PDA

View Full Version : Help a newbie with 45-70



ihctractor
12-01-2010, 12:13 AM
I've been hanging out here quite a while reading and learning and finally joined up. Now I need some advice with my first attempt at casting.
I have a Pedersoli Sharps, 30", 1 in 18 twist. I've been loading for this rifle with good success for some time but never with cast. I bought a Lee two cavity mould: 405-.457 dia.(only size the local shop had) that throws perfect .457 dia. bullets weighing 398 gr. with WW. I tumble lubed with liquid Al-ox and loaded over 47 gr. of H4895 (that's what I have and due to tight budget would like to stay with one universal powder).
My first trip to the range was disappointing as all 15 test loads hit the target perfectly sideways and all over the place at 100 yards.
I slugged the barrel and have a .459 groove, so my cast bullets are to small. After reading about lapping the mould, I thought I could make mine bigger and tried it. Well, it did get bigger, and ugly with rounded off grease grooves so I think I ruined that one.
So before I waste more money that I don't have, can my mould be saved? If not, where the heck do I find a 405-.460 mould that won't break the bank?
Any other advice to get me in the right direction?

454PB
12-01-2010, 12:28 AM
If you plan to stay with Lee moulds, you may want to try the 459-405-HB.

I've had good results with it at around 1400 fps. in my Marlin guide gun. In WW alloy mine casts at .460"

BSkerj
12-01-2010, 12:56 AM
I have a 459-405-HB that I don't use. I bought it for my Marlin but found that a Lyman 457193 worked better in it. You can try it if you so choose ...like 454 said..this one also drops at .460 using WW. According to the reviews they were made primarily for a Sharps. PM me if you want to try it and I can send it to you.

Gelandangan
12-01-2010, 01:17 AM
You could try a diameter enlarging technique called "beagling".
Search for it in the forum.

Rick459
12-01-2010, 01:29 AM
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=59371

WHITETAIL
12-01-2010, 08:52 AM
ihctractor, Welcome to the forum.:p

Larry Gibson
12-01-2010, 04:11 PM
ihctractor

Suggest a couple things;

You are driving a PB'd bullet of WWs pretty fast with that load. In my humble experience a hard cast PB 45-70 bullet will begin to lose accuracy in the 1550 - 1650 fps range. Softer cast, such as yours, or BB'd bullets lose accuracy sooner. Thus you might back off on that load with that bullet. I suggest trying 36 gr of H4895 with a 1 gr dacron filler and work back up in 1 gr increments until accuracy goes south again.

Suggest adding 2% tin to your WWs for better fill out. Casting a bit hotter also will give maximum fill out. Additionally using a ladle similar to Lyman's or RCBS's holding the spout against a horizontal held mould and then turning both vertical gets the hot molten alloy into the cavity the fastes and gives maximum fill out also. I've even drilled out the spout hole of the ladle to facilitate this when casting my own 400 + gr bullets.

You might also try some 5744 with a dacron filler starting at 25 gr and work up to 28 gr with your current bullet.

If you try the 459-405-HB again try the above loads as it too will lose accuracy if pushed too hard.

Larry Gibson

jtaylor1960
12-01-2010, 07:19 PM
I shoot a 400gr. cast in my Marlin that has a 1in20" twist.I also use H-4895 powder.It is very accurate.I'm not an expert but would say that your bullet diameter is the problem.You might also try a wad over the powder.H-4895 powder gives low pressure compared to most.I also get a larger diameter when I use Lyman #2 as compared to WW.

ihctractor
12-01-2010, 08:03 PM
:holysheep I can't believe how much response I got to my first post! What a forum!:smile:
As I read all the great advice I realize how little I actually know about shooting cast. Looks like my first order of business is to make bigger bullets and slow them way down. This is a new concept for me after years of launching tiny copper clad bullets out of giant bottle necked cases at warp speeds. I just gotta keep reminding myself that slow rainbow trajectories are a good thing and part of the Sharps / 45-70 romance.
Thanks everybody, I'm honored to be on board.

MtGun44
12-01-2010, 10:45 PM
The Lee 405 HB saved my trapdoor, apparently slugging up to fit the worn and oversized
bore.
Actually with a .459 groove diam, you will probably need a .461 or .462 diameter for
good results. As stated previously, try beagling (search function) up to that diameter.

I use the RCBS 405 GC and run it at 1750 in a Marlin GG with 1-2" groups at 100 yds.

Bill

ihctractor
12-26-2010, 11:49 PM
Well, after the advice here and reading a lot of other posts I think I finally got it.
I beagled my mould so it now cast at a whopping .464 with WW (yeah, a little big), then I had a friend with a lathe polish out a sizing die so it sizes down to .461. with boolits weighing 407-409 grains.
I loaded several 5 shot groups with H4895 ranging from 38 to 48 grains and went out today in bitter cold and wind to test.
Cha-ching!!! Not only did the bullets all hit point first (finally) they grouped incredibly well with one load almost being one ragged hole at 100 yards.
Things I learned:
As the barrel warmed up the groups got tighter.
38 grains was very comfortable to shoot.
48 grains grouped best but freekin hurts!
Numb fingers and set triggers are bad combination!

I was just about ready to give up trying cast boolits cause the frustration of key-holing and wasting powder just about had me, but after today there is new hope!
Now all I have to do is get my groups to move about a foot to the left to hit my point of aim and I'll be golden but that's a completely different problem.

Thanks for all the help, this is a great forum!

mpmarty
12-27-2010, 12:39 AM
you're lucky you only have to drive the sight sideways to zero it. I had to buy a new higher front sight.

home in oz
12-27-2010, 01:19 AM
good luck on your rifle and welcome to the forum!

44man
12-27-2010, 09:19 AM
Believe it or not but you can even shoot them at the full .464" if rounds chamber and you can extract a loaded round without losing the boolit.
Yeah, the 45-70 can beat you up! :roll:
You should try 560 gr boolits for the pleasure of a blue shoulder. :bigsmyl2: