Lee 452-200-RF mold... lube without sizing???

[mikeg1005]

So began casting for my 1911... I shoot a lot of ipsc and decided to save some money by adding another bullet type to cast... for simplicity and cost I bought the Lee 452-200-RF 6 cavity mold... I can crank out a good 500-600 an hour without too much effort... I might switch over to a 230gr since this exact mold isn't 1911 friendly(it works but you have to load them very shallow)

Now the slow part... we have an RCBS lube-a-matic... IMHO, its a pain in the ass to use and slow if you lube and size.

I'm going to give pan lubing. My mold seems to drop bullets very close to .452" dia... in fact sometimes when they pass through the .452" die in the lube/sizer it doesn't always touch/swage the bullet.... conventional wisdom would tell me that I could skip on the sizing part.

Just wanted to see if anyone here uses this exact mold and skip on sizing(only lube) and had good results... this would save me a TON of time.

MIke.

[RobS]

I've actually used TL alox mix on the bullets and it worked quite well at lower end velocities (700-740fps); no sizing at all when I did this. Accuracy was no different than when I sized them.

I believe you would be good to go pan lubing.

[HammerMTB]

I agree- I think you should try TLing them in LLA. I do this with .40 cal, and it works well. I can't imagine it not working in your application. Once you do, you won't want to use a lube/sizer anymore. I know I looked for ways to avoid it.... :bigsmyl2:


I've actually used TL alox mix on the bullets and it worked quite well at lower end velocities (700-740fps); no sizing at all when I did this. Accuracy was no different than when I sized them.

I believe you would be good to go pan lubing.

[Cowboy T]

I have that exact mould and have made thousands of boolits with it for use with .45 Colt. All of my boolits, including these, are TL'd. These are shot at about 850 fps, and I have zero leading in my gun. Matter of fact, we just shot a video series about this and hope to have it uploaded by the end of the week.

For running through the sizing die, I'd use a very light coat of LLA. That's all you need.

BTW, I've tested tumble-lubing at velocities even up to 1,400 fps. It's fine at those velocities, too. For these "magnum" velocities, typically I'll use a medium coat after sizing, if sizing is necessary.

[camaro1st]

so is the sizing really needed at all on tl boolits or is it just good practice ?

[chris in va]

Lee suggests it's not necessary to size TL bullets.

On a side note, my Lee 452-228-1R mold comes out at 452 and leaves zero lead smears in my Glock 21 using JPW and mineral spirits, as recommended by wise people on this board. It has to be seated very deeply though to chamber.

[prickett]

Lee suggests it's not necessary to size TL bullets.

On a side note, my Lee 452-228-1R mold comes out at 452 and leaves zero lead smears in my Glock 21 using JPW and mineral spirits, as recommended by wise people on this board. It has to be seated very deeply though to chamber.

+1 for tumble lubing. I too have a RCBS LAM2, but MUCH prefer using the Lee sizer if I can. Luckily, the .45 is very TL friendly.

Regarding the "it's not necessary to size TL bullets" - I believe that refers to TL molds (i.e. the bullets with the micro grooves). You should still size your bullets if they aren't of the TL design (which the 200 RF isn't)

[noylj]

I have tried "everything" over the past 30 years and best I have found, so far, is to shoot as-cast bullets that have been tumble lubed in LLA. I pour about 500 bullets into a casserole dish (that is only used for this purpose), squirt a little LLA on, and then shuffle the bullets around for a minute or until all the bullets have a shiny wet look. None of them should show a golden brown color, unless you want to be sure there is an excess of lube. I do use a bit more LLA on my 9x19 and .40 bullets than on the .45s.
This works in 9x19, .40S&W, and .45ACP. Sized bullets, in general, are not as accurate as my as-cast loads in my guns. It just doesn't get simpler than this.
Some day, I will try Recluse's formula with Johnson Paste Wax and LLA. I also may try pan lubing again with Carnauba Red or BAC (beeswax, Alox, and Carnauba wax, I believe).
I don't mind tacky LLA-coated bullets. I do care about cost, time spent, accuracy, and barrel leading.

