Horse laid over on Marlin GG and now it won't shoot worth beans!

[DanWalker]

Hey guys,
My bud's shire colt laid over on his Guide gun and now it won't shoot worth beans! He had been regularly picking off beer cans at 100 yards with this rifle. Now he's struggling to keep 10 shots on a full sized rifle sight in target at that range. He said the sights are tight and there isn't a visible bend in the barrel. Any ideas?

[Doc Highwall]

DanWalker, make sure the butt stock is tight and that it is not cracked.

[old turtle]

If I am not mistaken this gun has a tube type magazine under the barrel. This could be bent putting pressure on the barrel. I would also check the fore arm for pressure on the barrel. I am not a gunsmith just a know it all

[HeavyMetal]

Something's bent or loose I garontee.

Call around a few auto machine shops and see if someone has a machine straight edge as used to determine the flatness of a cyclinder head.

Then as if you can bring in the rifle and lay the straight edge along the barrel and then the barrel and reciever.

I think you'll be surprised.

[akajun]

Check the muzzle crown for a ding.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Oh Lordy! That is a nightmare of mine... Did ya ever watch some of the old westerns where the fellas ride into town and as soon as they tie up their horse and get ready to walk in somewhere, they pull their carbine out of the scabbard (often along with their saddlebags), even when there's no shoot-out? This is why. (That plus theft, I'm sure.)

I wish I could give better advice than what the guys said above. Looking down or along the barrel won't be good enough to tell whether it's still straight or not. Check the stocks (front and back) for tightness, cracks, or warpage. Check the mag tube (though with the hanger system vs. the barrel-band system, I doubt this would be that much of an issue). Check the barrel/receiver junction. A complete tear-down of the rifle is in order. Most of the damage won't be able to be seen without taking it apart quite aways.

Bottom line is he may be in a position to make a choice - He can sell it as a junked gun and put a down-payment on a new one, or he can send it off to a good lever-smith and in the process of fixing the damage, "upgrade" it to something a little customized. (Octagon barrel, different stock, etc.) If he sells it as a junker, someone else would be buying it probably to do just this.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Hey guys,
My bud's shire colt laid over on his Guide gun and now it won't shoot worth beans! He had been regularly picking off beer cans at 100 yards with this rifle. Now he's struggling to keep 10 shots on a full sized rifle sight in target at that range. He said the sights are tight and there isn't a visible bend in the barrel. Any ideas?

I never hunted from horseback, but your story illustrates the point that I heard an old buckaroo make. "Always take your rifle when you get off the horse. That way, if the horse runs off you can always shoot it and get your saddle back."

[home in oz]

Let me guess-it was during the beginning of hunting season, or right before hunting season?

[WILCO]

Take the gun to a "Smith" and have it checked out.

[ReloaderFred]

You should see the "horror board" at Leupold Scopes' plant, just outside the door of the repair shop. The majority of the scopes that can't be repaired had something to do with a horse. Next are pickup truck incidents.

I would guess something is either bent or loose. This rifle will need some professional attention, possibly from Marlin.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[rintinglen]

:kidding:Well, at least it will still hold minute-of-horse.

Carefully check the stock and the foreend. Make sure they are tight--even a little play will result in shots meandering.

Make darned sure the sights are firmly attached. If they wobble at all with slight finger pressure, there is an issue that must be resolved.

Use as straight edge and be certain the barrel hasn't been bent. If it has been bent even slightly, the fore end and its mounting hardware may put unequal and variable pressure on the barrel, resulting in bullets splattering around.

Carefully compare the relationship of the magazine and the related hardware (barrel bands and the like) and the barrel. Is it twisted or off kilter? Inconsistent torque will also change bullet impact. If possible, put it side by side with another Marlin to make any dammage more easily discernable.

Finally, consider using larger targets--equine targets.:kidding:

[missionary5155]

Good morning Dan
I would remove the forearm and mag tube, check that rear stock and sights. Fire a group. You may have a stressed receiver / barrel joint. Barrel wobble or misalignment with the bolt face is a real bugaboo. If that basic assembly shoots good it is just a stress from the forearm or mag tube which is an easier repair.

[Doc Highwall]

The way I look at it is, a bent barrel will only basically move the group and maybe open it a little. My first suspicion is something is loose causing the impact to change during recoil if the sights are indeed tight. I remember when a friend of mine put a new 30-30 barrel on his Stevens 44-1/2 and when we went to sight it in their was not enough windage to sight it in but it shot a small group. What he found out later was the gun drill had wandered about the last 4"-6" near the muzzle and the broach just followed it. This is the same as a bent barrel, and after he cut that part off and re-crowned it he was able to sight it in. So I would still say something is loose. What kind of sights are on the gun?

[redneckdan]

Shoulda put the kick stand down before getting off the horse....:kidding:




Anyway, I would recommend sending it back to marlin. The would probably be the most likely to find any problems present and probably would be the cheapest to fix it.

[Artful]

Shoulda put the kick stand down before getting off the horse....:kidding:



Anyway, I would recommend sending it back to marlin. The would probably be the most likely to find any problems present and probably would be the cheapest to fix it.


