Contender Pistol Question

[jcadwell]

There is a nice contender pistol down at the local store right now in 30-30 for 375$. I'm thinking it may be possible to get it down around 325. It has a ported super 14 barrel on it. What is the Super, and how much should I look at paying? It is blued with walnut and a rubber backstrap on the grip. The gun also has an engraving of a cougar or something like it looking down some rocks... It is an original contender, with the crossbolt in the hammer. It is of the 'harder to open' variety, but that doesn't bother me.

Any thoughts on the value of this thing or whether I should look for something else in 30-30?

[dragonrider]

I have that same barrel for my TC and I LOVE IT, price could be better, I'd try to talk him down some.

[crazy mark]

Actualyy I seen that barrel listed as a hunter barrel. Very nice barrel. At todays prices $325 isn't really bad. I've seen them priced at $350 - 450 OUT HERE AT GUN SHOWS. The price doesn't seem to be dropping.

[versifier]

Price is a little high for an older frame & barrel, but if it's in really good shape it's worth considering. The grip is relatively new, and the barrel is newer than the frame, which was made when they still offered octagon barrels. If it's still stiff to open, that's a good sign of not a lot of use. (Most people aren't into shooting a .30-30 a lot, especially with factory ammo designed for rifles, but they're a handloader's dream.) "Super" just refers to the 14" barrel as opposed to the 10" one. T/C will upgrade the hammer for free if you send the frame to them and return all the original parts with it when they send it back to you. New barrels go for around $225-250 each. A .30-30 is a good place to start, my first one had a 10" .30-30 and I've been kicking myself for trading it ever since. I just got a carbine Barrel in that chambering that I'm going to have a lot of fun with. Contenders won't handle the high pressure, fatter-cased rifle ammo, they weren't designed for it, that's why T/C came out with the Encore. But within their limits, they're great pistols and you won't regret buying it. Considering the range of chamberings that can be found new and used, there is no more versatile handgun/carbine available (except possibly the Encore).

[AZ-Stew]

I agree with versifier. Take a look at the Fox Ridge Outfitters web page, in the T/C Custom Shop section (http://www.foxridgeoutfitters.com/section.cfm?section=16) to see the range of options, calibers, stocks and barrel lengths available. Though it's a single-shot, it's surely the most versitile factory firearm available. I have two frames (one actually belongs to my daughter) and a number of barrels. One thing I'll say about TC is that those folks can really make an accurate barrel. They also have a superb warranty. I have had a couple of problems, but they were taken care of, no questions asked. The first was when I bought my first Contender, new, with a .223 Rem. barrel. There were rust pits in the bore. T/C replaced the barrel. The only cost to me was outgoing postage. When they came out with the 45-70 barrels, I bought one of the first. The rifling grooves were cut in a manner that's hard to describe. Suffice it to say, the groove depth was about .465, rather than .458 and it didn't shoot worth $#!t. I called and they told me that they knew about those barrels, but that they weren't supposed to have left the factory. Again, I sent it back and it was replaced immediately with one that shoots very well... assuming you can handle it. It's not for novices. Anyway, when you get a normal, standard production barrel in proper condition, you can expect it to be at least as accurate as you can shoot.

Contenders, due to their action design, will handle almost any handgun cartridge, and will handle rifle cartridges that fall into one of the following categories:

1.) Small head size, i.e., 30 Carbine, .17/.222/.223 Rem. class, despite their high operating pressure. The small head diameter reduces the total breech force.

2.) Large head size, i.e., 7mm Waters/.30-30/.444 Marlin/.45-70 due to their lower operating pressures which, again, keeps breech force within the strength limits of the action lockup.

One more thing to keep in mind. If you're an accuracy nut and must have a scope sight on your guns, be aware that the cost of a new barrel/cartridge option will equal the base cost of the barrel, plus the cost of an appropriate scope, base and rings, since the scope mounts to the barrel, rather than to the frame. Don't forget the dies, shell holder, several bullet moulds, nose punches, sizer dies, case trimmer mandrel, cleaning brushes and probably a dozen other things I forgot. But just think of all the cartridges you can fire from one gun! And it's so CHEAP! :bigsmyl2: :drinks: :violin: [smilie=p: and probably :killingpc and :groner: !!

Kidding aside, Contenders are great fun and despite the cost of accessories, are relatively economical compared to individual guns. Enjoy!

Regards,

Stew

[454PB]

I owned the same set up years ago and shot it with cast Lee 170 gr. GC boolits. It was amazingly accurate. With the open sights it would put 5 shots in 3" at a hundred yards. I bet a scope would cut that group size in half.

[jcadwell]

I like 30-30 because I already load for it in my Marlin 336.

