shooting the Whelen

[jhalcott]

I shot the whelen at 1, 150 and 200 yards. After sight ing at 100,I fired a group.It was less than 2".Then I fired a 5 shot group at 200. I was about 8" low and about 3.7" in size.Then I fired 5 at 150. It was ~6" low,and about the same size as at 200.The drop or lack of it surprised me! I thought it would be more. I shot the Rn's to compare .I got very similar results. I shot some clay birds on the berm at 100.Then tried to duplicate the groups. I started getting fliers at 200. I'm not syre if it was recoil getting to me or fouling in the bore. When I cleaned it I got a lot of black stuff that looked like charcoal. These bullets are lubed with felix wfl, and then tumble lubed in Lee liquid alox. With 2" groups at 100 and sub 4" at 200,i don't think I'll change

[Pop Gun]

jh,

Sounds like you are satisfied. Few things in this world beat that feeling.

Just don't let satisfaction stop experimentation. especially if you get your hands on more designs :grin:

Remember, long range trajectory is altered most by the angle of the shot in reference to your line of sight. If you can accept a higher POI at close ranges that are easier to estimate, then trajectory is much flatter farther out where you can't.

I am shooting 2 1/2" high at 100 which puts me no higher than 4" in my trajectory at any range and dead on again at 220. Then I am only 9" low at 300 which keeps it on the target. I don't shoot game passed 200 yards.

[jhalcott]

We are just getting our 300 yard berms ready now. Since the golf course opened next door we have had to make a lot of adjustments for safety and sound issues. I really expected a lot of drop at 200 and set the target high to catch the hits. I shot 3 shots without realizing they were hitting near the other group. I cast up about 8/9 pounds of them tonight .Gas checking and sizing before the weekend. Then some practice for deer season!

[Buckshot]

I shot the whelen at 1, 150 and 200 yards.I started getting fliers at 200. I'm not syre if it was recoil getting to me or fouling in the bore. When I cleaned it I got a lot of black stuff that looked like charcoal. These bullets are lubed with felix wfl, and then tumble lubed in Lee liquid alox.

There is a theory for some fliers called "Lube Purging". You CAN without a doubt use too much lube and cause problems beyond it just being messy. Some boolit designs date form when lubes were pretty much just beeswax and some added animal oils. For high velocity the only answer was to use more, and even then they would eventually fail. Adding more did nothing but glob up the works in addition to leading and-or poor accuracy.

Nowadays starting with the NRA 50/50 formula our lubes are a heckuva lot better, and sometimes too much can be a problem. I read an article on lubes and the 38 target loads using wadcutters. Thier design used a 148gr WC with 3 lube grooves and with all 3 filled the revolver became a gooey sooted up mess in no time. A lube test was run with the pistol in a Ransom Rest

They knew all 3 filled was not optimum so it was tried top & middle, middle and bottom, then individually top, middle and bottom only. I would have guessed that having the top lube groove filled would have been the best. You figure the top lube groove leads the boolit down the barrel so it would be doing it's thing. In this case, just the opposite happened where the with only the bottom groove filled the pistol was most accurate.

Kind of the same thing with the Loverins used these days with our better lubes. It also was reported that the Oldfeller 172gr 6.5mm slug provided noticeably better consistant accuracy with 2 or 3 of it's 4 lube grooves filled. Some of that may be that velocities were held to around 1600 fps too, due to high rotational velocities much beyond that.

It could very well be that the additional tumble lubing with LLA is just too much of a good thing. MIght be worth a test without it to see what happens?

..................Buckshot

[Pop Gun]

I started getting fliers at 200. I'm not syre if it was recoil getting to me or fouling in the bore. When I cleaned it I got a lot of black stuff that looked like charcoal.


jh,

Richard is right about playing around with lube quantities if you have time. And there is a bazillion other things I can think of too. :-D

Just realize that slower powders are going to burn dirtier and require a dry patch every now and then. More so in cold weather. Anytime you mix carbon (burnt powder) with any petroleum product you get tar. Is that what your patch looked like maybe?

Since you don't usually shoot 50 rounds while hunting, it's not normally a problem. It can be if you set the rifle up long enough to harden or for that crap to freeze. I usually patch between 20 and 25 rounds if I am using a full olgival bullet design and that keeps me sub MOA. Change designs to one with a shoulder and spans increase too. Normally that is all that is needed and it doesn't change anything. Or you can use a nylon brush to do pretty much the same thing.

One other thing that is nice and will extend accurate shooting periods is to add Carnuba to any lube. That puts a hard, waxy surface in the bore that tends to blow out more of that fouling and minimize the need for cleaning. But in the end, you will have to dry patch at some point to avoid the lube (fouling) fliers.

No free lunch.

[jhalcott]

Yes, I agree on the lube quantity thing. I NORMALLY take a cleaning Kit to the range for a number of reasons.Like when A guys shows up with cobwebs on his gun!? Any way I tried to shoot this bullet with out the LLA and got lousy groups,6 to 8" at 100. It is a LOOONG bullet.The nose tapers off quick. I'd be almost out of the case trying to seat it to touch the rifling. I do use Carnuba in my FWFL. The black stuff was tiny and gritty when I patched it out. I used a shot of Wipe out after a dry patch. Waited a couple hours and used about 50 patches and still got light gray. Then I used a wet patch of Hoppes and a brush with Hoppes, The 1st patch was black! 15 strokes of the brush seemed to loosen the stuff and 30 patches later it seems to be clean. When I seat this ammo ,I can just see where the bullets contact the rifling. Faint marks but they are there!

[Pop Gun]

The black stuff was tiny and gritty when I patched it out. I used a shot of Wipe out after a dry patch. Waited a couple hours and used about 50 patches and still got light gray. Then I used a wet patch of Hoppes and a brush with Hoppes, The 1st patch was black! 15 strokes of the brush seemed to loosen the stuff and 30 patches later it seems to be clean. When I seat this ammo ,I can just see where the bullets contact the rifling. Faint marks but they are there!


Wow. That's a lot of patches. I never see the extent of what you are describing. And I shoot RL15 which is slower than Varget but still close. And I use pistol primers.

Even if I let a gun sit, fouling can be removed with three patches. I usually use Flitz gun polish and put it in liberally with a loose patch, let soak for 5 or 10 and two tight patches and stuffs out. No need to run a fourth because bore looks unfired with a bore scope. Car polish works just as well because it is designed to disolve tar and road grime, but you have to watch that it doesn't contain any aluminum oxide in it. Some do. This stuff won't touch metal fouling, but that isn't the issue. And Flitz has Carnuba in it which helps minimize fliers at the next go round too.

Don't laugh, but another great disolver of fouling is LLA. That stuff is like snake oil for guns and can be used for a multitude of ills. Brush it in, let it sit, then use Hoppe's to patch it out. It's cheap to use as a cleaner compared to other stuff.

I hate cleaning. And I try to avoid over use of cleaning rods because that many patches would try my patience well beyond careful operation of the rod.