Ruger 22 hornet dilemma

[Bullshop]

I have this sort of dilemma that I am soliciting ideas and opinions for.
The dilemma is with a Ruger 22 hornet blued steel walnut stock model.
The problem is its accuracy is unacceptable. The problem that has created is that I wont sell it because I will not stick someone else with it and I wont use it either. It has now been idle for a number of years as I seem to keep procrastinating on doing anything with it. Its such a disappointment I dont even like to look at it. But the more time that goes by without doing anything with it the worse my sentiment regarding it becomes.
I am not the original owner so I have not talked with any Ruger folks about it. Anything I may decide to do is dependent on the cost. Things I have considered are,
#1 Pulling the barrel and truing the receiver face and barrel face.
#2 Rechambering to K hornet
#3 re barrelling
#4 re boring, The re bore would be to 25 cal by Jes reboring but would also include the cost of a reamer.
Problems
# 1 & 2 may not solve anything so investment $ goes up with no change
# 3 & 4 May equal the initial cost of the gun thus having the cost of two guns into one.
Its about at this point that I throw it back in the corner for a few more years. Maybe just maybe with some help I can get past this point this time and make progress.
BTW I have always wanted to try a 25 hornet in a rifle but my Mommy might get upset with me if I spend too much money.

[67bear]

Is the crown OK? If so I would start with talking to the folks at Ruger. Based on reports from several people I know, I think you will find they will treat you very well. Unless you really want a 25 hornet. Or you could make me a really good deal on it and I'll try to get it straightened out. I'm not real sure why I need one, but I've wanted one for several years. Good luck to you.

[docone31]

Take the action from the stock.
Cut a washer from an inner tube, or other rubber source.
Put the action back with the forward reciever screw through the washer.
Gives it all a minute relief. Made a large difference with mine.
Try that one first before you get deep. Might be all it needs.

[azcruiser]

The problem is its accuracy is unacceptable WHAT BULLETS and DIA. -Powders Weights could be something simple

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Bullshop,
I respect your honorable ethics.
IMHO, Sometimes it is just best to sell something like that.
I would be honest and tell the buyer everything you know about it.
tell them how accurate it is and how accurate you think it should be.
you'll probably take a pretty good loss,
but maybe you'll be money ahead if you don't stick a bunch more into it.
PLUS, you might find someone that thinks
that it's accurate enough for a discounted price.
those are my thoughts.
Jon

PS, Is this a Ruger #1 or A Ruger #3, or a bolt action ?
regarding the action shimming, I did that on a Ruger 10-22, I used a .008 thick aluminum shim.
it made a big difference. I'm not sure that'd work on a #1 or a #3 if that is what you have.

[Rocky Raab]

Trade it. When the shop asks why (IF they ask) just say it isn't as accurate as you'd like. Ethics served, conscience clear, no lies told.

[BudRow]

I have a Ruger 77-22 Hornet that is very accurate. I shoot Winchester 45 Gr. jacketed bullets. My load is 12.5 - 13 Grs. of AA 1680 with small pistol primers. Cases are once fired then Lee collet neck sized. Seat out as far as the magazine will allow. Good Luck, Bud

[dale2242]

I think we all have different ideas about what is acceptable accuracy.
I have a #3 Ruger in 22 Hornet that will shoot 3/4-1 MOA with occasionally tighter groups. That is acceptable to me. I have other guns that will do better. Acceptable accuracy changes, for me, with different applications. What do you consider acceptable accuracy?
Is the gun, #1, #3, or M77?
I find the tension of the barrel band on my #3 will effect accuracy.....dale

[.357]

sell me the action and stock [smilie=l: you might actually be able to part it out and get your money back out of it.

[mtnman31]

I assume that you have tried all manner of different approaches at reloads. Given that you have tried everything you can with ammo, I'd talk to Ruger about it first. If they can't or won't do anything to help, I'd then think about selling it. As others have mentioned, if you are honest about its shortcomings you have nothing to feel guilty about. I once sold a truck and told the buyer everything that was wrong with it. He took it for a good test drive and proclaimed that he could make it work and promptly bought the truck. I found out later that he couldn't fix the truck and the engine had some sort of catastrophic failure. I didn't feel the least bit guilty becasue he knew exactly what he was getting into and the selling price of the truck was fair considering its problems.

