Just curious - why doesn't --- ???

[Ron B.]

I know this question must have been answered at least a 1000 times, but where? I haven't found it.

Why don't the reloading/ cast bullet manuals state "bullet/projectile" overall length? Isn't BOL (bullet overall length) very important to achieve a safe COL (cartridge overall length)? Even though pictures and actual bullets may appear to be identical, we all know slight changes in BOL, caused by Bullets/Projectiles that may not be correct can, and will cause pressure problems, due to seating too deep.
Any thoughts on this subject? :killingpc

Thanks,
Ron

[thx997303]

My only thought is, this is why we work loads up.

I imagine it would make them use more paper to print the same information.

All about money.

[HeavyMetal]

Labor!

Thats the short answer. If manuals included a BOl they would wind up with a ton of additional reaserch.

This takes time and that means money. Someday perhaps some enterprising indvidual will do this as a hobby.

[montana_charlie]

I know this question must have been answered at least a 1000 times, but where? I haven't found it.

Why don't the reloading/ cast bullet manuals state "bullet/projectile" overall length?
I don't have a reloading manual that is less than 30 years old, and mine are all out on loan, so I can't verify this. But, it seems to me that COL is only important when assuring a given cartridge will function in the most common action that handles it.

Within a given caliber, all similarly styled bullets of a certain weight will be about the same length. So listing their lengths wouldn't accomplish much.
Then, many (if not most) manufactured bullets come with a cannelure.
Those that have them will have you seating to that indicated depth...regardless of how long the bullet actually is.
If you want a bullet that touches the lands, that cannelure may be in the wrong place for you. But it can probably assure a COL that functions through your magazine.

Since it's rare for a smokeless load to also be a compressed load, there is enough empty space in most cases to make minor seating depth adjustments without causing an unsafe condition.
This should be especially true when considering that any safety-minded individual will start low and work up...as recommedned in every reloading manual ever printed.

CM

[MtGun44]

WAY too many designs. If you use the Lyman cast book, you get some good LOA data, but
for many boolits, there is a crimp groove to set LOA. The only value of LOA is so you know
where the base of the boolit/bullet was for the book load, so if you are putting YOUR base
somewhere else, you can estimate whether you are increasing or decreasing the pressure
compared to the book load.

I essentially ignore LOA info except to make sure that I am not seating a lot deeper than
the manual, then work up my loads for my guns. I think way to many people use the LOA
value for a different bullet/boolit without thinking through the combustion chamber size
effect.

Bill

[bhn22]

I'm assuming you're mainly concerned with rifle cartridges since handgun cartridges are largely crimped into factory located crimping grooves, or taper crimped into the bullet itself. I've noticed that the mould manufacturers (notably Lyman), are constantly tweaking their bullet designs, and some moulds even seem to be cut deeper in the blocks than others. Imagine the consequences if the mould manufacturers made dimensional drawings available to the public. They would get thousands of calls complaining about how someone just bought a mould, and why don't their bullets don't match the drawings? As we already know, casting temp, alloy, mould temp, outside temperature and many other factors can all affect cast bullet dimensions, but many people don't understand this little nugget of information. Another point to consider, casters are handloaders, to a degree. Especially the rifle guys. They'll fuss over overall length until they're satisfied with the results.

[tommygirlMT]

I personally have always thought that they should print a maximum seating depth --- much more meaningful then max overall length --- and it wouldn't take any extra printing paper to do it that way and you wouldn't have to figure out the length of all the different boolits out there --- let the loader do that part --- if they can't figure that out (simple math and calipers) they shouldn't be reloading anyway.

[bigted]

i often stress about this very question. im on the poorer side of life and when i buy the next mould i also would like to have the dimension available to me as i load for several action types and some require something different then the others. and yes i can and do read a set of calipers and surprisingly i also have and use snap gauges as well as micrometers and depth gauges and on and on...however i still would like to see these meassurements available for us who figure a ton before actually jumping in with the pocketbook. as has been pointed out here...i have not found this magic "place" yet to find these meassurements.

maybe somebody that has the interest and time to inquire and actually meassure then jot these meassurments down will open a "book" of these boolit meassurements.

good luck on your "search" and if you find it before i do then by all means post it here for ALL us who are also curious!

oh and on loads and preassures...i ALWAYS start very low and work up watching for preassure signs in all the rite places. however i have since been educated on the hottest rounds going jet speeds are always ...READ ALWAYS never great for cast and not needed for the outcome they are designed for. they expand perfect at lower speeds and accuracy never is found with them in the hottest loadings. for hunting the boolits WILL perform with stellar quality running at modest speed and therfore MODEST preassure. so i am never plagued with overpreassure ...however i ALWAYS check for signs of it anyway...just responsible reloading i learned as a kid with my lee loaders and the couple loaders that required a "hammer" to assemble reloads.....yep back in the dark ages...lol.

[noylj]

There are two things affecting COL:
1) what distance is optimum IN YOUR GUN from the bullet ogive to the lede
2) what length cartridge can the magazine accept.
I can tell you what COL for a given bullet in a given gun worked best for me, but your gun will vary from my gun.
From Ramshot manual:
SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values (ed: as shown in reloading manuals) are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must
be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load.

[BAGTIC]

Labor!

Thats the short answer. If manuals included a BOl they would wind up with a ton of additional reaserch.

This takes time and that means money. Someday perhaps some enterprising indvidual will do this as a hobby.

Perhaps for some manuals bt not for those published by the bullet manyfacturers. THe already know all the weights, dimensions, etc. for all of their bullets. If they can afford the cost of measuring ballistic coefficients, trajectories, load data, etc. it would be a cinch to publish bullet data right next to the picture of each bullet. This data does not change from cartridge to cartridge or year to year. When they do make changes they assign a new model/part number and continue on.

I suspect it is because they assume their customers are too ignorant to need/want such data.

[cbunt1]

Well...I'm glad you asked the question.

I've wondered the same thing myself, and have sat down and started a couple of articles about the subject...and decided that they always sound like some hilbilly ranting on about something nobody really cares too much about.

I have to agree that a "Maximum seating depth" measurement would be useful. I can't count the number of hours I've spent working backwards from known bullets into a seating depth measurement. Perhaps much ado about nothing, since I don't usually play around at max levels though.

I also can't help thinking that since none of the manuals publish it, and I've rarely (if ever) seen it discussed, that perhaps it boils down to this: providing the "Max Seating Depth" might actually be more dangerous than a simple "Overall Length" because it could be more easily misunderstood and misused.

But I do advocate putting similar information in the custom load workups we post or use on the web...