[patsher]

Oh, noylj, you'll love Recluse's formula with JPW, LLA and mineral spirits, prepared just as he explains. It dries MUCH MUCH faster than the straight LLA, which I used to do also. The bullets feel kind of hard/slick, and dry in just 2-3 hours here in the mountain west! Best thing I ever did!

Just my $.02 worth.

[mikeg1005]

Sorry, I should have mentioned... I bought that mold in the NON- tumble lube style... it has a crimp groove and one lube groove in it.

I'm trying to see if I can get away with pan lubing and then just loading them w/o resizing as they seem to be dropping in the right size.

MIke.

[44man]

Sorry, I should have mentioned... I bought that mold in the NON- tumble lube style... it has a crimp groove and one lube groove in it.

I'm trying to see if I can get away with pan lubing and then just loading them w/o resizing as they seem to be dropping in the right size.

MIke.
Yes, pan lube and make a cake cutter to slide over the boolits to remove excess lube.
I use lapped out Lee size dies for that but I also rub Felix lube into the grooves by hand.
I hate Alox and don't care what you mix it with.

[chris in va]

BTW, I've discovered just straight JPW and MS works a lot better than LLA, and there's no stickiness once it's dried in a couple hours. I turn a fan on it, makes it dry faster.

[prs]

Harrrrrrrrrr. Dat be a 45 Colt boolit and you need a Colt 45 boolit.

Having problems with unsized pills depends on how the mold drops (Doug Boochman at Lee told me that their 45 Colt molds drop a bit bigger than 452) and how tight your chamber(s) is/are. My Ruger SA revolvers can handle most anything I cast unsized. My Colt clones are more persnickity. If I am using smokeless powder and tumble lubed pills, I often coat lightly, let cure and size in the Lee press through sizer before coating again. If you gun chambers the unsized pills reliably, no need to bother, the barrel is gonna final size them regardless.

prs

[mikeg1005]

The other question I had.... those of you running this mold in a 45acp 1911... are you have issues with the bullet???? I have to seat mine really shallow to get them not to hit the lands.

MIke.

[RobS]

I am trying to figure out, "seating them shallow" "to not hit the lands" Wouldn't you have to seat them deeper so the bullet wouldn't hit the lands i.e. chamber.

[mikeg1005]

Sorry about the word choice.

Yes, I have to seem them deeper into the case... OAL is near 1.150" for it to work and this isn't very magazine friendly.. almost always causes the last round to stand up in the mag.... so I have to load a different bullet in to avoid this which is a little annoying.

MIke.

[RobS]

MIke:

You may need to look into a SWC design. It seems that lately Lee's molds are dropping right at diameter from WW alloy; well at least for the 45 cal molds. It's always the luck of the draw though when it comes to regular production molds.

[Jech]

I just picked up a Lee 6-cav 452-200-RF as well. I've mic'd about 50 boolits of the 200ish I cast on saturday with WW alloy and every single one was right in that sweet spot: .452"-4528". Even though I absolutely could have shot them unsized, I ran them through my Lee sizer anyway just to guarantee consistency. My boolits get 1 light coat of Recluse's 45/45/10 both before and after the sizer also.

Seated to the crimp groove gives an OAL of 1.19" where I apply a light taper crimp taking the case mouth down to .472" with Winchester brass or .469" with Remington brass.

I went through about 150 of these yesterday at an unofficial IDPA match-turned-fun-day where we used all steel targets instead of the usual cardboard cutouts...a real kick in the pants! Anyways, it was the first time ever that I've walked away from the range with a completely leading-free barrel! 5.3gr of HP-38 lit by a CCI large pistol primer is accurate enough in my hands to knock down poppers at 50+ yards.

I'm shooting mine out of a Springfield Armory XD45 Tactical so my operating conditions are going to be fairly different but I hope that was helpful :)