Here I am giving advice to sell it, when I myself have never sold a gun. If the gun didn't work out for me it ended up being something that has collected dust and maybe gets shot every once in a while just for fun. Silly, I know. Nonetheless, contact Ruger first and see if they can't help in making it right.

[Bret4207]

Dan, this guy is supposed to be the man with 77/22's and Hornets. I think they do something to the bolt, pin it I think, and do something to the action too. Might take a look at his stuff and see if it gives you any ideas.

I'd love a 77 Hornet that shot good.

http://www.ct-precision.com

[nicholst55]

Is this a 77/22 Hornet? They had a reputation for having junk barrels, straight from the factory. I would either 1) put it in the safe and forget about it, or, 2) rebarrel it with a good quality aftermarket barrel. IMHO, those are the only two viable options, since you're unwilling to sell it to someone else as-is.

[twotoescharlie]

I bought one several years ago,same problem. free floated the barrel,same problem. glass bedded the barrel problem solved. very accurate now. I used a 40g hollow point over 4227, don't remember how much, 1/2 in groups at 50 yards.

TTC

[Johnch]

Contact Ruger
I had one that was minuite of barn at best ( 12- 14" at 100 yds at best )

They rebeded it and ???

Not going to say it is a 1 hole rifle now
But it will put any factory ammo I have tryed into less than 2" at 100 yds
And my hand loads are a little less than 1.5" at 100 with jacketed and right around 2 - 2.5" with cast

John

[gray wolf]

My Ruger 77 22 hornet would shoot 1/2" all day long with Little gun powder.
You may just have a bad rifle. That said CALL ruger.
2 years ago Julie had to have a 10/22 ( I hate the new ones with all the plastic **** )
Anyway she got one of the little carbines ---I think it was about $200.
Well it was a jam-O-matic from day one, Pi$$ed her off to no end. Called Ruger and they were very nice about it. Picked the rifle up at the camp on there dime and had it back in about 8 days. Trouble is it was worse than before. So they picked it up again.
This time they called us ( and get this ) They said we can't fix your rifle. I said WHAT ????
Your the darn Company and you can't fix one of your own guns.
They said we are sorry about that but we want to make you happy. I said ok make me happy.
The lady in customer service told Julie to pick any 10/22 she wanted and they would send it to our FFl person. We just had to pay the $20.00 for the NIX check. She said ok I would like a 10/22 blued target rifle, laminated stock with the spiral bull barrel.
I chimed in and said and with no plastic parts ( the trigger groups are all plastic now )
This was on a Thursday, they said it would go out on Monday.
Well Tues. the brown truck delivered it to the gun shop and Julie did the paper work and it's a keeper and one heck of a shooter. Down side is she took the scope off my B/P smoke pole
and put it on the 22, Warne QD rings and all.
I still can't believe they couldn't fix a little 10/22. and gave her a $500.00 $$$ rifle in exchange for it.
This is a 100% true story--- So yes call Ruger, I think they will help you.



Sam

[Bullshop]

