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View Full Version : Water quenched driving bands w/air cooled nose?



Ole
11-22-2010, 01:24 PM
I'm sure some of you guys have tried/done this, but I never have and thought I would share my promising results. :mrgreen:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/Ole1830/Bullet%20making/IMG_5389.jpg

Bullet on the left was water quenched, then sized and lubed, then put in a pan of water up to the last driving band. I then applied a propane torch to the nose until the lead started to slump (about 6 seconds on low heat). I let this one go a little too long and you can see the deformed nose from the slumping.

Bullet on the right was water quenched and no further action taken because the base was buggered up. I was going to remelt it for another batch but I thought I would test the hardness for comparison.

Bullet on the left reads BHN 11 (.068" dimple) on my lee hardness tester.

Bullet on the right reads BHN 27 (.044" dimple) on my lee hardness tester.

Next up, accuracy testing. :Fire:

I'll let you guys know how these shoot later in the week. 8-)

Edit to add: My alloy is reclaimed shot that runs about the same hardness as clip on wheel weights.

JJC
11-22-2010, 01:37 PM
I was going to fill a bucket with water to a certain point, say just above the crimp groove. Then WQ after heating them in the oven. Should wind up with a soft nose and HT shank. Happy shootin let us know.

armed_partisan
11-22-2010, 01:45 PM
Why not just stick them in a pan of water in a toaster oven standing up? It will make some steam, but the water will keep the portion of the boolit below the waterline cooler than the exposed nose, which will be annealed down. Water Quench when you cast 'em an anneal them that way, should have the same result, but with better consistency. Just make sure that you keep your water level correct with a turkey baster, then allow them to air cool in the pan before moving them.

Naphtali
11-22-2010, 02:35 PM
Another possible solution might be to put water quenched/heat treated bullets into the ubiquitous pan of water, then to apply torch to one bullet's nose to identify approximate time for torching to cause nose to melt/deform. Knowing that time, you can torch remaining bullet noses to just short of "plastic" temperature.

The pan-in-oven sounds easier, but I don't know what among the suggestions in replies will be most effective. Perhaps trying each method, then reporting on [controlled] expansion in wet AND dry newsprint (with or without pine boards substituting as bone??).

Just some thoughts.

HORNET
11-22-2010, 02:42 PM
Ole is doing it just about as Paco Kelly recommended, he just needs to get his timing down. Paco used to watch for the color-change "shine-line", IIRC. There used to be a link to his articles on Leverguns.com , but I've lost it.

Jayhem
11-22-2010, 04:54 PM
Just so those reading this (like me) who have no clue why this would be a benefit can you guys explain this?

My guess is it would provide a better hunting boolit that would expand better while remaining hard enough on the drive bands to push to higher velocities?

Ole
11-22-2010, 06:43 PM
Just so those reading this (like me) who have no clue why this would be a benefit can you guys explain this?

My guess is it would provide a better hunting boolit that would expand better while remaining hard enough on the drive bands to push to higher velocities?

You pretty much nailed it.

I made these for my 357 Max TC and from what i've read, ACWW alloy will expand nicely at the velocity that I plan to drive these.

white eagle
11-22-2010, 07:21 PM
another method is to have two pots
one for the nose (soft)
second for the remaining boolit(hard)
pour the nose follow up with harder lead for the remainder of the boolit
what you end up with is a soft tipped boolit
I have made some but haven't had the opportunity to try them yet
time consuming but worth it

outdoorfan
11-22-2010, 08:28 PM
Why not just stick them in a pan of water in a toaster oven standing up? It will make some steam, but the water will keep the portion of the boolit below the waterline cooler than the exposed nose, which will be annealed down. Water Quench when you cast 'em an anneal them that way, should have the same result, but with better consistency. Just make sure that you keep your water level correct with a turkey baster, then allow them to air cool in the pan before moving them.


Not sure, but I don't think this method will work as the hardness of the lead below the water level will probably draw down to some extent. I use the torch-anneal method, and it works well for me, especially when using 50/50 ww/soft alloy.

This article is an interesting read:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/35

XWrench3
11-22-2010, 08:48 PM
white eagle, i have never tried what you are suggesting, but i think i remember reading that the two halves would seperate upon impact. please let us know how they turn out! as for the "annealing method", the best soloution would be a water filled pan with a continuous supply of cold water being run through it, and then heat applied like from a radient heater of some sort for a specific amount of time. that way the bottom would stay cold, and the top would soften. i am way to lazy to mess with all of that. i will just shoot soft boolits, and clean the lead out of the barrel for the little bit of actual hunting i will be doing with cast boolits. for me, that is limited to whitetail hunting. so the absolout most would be 4 deer a year for me. and that would be a GREAT year!

outdoorfan
11-22-2010, 09:20 PM
The two halves will not separate if done properly. If done improperly, then yes, they can and probably will separate.

Ugluk
11-22-2010, 09:58 PM
Ole,
Did you check the hardness of the base of the softnosed one?

Is there a sharp change in hardness or a very gradual softening towards the nose?

Just curious..

mpmarty
11-22-2010, 10:06 PM
My ACWW do just fine and I don't have to work all that hard (I'm retired after all) short answer is I'm lazy.

avan47
11-25-2010, 06:03 PM
What velocity do you have to get the ACWW up to for them to expand in game?

badbob454
11-25-2010, 06:36 PM
couldn't you just drill a hole in the tip to make a hollow point? i think this should work as well but easier ? i dont know i water quench clip on wheelweights with tin added ... and blast

leadman
11-25-2010, 09:12 PM
I cast boolits out of pure lead, then cut off the amount of nose I want to be soft. Then put this back in a heated mold and put the mold in the hot alloy until melted, fill the rest with alloy of choice. The nose is 5 to 6 bhn this way.
Yes, it is slow but only do this for hunting loads.
I haven't recovered any fired boolits, but when hit on the nose with a 4 pound hammer they don't seperate.

runfiverun
11-25-2010, 10:23 PM
the trick is like suggested above, re-melt the alloys in the mold and let them cool enough to cut the sprue.
pure don't water quench.
you could also try water quenching the bases in the pan you use to heat treat.
stand them up, heat to temp, and pour cold water in the pan as deep as you wanna quench then let them room cool.
something like a 50-50 alloy would respond nicely.