RANCH DOG boolit shooting problem

[jeff223]

went from shooting those nice round groups at 100yds to groups that had two boolits almost touching then a flier about 6 or 7 inchs out??these fliers might be high or low??

the thing that puzzles me the most about this batch of boolits is i took the time to weigh the boolits and these were all very close in weight.the ones i just loaded before were never weighted and they shot very good with no fliers

all these boolits looked good or i would of through them back to be remelted.im thinking a gas check comes off from time to time and thats what causing the strange fliers.what do you guys think?

i dont like this at all right before deer season.i might have to loadup and sight in a batch of 240gr XTPs

your thoughts please

[chunkum]

What tool are you using to seat the gas checks?
c.

[grumpy one]

I haven't examined recovered bullets, but I fondly imagine that I can tell whether gas checks are likely to come off from the way they feel when I push them on in the lubesizer. If all goes well there is a smooth push against a fair amount of resistance, the whole way as they slide on, but no sign of any lead cutting around the front edge of the check. When I knock down an unfired round with the kinetic bullet puller, the bullet nearly always comes out with the gas check still on it despite the case neck resistance. If they come off when you knock down the round, they might come off when you fire them - depending on just how much case neck resistance you have, of course.


Geoff

[twoworms]

I don't use a tool to set the gas checks on my 45-70 .460die boolits. I just stick them on by hand before loading them. The highpressure gases and the lands in the barrel do the rest. I don't think they have any chance of coming off. My Marlin 1895 shoots them well at 100yards loaded in this manner.

Good luck,

Tim

[Ranch Dog]

It sounds like your barrel is leading??? Or, is it just that one shot out there.

[drinks]

The gas presure and the lands do not always do the job.
I was told by a person that he lost a chrony due to a loose gas check.
I made a protector and mounted it in front of the screen on mine, was 2 layers of .093 Lexan, has been upgraded to 3 layers now.
I have had 3 gas check strikes, the first was a glancing strike catching the back edge of slot for the photocell,this was before I made the protector, the second made a 1/4 moon mark in the edge of the protector and the latest went through the first layer and cracked the second while melting itself into the Lexan,where it remains.
The reason for the 3rd layer.

[jeff223]

i seat the checks with a custom .432 Buckshot push through sizing die.

no leading in the bore from what i can see.in the morning i will clean the barrel again just to make sure.i use three coats of the ALOX and i didnt get leading before.i got these fliers on a number of targets too,not just on one

i have recovered some boolits from the bank that i shoot in but no checks on them.

this is just a guess on my part about the gas checks.is there a way to seat the checks better?i always wondered about that.with these tumble lube boolits that fall from the mold so close to what i need it would be nice to just seat the checks and not size them.any tool out there to seat the checks only?maybe i should lap the area on my mold where the check goes?

[grumpy one]

If you are consistently finding the recovered bullets don't have checks, it sounds as if retention may not be ideal at least. You may be able to check this, if you are using a private range, by setting up a screen a few yards in front of the bench and shooting through a hole in the screen. If after a while you find your shooting-hole surrounded by perforations, you will know what is causing them.

Can you feel the gas checks sliding over the bullet base when you seat them? I certainly can with my Lyman lubesizer, and if I get a slightly looser one occasionally I can't help noticing it. If you have good even tension in your checks after you have seated them, you should not lap the base of your mould, but if you do not have much tension, lapping the base of the mould may be the answer. The reason not to lap the mould anyway on a "more is better" basis is that if the base is too much bigger than the check, instead of stretching the check as it slips on, you will shear the bullet base down to the size of the check, and finish up with little or no stretch and therefore no check retention.

Unless you are annealing your gas checks, trying to use the sizing die to crimp them is a mixed blessing at best. Hard checks have spring-back, so crimping them with the sizing die just guarantees they will end up loose (unless the bullet is just as springy as the copper, which is asking a lot). The tension that holds the check onto the bullet base comes from the stretching of the check when it is forced onto the bullet base. This is why you should use a guide, such as a lubesizer, for this operation: if you hammer the check on crooked, even if it ends up straight it has mashed the lead out of the way while it was going on, and you end up with a looser check than if you had forced it on straight. Similarly, if any lead is sheared off the bullet base while seating the check, you no longer have a stretched check and therefore you have little or no tension to hold it on.