Wow ! Lot of good advice and help, and questions. I will try to answer what I remember. First this is a 77 22 hornet with blued metal and walnut stock. I do have another 77 22 hornet and it is the stainless metal with the laminate stock. The stainless gun is a wonderful shooter as were the two others I have had. The stainless has a longer heavier barrel than the blued model. This is my second try at the lighter shorter blued model and the second disappointment. By unacceptable accuracy I mean 5" at 100 yards average. That is not a usable level of accuracy for my use of the hornet which is small game a varmint out to an extreme range of 200 yards.
If I cant consistently hit a rabbit at 100 to 150 yards it is no good to me.
I did take it apart today and found some problems. We have very limited daylight right now so could not get much shooting done.
What I have done so far is #1 relieve the excessive for-end pressure. There was a good hump at the for-end that had the bluing rubbed off. I took off the hump and the barrel settled lower in the for-end now and there is a little bit of give if the barrel and for-end are squeezed together.
#2 I took a loop and bright light and got a good look at the muzzle. It looked rough and the color of the fouling was different for the last 1/16". For this I used a reamer to break the sharp edge it seemed to have that seemed to have some choke to it.
After the reamer I fired it and the color of the fouling was the same all the way.
#3 Holding the barreled receiver in the stock with the front screw and plate in place the recoil did not seem to be bearing tightly to the stock. For this I cut two shims, one under the recoil lug to tighten that and another went under the front wedge to tighten that end. I found some corrugated bronze material that was a perfect fit to the v's in the front wedge and the portion of the receiver that mates it.
At that point I had to try it even though it was too dark and I could barely make out the target. I only fired three shots but they went into about 2.5". That is not real good but as I said I really was only pointing not aiming. I am anxious to try at first shooting light tomorrow.
I forgot to mention that I do not shoot factory ammo or jacketed bullets in my hornets.
I have been testing a new powder from Alliant called 300MP with the Ranch Dog mold and it is working very well in the stainless rifle so that is what I was shooting in this one as well. Because of our daylight issues right now I have not yet chronographed it but it is a top end load. With my alloy the RD boolit is 53gn with lube and check and I am using 11.5gn of the 300MP powder. Velocity should be in the area of 2200 to 2300 fps.
Thanks to everyone for all the help. Maybe just maybe its not hopeless.

[bobthenailer]

in the past i had a 22 hornet in a #3 , very accurate with the barrel band removed but developed head sepreations ! which is not all that uncomen for hornets the gunsmith checked the headspace with a no go guage and the action closed ! even added 1 to 2 thousands extra with a feelers guage between the no go guage and it still closed ! sent to ruger for the headspace problem, came back stating headspace withen spec ! no work done . the smith was going to recamber to k hornet but after a year of wating i traded it.
second ruger hornet but in a m77 when they first came out , accuracy was lousy ! sent it back two times ! first they put on a new stock second time they did something to the action and recrowned the barrel . with 2 known good leupold scopes a 3.5x10 ao and a 6.5x20 with 6 different bullets in the 40 to 50 gr weight class and 5 different powders and i also tried business cards inserted all up and down the barrel channel. [ the best 5 shot group after all that testing was 2 inches at 100 yards] . i traded it back to the gunshop where i bought it.
later i bought a contender in 22 hornet 10 inch barrel and it shot under a inch at 100 yards with the first bullet and powder tested ! useing a 2x7 pistol scope ! i was still useing the same dies !
later i also bought a 14 inch barrel that also shoots excellent

[SwedeNelson]

Dan

Its my understanding that the bolt was a lot of the problem. Two piece, rear
lug and sloppy.
I have a 77/22 hornet that was always just marginal with jacketed or cast.
Re barreled it to 17 Ack. hornet and it was about the same, marginal.
Saving my penny's to send the bolt off to Connecticut Precision Chambering, L.L.C.
and let them work there magic on it.

Swede Nelson

[Rocky Raab]

Two Hornet rifles that almost never get traded in: a CZ or a Browning. Just sayin'

(Mine's a Browning. It would be the last gun in my safe if things came to that.)

[Bullshop]

Swede nelson
Interesting what you are saying about the bolt because something interesting with the bolt happened here today.
Today's shooting was no better. Best groups were 5" at 100.
This carbine has always had a problem with extraction with loads that work well in other rifles. Today I changed bolts and tried the same ammo and there was no sticking. The cases extracted normally. It didn't shoot any better but extraction was normal. Put the blued bolt back in and cases were sticking in the chamber again. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT???? Makes me think this is a loosing battle.
I have heard those little Browning micro hunters shoot good but I have never tried one.
I once had a Walther hornet in my hands at a gun show and oh how I wanted to buy it BUT, well you know the story.
I am always on the hunt for a superbly accurate hornet. I understand the Anschutz can shoot but only come in a 1/16" twist. I like to shoot rather long boolits so would prefer a 1/14"
I think the next thing to do is talk to Ruger about it and if that fails I want out of this thing. I have $300.00 in it and would sure like to get that back but that is not likely knowing what I know and will have to tell.

