact. Hard alloy with a hollow point will just break off the petals and be a lighter slug unless th alloy is fairly soft and has enough tin in it.

[Larry Gibson]

biscot

I also am a proponant of HP cast bullets as long as the alloy is correct allowing smooth and sufficient expansion and such expansion is controlled by the correct depth of the HP. I'll answer your questions from my experience and perspective.

I'm assuming the desired characteristic is expansion, correct?

Yes that is the desired characteristic. The amount and type of expansion is dependant on the expected use as answered in the next answer. As to the "cool" factor? I think it is very "cool" to kill an animal as quickly and humanely as possible. I have found through observation of quite a few animals killed that correctly expanding cast bullets kill quicker than hard cast, even those with WFNs. HPs quicken expansion in the actual limited penetration distance in most big game, particularly deer, smaller pigs and varmints. If that's "cool" then it's "cool" for me:-)

Is the only purpose for defensive use, hunting, etc.?

I use them for hunting big game such as deer, elk, pigs, bear, etc. For is application a good malleable alloy is required with a correct depth and diameter of HP in a CF rifle cast bullet. I've found that a 1/8" HP works very well on .30 cal up through .375 cal cast bullets. that is from 1/3 the depth of the bullet nose to not more than to the front of the front diriving band, how deep depends on the animal hunted and the velcoity range of impact distances.

If hunting varmints with a CF rifle such as rock chucks, coyotes and jacks I like to use a harder more brittle alloy that will shatter in the varmint. A deep HP going to 1/2 the length of the bullet works well, again a 1/8" HP is fine.

For hunting deer, elk, bigs and bears with handgunds of .357, .41 and .44 magnums with velocities of 1400+ fps I use a very soft alloy (50/50 WW/lead, 1-20 or 1-16) in GC'd cast bullets. I HP these with a 1/8" Forster tool to usually 1/2 or 3/4 of the bullets nose length. These expand very well and give all the penetration desired (I don't do Texas heart shots so full length penetration is not a requirement or desire of mine). If hunting the smaller deer I also open the HP up on .41s and .44s with a tapered drill making the opening larger.

For personal protection I find the 1/8" HP in soft cast .38, .357 and 9mm bullets is very good if HP to the base of the front driving band. In the .41, .44s and .45s I also cast soft and HP with the 1/8" Forster tool to the base of the front driving band and then open the HP up with the tapered drill (Michaels tapered drill for rear sling swivel installation).

Is there any benefit of an HP boolit for any other use - steel targets, etc.?

Since my HPs are for the most part "specialty" bullets (or dare I call them "premium" bullets?) I don't waste them on steel. I've had no problems with regular unHP'd cast bullets on steel.

Any increase in or loss of accuracy with an HP boolit?

Many insist that an HP cast bullet is more accurate but I have tried to quantify that with my 311041HP and 323471HP moulds in several cartridges and rifles. I've also tested enough of other cast bullets HP'd with the Forster tool. I've not found any measureable difference that I can attribute to the HP.

I'm primarily thinking in terms of handgun boolits, as I don't know if people are using them for rifle boolits or not.

Lots of cast "handgun" bullets do get shot in rifles/carbines. If you go that route you will want a GC mould so a soft alloy can be used at 1400+ fps out of magnum handguns or 1600+ fps out of rifles/carbines.

Larry Gibson

[biscot]

Larry,
Thanks for that thoughtful and illuminating answer.
I appreciate the other perspectives as well.
I think I'll stick with regular molds for now, but at some point would like to try a HP mold. I was tempted by the Mihec group buy for the 9mm mold, was the reason I was asking.

[geargnasher]

Here's why I use them: Almost 300% increase in diameter with 99% weight retention in the right caliber with the correct alloy and velocity.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20388&d=1267418624

.45 ACP Lyman Devastator at 850 fps.

Gear

[fredj338]

I have found that a cast boolit will expand wonderfully in game animals with no hollow point, so I dont mess with them. They do look awesome though.
In rifles maybe, but not at most handgun vel. A well designed LHP will expand nicely in flesh from 850fps-1400fps or so.

[white eagle]

biscot
there are a few fellas on this board or Erik does hp work on molds
If you have one that you want to try have it hp'd and especially in a
2 c mold you could have on hp and one fp
I have done that with one mold and am seriously considering another

[biscot]

Thanks, white eagle. I'll probably give that a shot (no pun intended).

[outdoorfan]

Here's my very brief testing of the Mihec version of the RCBS 45-270-SAA HP bullet in my .45 Colt shot at 900 fps.

From left to right:

1. Pentagonal HP. 30-1 alloy that penetrated 3 1-gallon milk jugs filled with water, and I found the bullet in the fourth jug.

2. Pentagonal HP. 30-1 alloy that penetrated about 15 inches of a good sized doe. The bullet hit ribs going in and out, and I found the bullet in the offside hide after it had punched a hole through it but hadn't quite exited.

3. Round HP. 30-1 alloy that penetrated 5 jugs, and I found it in the sixth. It may have penetrated six, but I don't remember for sure.

4. Round HP. 50/50 ww/soft alloy, plus 1% tin, that penetrated 8 jugs, and I found it in the ninth

5. Pentagonal HP. 50/50 ww/soft alloy, plus 1% tin, that penetrated 4 jugs, and I found it in the fifth. I lost a few of the petals.

[fredj338]

Try using something other than water, it's actually quite hard on bullets at impact. Wetpack is closer to balistic gel than anything else as far as expansion characteristics. It offers about 3/4 the penetration of balgel. My 270grSAA from RCBS as modfied by Erik:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/452-268-1K.jpg

[ChuckS1]

Just another facet of the hobby for me. Looked like fun...though so did golf... Frankly, it is a pain in the a** as I just rediscovered with a 358395 HBWC mold. But once it gets working right, there's a sense of satisfaction. Let's see, I have 5 HP molds now, all but one are SC.

[RP]

I was told I would be so cool if I got them and they were rigtht

[82nd airborne]

Yeah, but all those buffalo were killed by big fat soft lead bullets that didn't need to expand much. They reached their destination at the diameter our "little" bullets hope to expand to.

Your shootin the wrong gun!

[1Shirt]

I am of the belief that properly cast HP blts have the potential of being more accurate than their solid nose form. A lot of this is based on properly cast for consistancy, and weighed to within .2 of a grain of maybe less. All that is said about the subject has merit, particularly the comments by Larry Gibson. Particularly agree with him on Varm cast blts (like mine to be about 28-30 BH). It is the accuracy potential from the bench rest factor that interests me. Seems to me that if the jacketed makers of the high priced match blts go with HP for stability, that the same ought to apply to cast.
However, think it is the lightening of the bullet that may be a real factor of accuracy based on less weight in the nose. Just my thoughts and opinion.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[LowPE]

With Mihec or NOE hollowpoint moulds that I have my casting speed isn't slow at all....the Devastator moulds now do slow me down although with practice you can cast pretty fast considering it is a single cavity with the additional step of putting in the awl.

There is a quiet satisfaction in casting your own hp's. There is also something nice about shooting 250 in an evening's practice and not caring about cost.

[GLL]

It is nice to have a choice ! :) :)

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/F2B9D5B8B8FEF9C/standard.jpg

[outdoorfan]

Forgot to add this image of three variations of the same thing.

[outdoorfan]

Oops, here it is.