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Lightning Ross
10-08-2006, 12:04 AM
I have a 7x57 Remington rolling block short barrel saddle ring Uraguay stamp on the stock. It is in great shape Tight with a mint bore. I was wondering what was the bullet weight used in the old 7x57. I imagine in that time it was a cast lead bullet. And what was the bullet speed.I would like to keep it origanal and shoot as close to the loads it was made for. It has been checked out by a smith and iit is in great health.Although the barrel has not been slugged.

Bret4207
10-08-2006, 08:25 AM
That was my first "deer" rifle. LOUD! I wish I still had that old roller. THe original load wasn't cast, it was jacketed, about 175gr (similar copper clad still available) and was doing around 22-2400fps. Find a box of 175 factory and that'll be about what you get. I don't know that any cast loads were factory produced, but someone else may have info on that.

Depending on your barrel condition you may find a cast load that shoots great. My ancient '93 Mauser 7x57 will shoot the RCBS 168FN if I squint just right on the 3 rd Tuesday in June. It loves anything in the 165 gr condom line. I'd suggest making a chamber cast, a throat imnpression and determine your specs. After that clean the heck out of the barrel, size to your throat diameter, or shoot unsized boolits if you can and see what you get. Figure at least 100 rounds to know if it'll take to your load or not. Have fun, thats the important part.

TCLouis
10-08-2006, 11:09 AM
I have always read that thes guns are slightly long on headspace. No biggie though.

Sounds like a PERFECT cast boolit candidate to me.

gregg
10-08-2006, 05:51 PM
Cast bullet= FUN . Go for it. Sounds like a great rifle. Alot of them
have been cut up. I would keep this one like it is. But that just me.

Lightning Ross
10-09-2006, 12:19 AM
I was told by an old pro with rollers to fire form cases mark the shell so the mark is staight up.So it is loaded the same each time. Play with over all length and neck size only.I saw some loads with unique that was 1600 to 1900 fps and very low preasures for 168 grain cast in an old lyman cast book.I live in SE AZ and would like to see what the old girl would do on a Javelena.

jh45gun
10-10-2006, 01:22 AM
Congrats on getting one with a good bore like many of the rifles that came from South America the bores were not that great. My 7x57 Roller wound up a 45/70 because the bore was a sewer pipe. Of course I am not complaining as I bought the gun for the action anyway to make a 45/70. It may have been harder to do if the bore would have been good, but it was not so the decision was easy.

Buckshot
10-11-2006, 03:21 AM
...............I have a Rem M1897 in 7mm Spanish (according to the barrel :-) and it shoots very well indeed. You can about drop a 30 cal slug through a fired case neck but other then that it's fine. A casefull of surplus WC872 and the RCBS 7mm-168 does 2400 fps which is the original ballistics for the round from a 29" bbl. At 50 yards that load is a tad over 1" all told.

A friend of mine bought a Rem M1902 from a gunshop in central Calif maybe 4 years ago, and I don't think it came out of the closet since the day it'd been originally bought. Full case colors on the action. Stockonly has 2 very slight dings up by the front band. Lift the rear sight ladder and cosmoline would ooze out from under the flat spring. He paid $600 for a basicly brand new rifle.

...............Buckshot

Lightning Ross
10-11-2006, 08:39 AM
This rifle was bought by my wifes uncle in 1953 at a hardware store out of a barrel of them He paid thirteen dollars for it the box of shells cost him four . he griped about that for as long as I can rember.As far as I know He has acounted for 9 blacktail deer a couple of pigs.and one prowler.All I can say is he had great shooting ability . The trigger has to be around ten to twelve pounds.

hpdrifter
10-11-2006, 11:28 PM
highway robbery!!!

Lightning Ross
10-12-2006, 12:51 AM
I also ended up with a Ithica hammerles side by side and an old marlin 35 rem made in 1951and a winchester bolt action 218bee love the 218 great for nasty striped stinky critters just dont shoot them near the cloths line.makes the little women head for town for new cloths shopping .

Bret4207
10-21-2006, 08:52 AM
This rifle was bought by my wifes uncle in 1953 at a hardware store out of a barrel of them He paid thirteen dollars for it the box of shells cost him four . he griped about that for as long as I can rember.As far as I know He has acounted for 9 blacktail deer a couple of pigs.and one prowler.All I can say is he had great shooting ability . The trigger has to be around ten to twelve pounds.

"And ONE PROWLER"!!!!! Com'on man! Give the scoop on the prowler! Sounds like a good tale.

Lightning Ross
10-21-2006, 12:13 PM
Back in the 60s My wifes unckle heard the dogs going off one night.He grabbed the rifle off the wall and went out.He snuck out back behind the barn and saw a tow truck hooking up to his brand new chevey pick up.Puttting the sneak on he came up on the farside of the pickup and all he could see was the foot of the guyhooking up the pickup with the intruders flashlight beam. so he shot the guys foot The guy went down and howled like the fire siren going off.He yelled for auntie to call the cops while he put another round in.When the cops got there about 45 min and got everything sorted out . The fella was repoeing the wrong pick up.Wrong address. Uncle showed the cops a bill of sale where he paid cash for the truck.Cops called it a justifieble shooting .Called the drivers boss had him come out and get the guy and haul him off to the local doctor and every body went home to bed. No charges were pressed.Getting shot in the foot had to feel way below average.

Buckshot
10-26-2006, 03:36 AM
Getting shot in the foot had to feel way below average.

..........Great story! Good thing I wasn't drinking anything or I'd have choked on it there at the last! I was thinking it might have been a bayonet story at first. I have a 1879 Argentine RB with the bayonet. Big ole yagtahan curved blade about 2.5' long. Put them together and they're about 7 ft long! Good for grounding the butt and using as a pike against cavalry back in the day.

................Buckshot

KCSO
10-26-2006, 04:06 PM
I've only had a couple of the 7mm rollies and both of them were brass eaters. The cases would seperate quicker than a 303. This was with factory ammo and I never tried cast in them.

vernz
11-03-2006, 11:06 AM
Hi,

I'm new to this forum, but not to cast bullet shooting. The 7x57 Rollling Blocks are notorious for not being reloader friendly due to liberal tolerances in the neck area. A few reloads without annealing and the case will crack in the neck area.
BTW, here's a couple of pictures of a 7x57 rolling block that gave way due to a loading error. It was a cast bullet (don't remember weight) with 10 grains of 2400. We believe the shooter double loaded the case. After the shot the barrel was at his feet, receiver 5 feet behind him and forend 35 feet to the front and right. He was lucky, only ending up with metal fragments in his finger that still bother him 3 years later.

Vern

Bob S
11-03-2006, 10:02 PM
That could spoil your whole day ....

I have a 7mm carbine, purchased at a show in Vallejo in 1977. It looked like it had been dragged through Hell. I just dug out the old data book on it. At the time, the only thing I had to load for it was an Ideal 310 tool, and my notes say that the case necks "expanded excessively", and resizing was difficult in the nutcracker tool, even though it was neck sizing only. I eventually opened up the "muzzle resizer" die so I was not working the brass so much. I did keep the cases well-annealed, because the light loads I was shooting would not reliably seal the bore otherwise. Notes also say that the factory 175 grain RN loads gave "excessive recoil", and printed about a foot and a half high at 100 yards.

The pic is a group I fired with a pre-historic Lee 130 grain mould (the ones that were held together with a sheet metal spring clip) and 14 grains of 2400, Remington cases, Rem 9-1/2 primers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/7mmRBLee130112400.jpg

This group goes about 3.8". The best, worst and "average" groups with just about everything I shot in this thing were about 4" at 100 yards, and for some strange reason that I cannot recall almost 30 years later, all groups that I fired with the little carbine were six shots. I do remember that I had to rest the thing on top of a .50 cal ammo box "padded" with one of my gloves: there is just no way to get into a sling with this thing.

I also shot the Sierra 120 gr sptizer with 32 grains of 3031, with the same results: about 4" at 100 yards. In retrospect, that's not that bad, but to a guy used to 1" to 1-1/2" groups with cast, it did not hold my interest for long. I don't think I've shot it since 1977.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

Lightning Ross
11-03-2006, 10:07 PM
Thats scary. It would leave a real impression on a fellow.I seem to be getting along with mine allright . Although about the best I can do with the stiff trigger is 21/2 to 3inches at 50 yards.I will have to go to the gym and and get a trainer to stengthen my trigger finger. I am using 168 grain gas check all i could find witha 285 dia and shooting at 1650 fps.The really interesing thing is even with light loads I am geting only 6-8 ft ps difference on an average of 5 shots over my crony

tinsmith
11-10-2006, 01:19 AM
I just purchased a 1902 Rolling Block in 7X57 and in excellent condition. I would like to shoot it with cast bullets. Great thread and very helpful.