[C A Plater]

Hmmm, I seem to remember something about Ruger 77 hornet bolts. It has been more than 10 years ago so my recollection may not be 100%. I believe it was the excessive play in the two piece bolt. This link Ruger 22 Hornet (http://www.centerfirecentral.com/ruger22h.html) appears to be the same information regarding a solution.

[405]

I have no experience with the Ruger small bolt gun in Hornet but a little with a few other platforms. I know one Ruger Hornet factory bolt gun a friend had was only a so-so shooter. So I understand the dilemma but not of much help. My experience with the Hornet goes back a ways and includes the early Winchesters that shot the undersized version and a few of the modern .224 forms. It seems a little sad that from what I've experienced with the Hornet, many modern "really ougtha shoot guns" don't shoot the Hornet very well. I don't know why either.

I have an older TC Contender with a 10" thin Hornet barrel that shoots extremely well. That same TC frame with a newer carbine length Hornet barrel simply won't shoot. I bought a BRNO bolt rifle in Hornet, new in about 1995, that wouldn't shoot!!! The target that they used to send with each gun (don't know if CZ still does that?) was almost an insult. I tried an H&R Hornet single shot, new in about 1998, that wouldn't keep bullets in a 12" circle at 50 yards!! Thank goodness I didn't buy that one! Another friend has a K Hornet on a small Martini and it shoots extremely well. Sorry, enough "been there done that stories".

'tis honerable that you won't dump it on someone else. You deserve credit for that!!

If you like the Ruger as it is, minus the poor accuracy of course, you might consider going semi-custom with a good gunsmith/good chamber reamer/good barrel and just have another barrel put on. Unfortunately that would about double the 300 price tag but you would likely end up with a real shooter. The Hornet is a very nice little cartridge and it is one that I know can shoot very accurately. The good ones I've been around do shoot and they seem to shoot most any reasonable bullet well.

[Rocky Raab]

Bullshop, my Browning Medallion (only made for one year) will snug them into an inch all day, with some groups in half that. It actually has a .223" bore but cares not a whit if I feed it .223" or .224" bullets. It will launch 30-gr Barnes leadless bullets at 3200 fps, and 45-gr classic Hornet bullets at 2800 - either with 13.0 LilGun.

I suggested to the brass there that they make it in the Hunter style. They probably already had that planned, but I'll take the credit!

[markinalpine]

Just a consideration, since I have absolutely no experience other than articles I've read, but have you considered barrel harmonics? Apparently if this is a problem, clever people have figured out how to use barrel dampers to reduce or eliminate it. Again, not knowledgable, and I wouldn't know where to seek advice. Maybe a varmint hunting forum.
Mark :coffeecom

[Bullshop]

The thing that has me worried about a re barrel is the bolt thingy.
I cant figure out why with the one bolt the brass from the same ammo will stick in the chamber while with the bolt from a different rifle it does not stick.
I think something is cattywampus with its bolt. I would hate to foot the cost the re barrel and find that didn't fix it.
I looked over the two bolts but I can not figure how to disassemble them. I looked at the link someone here gave but still can not rotate the bolt halves to gain access to the pin holding the halves together.
Between the two bolts the stainless bolt, the one that shoots good has more play than the blued one, go figure!

[405]

It's been quite a few years since looking at a Ruger Hornet bolt gun, but you may be right.... something cattywompus with the bolt. IIRC the one I looked at seemed a little funky in design and not very similar to the usual Remchester/Mauser type. Obviously bolt face alignment (90' plumb to bore line) comes to mind about bolts and accuracy. The sticky extraction with one bolt and not the other.... no clue. How to break one down.... no clue. The Ruger factory may be the best first step or last resort :(. Like you, I'd dread the thought knowing there wouldn't be a 100% chance of correcting the problem.
Anywho, good luck!

[82nd airborne]

Dan,
I sent a ruger mk1 back to the factory for a broken firing pin and told them upfront that I was not the original owner. They sent it back 2 months later. The only thing not brand new when I got it back was the reciever. Even the grips were new. Included was an invoice for 0$, paid in full.
At least give them a call. the worst they can do is tell you no. You dont have anything to loose.