The other option would be an encore in 30-06, but that might be a bit much, and it is 475, and new.

The gun is in great shape. Very clean, no blueing gone anywhere. Looks like it has been sitting in a safe somewhere.

How would I handload differently for the pistol? Lighter, faster bullets with faster powders? I load everything I shoot with either Titegroup or H4895, mostly to keep things simple...

[Jon K]

It sounds like a second generation Contender, if all that you described is orginal.

The serial # will tell you when it was built.
The barrel you describe(Hunter) was commonplace mid-1980s, alo that rubberback grip is mid-late 80s.
If all of the above is correct, that is what they call "Easy Open Frame". The Older first model were really hard to open. Pin location was changed to make it easier to open.

The Contender is capable of a lighter cleaner trigger, that will repeat, than the older, or newer(G2 & Encore).

Bewary of the barrel (muzzle brake) and cast bullets don't often play well together.

4895 should work in that barrel. So will Re-7,3031,5744,748,322 just to name a few. The T/C 30-30 has a1:10 twist which is very versatile. It is a very good barrel to get started with. Like Lay's Potato chips-"You can"t have just one".

Good Luck & Have Fun Shooting,
Jon

[JSH]

The thoughts in the past that rifle calibers in long barreled pistols have to be loaded differently than a rifle is false. For the most part a load that works well in a rifle will do the same in a pistol.

"The Contender is capable of a lighter cleaner trigger, that will repeat, than the older, or newer(G2 & Encore)."
That statement is not really true. I have several Contenders, one Encore and one G2. The Encore was first of the two newer varities. It had a terrible trigger and I suspect that is why I got such a good deal on it. It came with a 15" 308 barrel and had a 9 pound trigger, asper my RCBS gauge. Quite a while after I had purchased it I was about to give up on it. Do a search on Mike Bellm. If you can cast a bullet you should be able to do his trigger job and install a spring. I have my Encore at about 12 ounces now and it is the best trigger in or about that weight in my rack with stock parts now. I worked on the G2 and it is right at 8 ounces, but will push off. I use both of them in this mode for IHMSA. In about 10 minutes I can have them both set to any where from 2-3 pounds for hunting.
The contenders can be switched around a lot quicker, but the trigger is not nearly as good IMHO.
As to TC building a very accurate barrel. I would say they build an average barrel 80% of the time. Fox Ridge is not a true custom shop. What the offer are the same thing that TC offered in the past, obsolete calibers and wildcats. With the same reamer and forcing cone throat that TC did or does. If you go a custom go with a true custom, it will save some headaches.
I know this will raise an eye brow or two. I don't want to get in a -------- contest with any one or offend folks. Just stating what I have had happen first hand by me.
TC seems to be up and down in the quality control area. My 308 barrel will shot right at 1" at 100M with FLGC's, no cast tried yet. My 14" 3030 will do the same if not better with CB's if I do my part. The 375WW will shoot extemely well also, better than most rifles in that caliber.
On the other hand, I had a 22 match barrel that would shoot patterns at 50 and luck to hit the backer board at 100. If a barrel is marked match it should mean somthing? Long story short, the chamber was off center of the bore. Yes the replaced it, but it should never have gotten out of the building. I fooled with a bunch of 7TCU barrels before I found one that would do what I deemed good. I have a 7-30 Waters barrel that has amazed me from the first time I fired it.
My biggest disapointment was a 14" 30x221. Chamber was over length. I ended up using 222 for a parrent case. It shot fairly well after a couple of years of fidddling with it. The most recent hands on problem child I have seen was a buddies 6.8 barrel. Chamber was over length also, factory or virgin brass took a double tap to make it go off. And that was with the bullet shoved into the lands, also tried expanding up to 7mm and then back down to create a false shoulder. He sent it back and the sent a new one, problem solved.
I don't ever see myself being without a TC of some kind in the rack. They can be made to shootvery well, but it may take a little more work than it actually should.
Jeff

[versifier]

You will find that you can get much better performance out of the shorter barrel by using faster powders. Slower rifle powders do not burn completely and often get blown out while still burning. This leaves a mess in the barrel and gives an impressive muzzle flash in low light. Fine if you like pyrotechnics, not if you like consistency and low SD in your handloads. Rifle loads are often very accurate, despite erratic velocities, why I do not know, but the chronograph does not lie. There are measurable differences in performance between rifle loads and handgun loads in the .30-30, and also in .357Mag and .223. These are the only three with which I have done any side by side testing, and only in the first two did I also test cast boolits. Lower SD equals more predictable bullet drop at longer ranges, especially important if you shoot heavier bullets out of yours, but also a factor for the greater usable range for hunting afforded by 110-130gr bullets. A good look and comparison between .30-30 rifle and handgun loads in the Sierra manual will show you what I mean. About 25% of the slower powder choices are eliminated. When slower powders are used, the charges are always lighter. This is even more important with cast boolits because their lower friction coefficient means that they spend even less time in the barrel. With medium and smaller capacity cases and cast boolits, faster powders in general work noticeably better for rifles, more so in shorter barrels.
I do agree that T/C periodically has some quality control issues, but when approached reasonably, they have always made things right in my experience. Very long throats is a common complaint, but I suspect that this may be because a lot of people who use them for silhouettes are rather vocal in their preferences.