I was wondering: If I breech seat the lead bullets then insert an unsized case that has been primed and charged with 14 - 16 grains of 2400 powder. I would use a tiny wad of dacron filler to keep the powder in place. Without sizing, Hopefully the cases would hold up longer.

Another thought: I can make my cases out of 30-06 brass with the sizing die adjusted for the correct case length. The resulting case neck walls should be thicker. Of course, I would still need to anneal the necks.

Do any of the ideas have merit? I would hate to have a blown up rifle or any parts permanently imbedded in my anamoty.

Buckshot
11-10-2006, 02:51 AM
................Don't recall making any 7x57 brass from 30-'06, but lots of 8mm! My M1897 only has the neck expansion issue with it's brass. Caselength, ie: Streatching isn't a problem.

http://www.fototime.com/51033A5247B82E1/standard.jpg

These 2 groups were fired with the M1897 Rem RB using the RCBS 7mm-168 slug and a casefull of surplus WC872 & WC860 (I think it was 57grs). This was at 50 yards and the velocity is next to each group. The as cast weight of this RCBS boolit from my mould with 18 bhn alloy is 172grs.

................Buckshot

vernz
11-10-2006, 07:34 PM
Don't misunderstand my post about the blown up 7x57 rolling Block. The failure had nothing to do with the generous chamber that causes excessive case neck expansion. The individual who reloaded used some ancient 2400 powder that wasn't even in a powder can (an old ink can with a tape label saying it was 2400). It either wasn't really 2400, or he double charged, or experienced detonation. Don't know for sure. He's in his 70's and uses lot's of old brass, primers from the 20's etc. The only issue with this rifle is that it is not reloader friendly due to the case expansion. I too had thought about using 30-06 cases for the thicker brass at the neck. Any thoughts on that?

Vern

Lightning Ross
11-10-2006, 11:14 PM
If you fire formed some cases then had custom collet die for neck sizing only makes a person go hmmmmm.Ido need to have some trigger work done before I get to excited.

MtGun44
12-03-2006, 12:01 AM
I've been loading for my Rem RB 7x57 1902 for years, and started shooting
a friends in 1966. These are not strong actions, but they are not extremely
weak if in good condition. Since my bore is pretty worn, I haven't tried cast,
but my rifle dearly loves 36 to 38 grains of 4064 behind a 175 gr Hornady
round nose. This will shoot under 1.5" for 5 shots at 100 yds with the stock
sights. Mine has a 2 lb crisp trigger. Took it apart when I bought it as I was
sure some numbskull had fiddled the trigger and made it unsafe. Not so, all
parts looked perfectly true, square and original patina everywhere. Sometimes
even a blind hog finds a turnip.

Neck sizing with a Lee collet die works great for mine and I get at least 3
loadings out of brass, but the chambers HAD to be large to ensure they
could use dirty ammo in a dirty chamber in a military situation with essentially
no camming power on the block. Use new Rem 7x57 brass, only neck size
and you should get minimum 4 firings out of the brass, likely more. I find a
moderate Lee Factory Crimp helps accy a bit with the Horn 175 RN.

Your mileage may vary. Be safe and work up slowly on the recommended
load - which I can only say is safe IN MY RIFLE, not sure about yours.

I do love that rifle.

I recently bought a 165 7mm RCBS mold, (IIRC) and plan on trying that CB in
the old Rolling Block one of these days.

I apologize for recommending a j*****ed bullet, but I just couldn't help
myself.

Bill

MtGun44
12-03-2006, 12:36 AM
I went back and checked and I had some 150 LBT cast loads do
reasonably well in the RB7x57, but not great.

I'll try to show you a group with the 175 Hornady RN.

Bill

Buckshot
12-04-2006, 03:00 PM
.................If the bore is worn you will be a lot better off with the Lyman 150gr Loverin. That RCBS 7mm-168 has a lot of nose to bore ride, and if the bore doesn't support it, it won't shoot. Well, not straight anyway :-)

................Buckshot

MtGun44
12-14-2006, 01:36 AM
Sounds right, I actually bought the mold for my Ruger M77 in 7x57, and
you're probably right about the bore rider design not having much
bore to ride on with worn, rounded off tops of the lands.

The few groups that I have shot with a LBT 150gr have shown signs of
the bullets tipping slightly and pretty poor groups, about 2 1/2 to 3 inches
at 50 yds. Have never slugged the bore, likely to be oversized due to
wear.

Bill