Need help with cartridge ID

[KYCaster]

A friend cleaned out his reloading room and gave me all the loose ammo he scrounged up. A lot of it was picked up of the range at various PPC and IPSC matches. (45ACP, 38spl., 40S&W. 38Super) All of that will probably get tossed since I'm not too keen on shooting ammo of questionable pedigree. With a few exceptions, the rifle ammo is in pretty sorry shape and if I can't determine any collector value, I'll toss them also, but not being a collector myself, I need some help.

1) The first one is just a curio, It's the only one I haven't been able to ID. It's obviously a military round and doesn't have a head stamp. Bullet dia. is .310 and case rim dia. is .475. Case length is 2.260 and COAL is 3.142. The bullet is a spitzer shape and has a red laquer sealer at the case mouth. Neither the bullet nor the case is attracted to a magnet. It will not fit into a 30-06 shellholder and fits loosly in a 6.5x55 holder. It goes into a 41mag. shellholder like it was made for it. Could someone with a C.O.T.W. look it up for me?

2) Next is head stamped W.R.A.Co. .25-35 W.C.F. and has an odd looking two piece primer. It is a copper colored center with a W stamped on it surrounded by a brass colored ring.

3) This is a 30-40 Krag with no head stamp. It has a round nosed bullet with a cupro-nickel jacket. I assume the lack of a head stamp indicates it's military issue.

4) This one is a 45-70. The head stamp has a letter F at 12:00, the number 86 at 4:30 and the number 10 at 7:30. It has a lead RN bullet .445-.448 dia. and COAL is 2.812.

5) I have four of these. They're 45-70. The head stamp has U.M.C. at 12:00, 45-70 at 6:00, the letter S at 9:00 and the letter H at 3:00. They have a lead RN bullet of .452-.454 dia. and ~2.730 COAL.

Can anybody give me any info on these. I'd like to know approximate age and if they have any collector interest. I'd hate to throw out something that someone else may find useful.

Thanks for any help you can give me.
Jerry

[NVcurmudgeon]

KY caster, 1. Looks like 7.7 X 58 Japanese military. Japan did not headstamp
cartridges, red seal is typical, case length is right on.

2. Don't know exactly when, but the "w" makes it a Winchester
factory round.

3. Never saw an American Krag cartridge w/o headstamp. Did you
measure it?

4. Frankford arsenal US Military round made October 1886. No doubt
a collector's item.

5. Commercial Union Metallic Cartridge Company, The company that
later bought Remington. The letters "S" and "H" indicate solid
head construction, a point of pride in a day when many cartridges
were of the old-fashioned balloon head type.

I am sure all of these have at least some collector value, but I am far from a cartridges expert.

[w30wcf]

KYCaster,

Since NVcurmudgeon nailed down 1, 4 & 5, I'll try the others with added info for #5.

The WRA CO .25-35 cartridge dates to pre 1920, as that's the approximate time the 5W primer (small rifle primer in a bushing / cup - see my avatar) was replaced with the # 24NF large rifle primer. If there is a "W" on the side of the bullet, the cartridge was made between 1904 and 1920. If not, it was produced between 1895 and 1903. THe "W" (Winchester) on the primer designates smokeless powder. Value <$5

I have seen a few .30-40 catridges with no headstamp. My guess is that they are very early issue. Value ?

U.M.C. .45-70 S H - Late 1800's to very early 1900's - Actually the SH (Solid Head) was meant to identify the cartridge from the earlier folded head case construction. Both types were of balloon head design. Another designation for them was Solid Head Button Pocket. Value $5 - $7 ea.

Hope that helps,
w30wcf

[floodgate]

Kycaster:

I believe the odd primer-within-a-primer on No. 2 was to minimize the chance of a magazine blowup with an RN bullet; I seem to remember U. S. Cartridge Co. used these too for a while.

floodgate

[KYCaster]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Curmudgeon: 1) I didn't even consider the 7.7 Jap. cause I used a '06 shellholder when I loaded for it and this round wouldn't fit. Dug out an old box of Norma and measurements agree except for rim dia. that prevents this one from going in the shellholder.

3) Definitely 30-40 Krag. Measurements agree with current commercial ammo.

John: 2) Can't find a W on the side of the bullet. There is some corrosion, but I think it would be evident if it was there.

I'm always amazed at the depth of knowledge the members of this board possess. Thanks again for the help.

I finished sorting this stuff and found a few others that may be of interest, though not nearly as unusual as the ones listed earlier.

6) Two "REM-UMC 45 GOVT" JSP.
One "WESTERN 45-70 GOVT" JSP.

7) Four "REM-UMC 30USA" JSP.
One "W-W SUPER 30-40 KRAG" JSP.

8) One "PETERS 30-30" JHP.

9) One "U.S.C. Co. 32 S&W. L" lead RN.

10) Two "REM-UMC 32 WCF" one JFP, one LFP.
Two "WRA 32 WCF" LFP.
One "WESTERN 32-20 WIN" JSP.

11) One "W.R.A.Co. 32 S&W." LRN with copper colored primer.

12) Six "WESTERN 38 S&W" FMJ

13) Eight "R-P 351 WIN SL" JSP. 351 Win Self Loading...looks like fairly recent manufacture, but I can't find in on their website, so assume it's discontinued.

Also one very odd looking 9mm. It has an FC headstamp, but I've never seen anything like it. (may be a reload?) I'll see if I can get a pic in here.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/KYCaster/000_0399.jpg

I'll probably list these on the auction site just to see what happens. Interest would have to be fairly substantial considering the cost of shipping ammo. Last time I shipped any, UPS ground was the only option available and cost about twelve dollars for a two pound package.