Yep, best option if neither of you wants to play smith.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Only problem with that is there is no more Marlin. He'd have to send it to Marlington. Now, there's at least two ways to look at the situation -- 1) Remington, with their broader experience and eagerness to make the Marlin transition look as seemless as possible will handle this well and quick, or 2) Remington, having gotten rid of most of the Marlin employees and being a conglomerate trying to cut costs, has some minimum wage teenagers in the warranty dept., and you're rifle will fall into a black hole and never be seen again...

Not sure which one you'd get, which is why I recommended sending it to a 'smith who knows leverguns...

[Doc Highwall]

A friend of mine, his last day there was 11/11/10 as a manufacturing engineer.

[EDK]

Doc Highwall's buddy is another symptom of a crummy economy...and bean counters running the show.

It's hard to find a new MARLIN around St Louis MO...and I'm not sure I'd want one assembled by someone counting the days to unemployment or forced retirement. I'm buying used or "new old stock" guns lately.

I'm 62 and could go out with a fair pension now, but the insurance is a killer until medi-care and I got nothing better to do than go to work....most of the time.

Horses ain't the sharpest tool in the shed....and mules do little mean things on purpose. A good one is a treasure....and it's a shame that the bad ones ain't edible! I bought the first horse in 1967....buried the last one spring of 2009.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[Guesser]

I've had two accidents with horses and guns. Both times it ended in a crooked barrel. One was a Marlin 336 in a saddle scabbard and happened just as you described. The other was a S&W Model 57 in a holster laying on a pile of my gear when a green broke colt got a whiff of blood and went nuts and landed on my pile of gear, new shoes on the colt and my holster with the 41 magnum in it hit the ground and the colt stepped on it, crooked barrel, sliced clear thru that holster and put a big ding in the left side of the barrel.

[DanWalker]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll let my buddy know.
No way he'd shoot that horse. Poor thing is just a big dumb kid(the horse). His name is Jasper and he'd never been to the mountains before last month. Quick story about him in the mountains. My friends dad was riding Jasper, and I was on Louie the wonderhorse, and my bud was on his shire mare. Well, EVERYTHING in the mountains was new and kinda scary to Jasper. We were riding out to glass some high country meadows for deer. Jasper was in the lead. I was riding second, and my bud was riding trail. Jasper came to a spot where the trail passed between some pines with overhanging limbs. He flatly refused to go through, so I just rode around him to show him it was nothing dangerous. Well, about the time me and Louie clear the trees, Louie spots his favorite playthings in the whole world.(free range cows) Louie locks up on point, just quivering with excitement. I'm sensing what's about to happen, and clamp down hard on him, to stop him from chasing after those cows. Well, unknown to me, Jasper finally found his nerve, and went through the trees. The big dummy just plows headfirst right into Louies butt, and the rodeo is ON! Louie blew up and took off running, and all i could hear from my friends was,"STAY WITH HIM DAN!!!!" I didn't get thrown, and managed to get him shut down before he killed us both. My buds are pretty tough old cowboys. They said my ride lacked any artistic ambience, and refused to award me my buckle. I also think they were probably a bit peeved about the bite marks my butt left in that antique saddle I was riding.

[redneckdan]

A good one is a treasure....and it's a shame that the bad ones ain't edible!

Never hearda sauerbraten eh? :drinks:

[btroj]

Just one more reason I stay away from horses. And I don't need more reasons.

Brad

[scrapcan]

Dan,

pull that rifle down and do as mentioned with the checks mentioned above. And while you guys have it to bits, with the bolt out hold it up to a bright light and look down the barrel. You should see concentric rings of light as it comes down the barrel. if you see a dark spot and funky looking light streaks and nto rings you might have a bent barrel.

Do this with one of your bolt guns to get a feel for the process.

Or send it to a lever gun guy.

PS I have been on and around several episodes like the one you guys had. It also generally entails a nice brisk fall morning and the ground can be hard as one does not always get to stay in the warm seat of their saddle.

[MtGun44]

Hunted on horseback a few times, so far have not personally participated in the
'freestyle hunting rodeo' event. Sorry to hear about the GG, a very nice rifle.

I'd look at the muzzle for a ding first, then cracked buttstock.

Bill

[Suo Gan]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll let my buddy know.
No way he'd shoot that horse. Poor thing is just a big dumb kid(the horse). His name is Jasper and he'd never been to the mountains before last month. Quick story about him in the mountains. My friends dad was riding Jasper, and I was on Louie the wonderhorse, and my bud was on his shire mare. Well, EVERYTHING in the mountains was new and kinda scary to Jasper. We were riding out to glass some high country meadows for deer. Jasper was in the lead. I was riding second, and my bud was riding trail. Jasper came to a spot where the trail passed between some pines with overhanging limbs. He flatly refused to go through, so I just rode around him to show him it was nothing dangerous. Well, about the time me and Louie clear the trees, Louie spots his favorite playthings in the whole world.(free range cows) Louie locks up on point, just quivering with excitement. I'm sensing what's about to happen, and clamp down hard on him, to stop him from chasing after those cows. Well, unknown to me, Jasper finally found his nerve, and went through the trees. The big dummy just plows headfirst right into Louies butt, and the rodeo is ON! Louie blew up and took off running, and all i could hear from my friends was,"STAY WITH HIM DAN!!!!" I didn't get thrown, and managed to get him shut down before he killed us both. My buds are pretty tough old cowboys. They said my ride lacked any artistic ambience, and refused to award me my buckle. I also think they were probably a bit peeved about the bite marks my butt left in that antique saddle I was riding.