[Marine Sgt 2111]

I bought a Ruger hornet, blued model and was getting 3" to 4" groups at 100yds...all day long. I glass bedded the recoil lug, the action, refined the trigger, polished the cocking ramp and cocking piece/sear and free floated the barrel. While groups shrank down to the 2" to 3" range, I was not impressed.

I took the bolt apart, measured the difference between the stud and the hole in the other half of the bolt, it was .010" undersize. As a machinist I can say....that's huge on that small a diameter stud. I used .004" shim stock and wrapped it once around the stud, put the bolt halves together and punched a hole through the shim stock with a drill so the pin would fit. I replaced the original factory pin that holds the two halves of the bolt together with a hardened plastic mold ejector pin that was made to fit with a dremel tool. The bolt now locks up like a bank vault door. Groups shrank down to 1" or less.

I did rebarrel it to .17 Ackley Hornet and it shoots under 1/2" all day long with it's Pac-Nor barrel. Best group to date: .185" C-T-C @ 100yds for 5 shots.

[tonyjones]

This is not an inexpensive solution but I have never seen a Cooper Model 38 in .22 Hornet that wouldn't put 3 shots into .25" at 100 yards with good handloads.
Tony

[1Shirt]

I have a #3 Ruger in K Hor, that shot above moa as a straight hornet. Had it K-ed, and it will stay under an inch on calm days with 12 gr. of H-110. Had bad luck with it with Lil'Gun on hot days. Have killed a whoop of p-dogs with that gun and that load to ranges of out to 225 and possibly a little bit further.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Bullshop]

Tony
I would really like that solution but dont have the $1500.00 to spend.
I do have a mod 38 Cooper rifle though, It is a 22 CCM.
This gun was in a shop in Fairbanks for many years. No one really knew what it was or how to get ammo.
I had to make a trip back east to help my Dad when he got sick so I made a trade with them. I had a couple ton of boolits cast and lubed and boxed that I could not take so I traded them for some guns at Down Under Guns in Fairbanks.
I had my eye on the Cooper for a long time and even back then priced at $1200.00 it was out of reach. The trade made it possible. As you said it is a superbly accurate rifle.
Two years ago I was rabbit hunting with my boys and lost the clip. I have a habit of every few minutes reaching back to check to be sure the clip is in. We shot a few rabbits and walked about 100 yards and I checked and it was gone. I contacted Dan Cooper about it and he said they could scrounge up enough parts to make one and without even a stutter said it would be $400.00. I went back to the sight where it was lost with a metal detector and found the clip.

1Shirt
If I were to try a re chamber to K hornet I would first set the barrel back and not just simply re chamber. If this chamber is out of alignment setting back then chambering would help.

[armed_partisan]

Hey, Bullshop! Why don't you trade it to me for that Savage 23B in 25-20 that you wanted?

[Bullshop]

armed partisan
I am seriously considering that! What about the check I sent for the 23D?
We are still having trouble with ATF on the license.

[Trifocals]

Bullshop: I have no experience with a Ruger bolt gun in .22 Hornet. However over many years I have had quite a few shooters complain about the accuracy of various brands of rifles chambered for the Hornet. Apparently it is a "finicky" cartridge. In reading the posts for this thread, I would be inclined to suspect the bolt. Next, I would suspect the action could be threaded crooked in relation to the centerline. I have seen examples of that. If you have not done this, I would clean the barrel of ALL fouling and try a variety of factory ammo. If it still will not shoot reasonable groups I would put the rifle in the hands of a very competent gunsmith such as one who works with benchrest rifles. Have him check if the receiver is threaded true, for bolt problems and that the chamber is straight with the bore. If there is a smith that can correct the sloppy bolt problem, that may be worthwhile. However, in retrospect I would first send the rifle to Ruger with sample targets shot with factory ammo accompanied by a stern letter that upon return of the rifle accuracy in excess of 1moa will not be acceptable. If Ruger or a good gunsmith can't solve the problem, then it would be time the rifle found a new home and to start looking for a replacement. LOL