[Newtire]

i seat the checks with a custom .432 Buckshot push through sizing die.

no leading in the bore from what i can see.in the morning i will clean the barrel again just to make sure.i use three coats of the ALOX and i didnt get leading before.i got these fliers on a number of targets too,not just on one

i have recovered some boolits from the bank that i shoot in but no checks on them.

this is just a guess on my part about the gas checks.is there a way to seat the checks better?i always wondered about that.with these tumble lube boolits that fall from the mold so close to what i need it would be nice to just seat the checks and not size them.any tool out there to seat the checks only?maybe i should lap the area on my mold where the check goes?

HI Jeff,
Sounds like you may have barrel bedding problems. If possible, try & correct that. I also haven't been putting anymore than one coat of Liquid Alox on & have been pushing those Ranch Dog bullets with maximum charges of H 4198 in my Marlin micro-groove rifle. Only thing ever leaded that gun was a bunch of undersized store-bought bullets (.429") back before I knew any better.

I seem to have that same problem with my Ruger Automatic rifle in that the first shot is 2" to the right of the others. I haven't looked at it real close. The shell casings go up out of the chamber & hit the scope on the way out on that thing so I put a toolbox foam padding "scope-bra" around it with velcro but get the first shot to right thing about half the time.

[Junior1942]

Take enough naked bullets to shoot two groups, and put a daub of epoxy on the base of each bullet before you seat the gas checks and lube or size them. If you still get flyers, it ain't the gas checks coming off.

[Leftoverdj]

Gluing GCs to the base introduces a new set of problems. My method is to tap the top edge of the GC with a dull chisel. Doing it twice produces four burrs at 90 degree angles to each other. Sizing sinks those burrs into the shank.

I don't think there is a real universal solution. There are too many tolerances involved and they can add up. Changing alloys can vary shank diameter. GCs a thou thin would add two thous to the needed shank. Sizing .432 adds another .003. I'd lap that shank a mite, but that might make the shank too fat for the next batch of GCs.

[44man]

I make my moulds so I have to start the gas check and tap the boolit a bunch of times on the bench top to seat them. They are tight! I then run the boolits into my lube sizer just deep enough to crimp them without sizing the boolit.
Running them through a push through sizer nose first will not seat then properly. Try turning the boolit around.
If your checks fit loose, then lap the mould until they fit tight. Anneal them if you have to. A lost check is a lost boolit!
I have found boolits out behind my range that went through dirt and bounced out, still had the checks on them. Once I crimp them, I can't get one off with a screwdriver. I don't like to place a gas check in my sizing die and just set a boolit into it, too loose!

[jeff223]

thanks guys for all the ideas.i will be trying differant things out until i get what i want.

on another note.the price of 100 Hornady 44cal,240gr XPTs are now $19.99+sales tax at the Gander Mountianhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
can you beleive that?

[drinks]

Jeff, YES!

[78CJ]

Are you using a scope?

[jeff223]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid216/p9814fc5479b29e96e77aa79f29ea199c/ec9985bc.jpg

heres what im shooting and i had very good results with my 187gr .358 group buy boolit that i make.i have a SSK stainless steel 357max G2 with a 3-9 Burris scope with an AO

the other one is a 445supermag tender scoped with a Burris 2-7

the 357max group was shot at 100yds and measured in at 1 an 1/8 inch center to center

the 445sm was shot at 100yds but i shot that group with Hornady 240gr XTPS


these are proven barrels as you can see.i dont have much time shooting cast boolits under my belt but i made the Lee 180s work for me and the RANCH DOGS did shoot.thats what makes me think there is a gas check problem

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid216/p016090a076ff1b526226e6ead42f977d/ec9983cc.jpg
sorry about the jacketed boolit shown in the picture but its to close to deer season to monkey around any longer.i had to do it