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six_gun
10-06-2006, 11:59 PM
Okay Guys,

I need some help in identifying and approximate worth of a 22 auto rifle that was stolen from my mother-in-law’s house.

I think my father-in-law got this gun in France when he was serving there as a US Air Force Fighter pilot.

It had a full stock and I think it was tube fed but could have been a clip. The barrel was at least 20 inches but could have been longer.

The most unique thing about this gun was the firing pin. It was circular instead of a pin like most guns. I thought this was pretty neat because instead of making one dent in the rimfire case, it dented the whole rim, all the way around. In fact I think that this is such a good idea, it may not have been French.

Anyway, it was stolen from her house, by her oldest son, along with about 5 other really neat guns. I have identified all of them and priced them. My mother-in-law is on her last legs and the executor of the will wants a ballpark figure, (high) to deduct the cost of the guns from the oldest son’s inheritance. No he is not willing to let anyone appraise these guns, in fact he is down right nasty about this subject so I am not looking to him for any help.

Thanks, Sixgun

bruce drake
10-07-2006, 01:55 AM
Theft is the unauthorized taking of material or items. Son or not, he'll perk up when there is a Deputy Sheriff serving a warrant for his arrest on his doorstep. The rifles are the property of your mother in law as the surviving spouse of the original owner. Having her or her executer swear the warrant out would serve the family best.

Bruce

fatnhappy
10-07-2006, 07:41 AM
the executer need not swear the warrant, nor is empowered to while she still lives. She must file the complaint, and possession of a stolen firearm is a felony in and of itself, at least here in NY.

mooman76
10-07-2006, 11:14 AM
The gun is worth $1,000,000.00

Now he has to bring it forward to prove other wise!

six_gun
10-08-2006, 09:23 PM
The mother-in-law would never swear out a warrent on her son, but the executor a power of attorney. So Does my wife, maybe one of them would do it.

Sixgun

7br
10-10-2006, 06:51 AM
Sixgun - My advice is to tread softly and consider the consequences. My grandfather died from alzheimers and my grandmother suffered a stroke and lingered for several years after. My father and uncles went around about things. Nasty things were said on all sides during this emotional time. 60 odd years of semi forgotten slights and percieved slights were dredged up. It has been 10 years and the four brothers are just barely talking now.

Why did he snag the guns? I know I probably have more of an attachment to my father's firearms than my siblings. ( I know that I would not handle the situation the way the older brother did) Is he worried that he can't afford them and would like to keep them in the family? Does the mother know the reason?

How much are the firearms worth and how much is family harmony worth? I am not saying to drop it, but do your level best to be fair. I would really make sure I didn't get sucked into a tit for tat situation for my own piece of mind.

Just my .02 and observations.

imashooter2
10-10-2006, 08:06 AM
Sound advice from 7br. In the grand scheme of things, how much money are we talking here? Is it worth tearing the family apart?

fatnhappy
10-10-2006, 09:59 AM
7br took the thread another direction, and he's right. Your MIL is still alive, talk to her. Just because someone is the executor doesn't mean she can't dispose of her possessions while she's able, without regard to the written will. Ask her about the rifle and respect her enough to let her determine the rifle's disposition. If she says he can have it, so be it. If She says, he can have it but it's worth $X then so be it.

I've been down this road recently, and still am resolving my mother's estate. Power of attorney is more or less useless when dealing with an estate, it expires on death. The executor has limited power, in so far as he must disposition the estate according to the will, but the reality is that possession is still 9/10 of the law. If you intend to take action, the time to do it is now while your MIL is alive.

KCSO
10-10-2006, 12:06 PM
Six Gun
I get this thing all the time and this is just a hint...
It may be French?
It may have a tube or a clip with a full stock?

Thats real slim pickin's for id ing a rifle. The firing pin thing might indicate that it was a UNIQUE, maybe. And as to value it could be $10 or $1000 dollars depending on condition, and I don't mean "it looked pretty good when I saw it last". So many folks look a a 1 of a 1000 W 73 sell for $250,000 and then think that their rusty relic is worth that too. I refuse to set a value on any gun I can't see personally as photo's can lie. I recommend that everyone with guns have them professionally evaluated and documented because things like this happen.

Now you both end up in small claims court and the gun is sold and you need a value and he says well it must have been worth $10 because that was the best offer I got. The judge will go with that because it is the only concrete evidence submitted.

I agree that you need to do something quick before the gun is gone for good, even if you have to sneak up and ask for a picture of the old gun just to remember it by. Then when you have something solid in hand file suit or file charges.

wills
10-10-2006, 01:54 PM
He will still probably need an accurate description of the gun if he wants to get a writ of replevin.

carpetman
10-10-2006, 02:17 PM
Yea I certainly figured an accurate description to get a writ of replevin would be needed. I never heard of a case of writ of replevin without an accurate description. BTW what is a writ of replevin? That's a new one on me.

six_gun
10-10-2006, 03:57 PM
Its all good advice and it is appreciated. In my family we all get along fine and when my parents died we divided things up and everyone went away happy.

Not so with my wife's family. The two boys are both alcholics and do drugs and are only happy when they are fighting. The two girls get along fine and are trying to take care of their mother the best that they can. Both girls hunt and have sons that hunt. They wanted a chance at the guns. The older boy went over and took the guns. He does not hunt or shoot often. He took a Sako Deluxe in 243 with a Luplod scope, a pre 64 model 94 in mint condiction, a Browning double auto in mint condiction, a Ithica 16 ga pump shotgun, a Ruger Flatop in 357, and the 22 rifle. He also helped himself to all of his dad's jewlery which had lots of gold chains and such. I think he has probably sold the stuff to support his drug habbit.

Anyway, when it comes right down to it. The executor says she will assign an approximate value to the guns and deduct that amount from the inheritance going to that person. This is probably a good thing because people like him do better without lots of money at hand and I don't think he will hire a lawyer to fight it. He is the kind of person that stays away from people who may ask personal questions about him, they may find out what he is doing. He will complain and threaten but that is all.

Thanks for your help,
Sixgun