[Jon K]

JSH,

Sorry I didn't mean that the G2 & Encore were not capable of a nice trigger, but if you'll look again at the statement, I said repeat. by that I meant bending the spring, because it won't adjust to a light setting and hold. It has to periodically be rebent for adjustment. If it won't hold and can drop or be pushed off, it won't make gun inspection in a championship match.
My view is that once the trigger is done, I shouldn't have to keep chnaging spring tension. I had to do that with a Merrill (XL) Pistol.

JSH & Versifier,

T/C quality control, I agree is like shooting the dice. I have had and seen wide spread differences in barrels that are supposed to be the same. A friend of mine recently bought a 25 Ugalde and a 25-20 both 10" from the Custom Shop. Both barrels would not shoot j-bullets very well, and he doesn't like cast. He slugged the barrels, and both were .258-.2585. He sent both barrels back to T/C, they seent the barrels back to him saying that they were within tolerances. Now they sit in the bottom of the safe.
If you want tight tolerances, guaranteed to shoot, the Custom barrel makers are the only way to way to go. They charge more, but stand behind their product.

Jon
:castmine:

[jcadwell]

Well, I bought it for 300$. I hope it shoots...

Thanks for all the information guys. Most appreciated.

[jcadwell]

If I insert a round into the chamber, close the action, cock the hammer, and then open the action... the hammer falls. Is this normal? Dangerous?

Thanks.

[jhalcott]

If I insert a round into the chamber, close the action, cock the hammer, and then open the action... the hammer falls. Is this normal? Dangerous?

Thanks.
that's normal for that model,Dangerous? The hammer should not hit the firing pin BUT I would NOT make a habit of doing it.When I am hunting with my T/C's and have to open the gun for some reason after cocking it. I hold the hammer as I open the action. I have the super 14 in 30-30 and several other calibers. You got a good deal -IF- it shoots. The "SUPER" means it is a fat straight barrel not a trim tapered one. The hunter barrel is ported and "seems" louder than unported barrels. Remember to wear ear protection when ever you use this barrel. I've used factory ammo to take deer and handloads with 120 thru 180 grain cast. It is an easy round to find good loads for.

[JSH]

Jon, I agree with your statement. I have not done a trigger on the G2/Encore by bending any springs on them. The Contender yes. I use my G2/Encore in U and UAS where after market parts are not an issue. An IHMSA shooter friend of mine has a G2 that has the springs bent, it is a hassle. The push off I refered to has never been checked by any one I have seen, even at the Int. in 02. They checked to make sure it was unloaded, cocked it and bumped and banged it around, no problem. The push off can be cured fairly easy and will be on my G2 this winter. I am wandering about the hammer springs on the G2/Encore, if they are prone to needing replaced on a regular basis?

jcadwell IMHO that is very good price for a complete gun.
I am using 18.0 of SR4759 behind the RCBS 165GC in my 3030. I had tried a bunch of different loads with out much success. A fellow on the IHMSA board told me to try that, shazam. Never looked back.

Versifier, I think each barrel on the pistol platforms of rifle calibers have their own likes and dislikes. I watch the chrono way more than I used too. My 15" 308 is quite happy with 748. My XP in 6-223 desires a diet of H335. Yes both of those are quite blasty. My shooting bud has a 223 that just loves Benchmark, same load he uses in his rifle. The pistol will take off 12Ga. hulls at 200M with both the rifle and the pistol. These are all FLGC on the above btw. Don't quote me but if memory serves me right a 309JDJ go to load uses 4350. A friend in Ohio has a 35-06JDJ that gobbles the stuff up, no dirty barrel.
On the CB side one of the 3030 loads I had tried was a 150-165 grain GC boolit with 25.0 of AA2520. The pistol showed some fairly good groups along with pretty fair chrono readings. I had aquired another 336 in 3030. Used the above leftovers from the pistol all of the quirks the pistol notes had went away with the rifle.
LOL, I have to say I almost hate a gun that shoots the first load tried in it very well. Takes the suspense out of it. I have a couple of pistolas that I just swear that I need to be rid of. Then take them out and the suprise me. Operator error I suspect, maybe gremlins in the shooting box.
Jeff