I am glad it is the gun that got bent and not you!

[azcruiser]

OK try this move the gun holder scabard? spelling to the other side and have the horse roll over it again .Think positive thoughts and shoot ??

[MGySgt]

Really sounds like the magazine tube is bent putting pressure on the barrel.

Remove the magazine tube and foreend. Bench rest it on the front of the receiver to test fire.

You would be suprised at how that magazine tube preasure can cause your boolits to go haywire.

Drew

[DanWalker]

Really sounds like the magazine tube is bent putting pressure on the barrel.

Remove the magazine tube and foreend. Bench rest it on the front of the receiver to test fire.

You would be suprised at how that magazine tube preasure can cause your boolits to go haywire.

Drew
I hear you Top.
Wouldn't that pressure cause the POI to move consistently though?
His gun is making patterns instead of groups.

[rintinglen]

I hear you Top.
Wouldn't that pressure cause the POI to move consistently though?
His gun is making patterns instead of groups.
not consistently. As the barrel warms as additional shots go through it, the stresses on the barrel change, altering the vibration nodes and scatterring the shots. The problem is that the stresses are not constant. Sounds a little screwy but I have seen accuracy problems with a Winchester 94 disappear when a new, straight mag tube was installed.

[MGySgt]

I hear you Top.
Wouldn't that pressure cause the POI to move consistently though?
His gun is making patterns instead of groups.

By relieving the pressure of the mage tube on the barrel, it caused 3 other 1895's to go from patterns to groups. They were all older Marlins. I thinned a washer down to just fit between the barrel and the mag tube and went from plus 5 inch groups to sub moa.

Think of a wooden stock touching a barrel near the end of the forearm and what it does to groups.

Now how bad is the bend in the mag tube? That would dictate the degree of the pressure.

We don't know if this is the problem, but it is real easy to check, and only takes a few rounds.

One other thing - don't try and load it through the loading gate with the mag tube off. Don't sak how I know. :)

Drew

[SharpsShooter]

You have my sympathy. I've suffered a few horse wrecks and participated in too many of those unplanned rodeo shows. We always carried when checking cows and fences from horseback. Going (read sliding) down a steep shale bank, Monty lost his feet and we went down hard enough that it made toothpicks of the grip of the Ruger Super BH I was carrying.

Good advice given above to have a lever gun expert check it. Hopefully they can get you shooting straight again

SS

[Phat Man Mike]

wow that bite's!! hope you get the lever gun fixed! :)

[badgeredd]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll let my buddy know.
No way he'd shoot that horse. Poor thing is just a big dumb kid(the horse). His name is Jasper and he'd never been to the mountains before last month. Quick story about him in the mountains. My friends dad was riding Jasper, and I was on Louie the wonderhorse, and my bud was on his shire mare. Well, EVERYTHING in the mountains was new and kinda scary to Jasper. We were riding out to glass some high country meadows for deer. Jasper was in the lead. I was riding second, and my bud was riding trail. Jasper came to a spot where the trail passed between some pines with overhanging limbs. He flatly refused to go through, so I just rode around him to show him it was nothing dangerous. Well, about the time me and Louie clear the trees, Louie spots his favorite playthings in the whole world.(free range cows) Louie locks up on point, just quivering with excitement. I'm sensing what's about to happen, and clamp down hard on him, to stop him from chasing after those cows. Well, unknown to me, Jasper finally found his nerve, and went through the trees. The big dummy just plows headfirst right into Louies butt, and the rodeo is ON! Louie blew up and took off running, and all i could hear from my friends was,"STAY WITH HIM DAN!!!!" I didn't get thrown, and managed to get him shut down before he killed us both. My buds are pretty tough old cowboys. They said my ride lacked any artistic ambience, and refused to award me my buckle. I also think they were probably a bit peeved about the bite marks my butt left in that antique saddle I was riding.

Great read DanWalker. I can see the events in my minds eye as I've been there in a similar case. Now I prefer throttle and brakes over spurs and reins. ALTHOUGH I have had my share of incidents with the latter too. Made me laugh til tears appeared in my eyes. Thanks!!!!!

Edd

[lcclower]

Well, you know you can shoot off any horse. Once.

[MtGun44]

That is exactly what my outfitter told me the first time we went hunting from horseback. :bigsmyl2:

I understood instantly, having ridden since a teen and understanding how flighty horses
can be when scared. Been busted up a few times by them, too and seen people nearly
killed in horse wrecks. Powerful, useful and dangerous animals. A good horse is a joy to
work with, but not owning my own now, I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them.

Bill

[Just Duke]

Yep and that's why I buy three each of most leverguns.

[crabo]

So was there ever a diagnosis done and the problem worked out?