44 Special and 44 magnum

[Mill3rman3]

Got a friend who has a bulldog firearms 44 special. He asked me to load up some rounds for him which really i have no issues in doing being that ive made many 44 mag rounds for myself. My question is, I dont have 44 special cases but i looked in my trusty lyman and lee manuals and it appears that the 44 mag casing is just .125 longer then the 44 special. Other then that and the powder charge it appears to be the same casing. Is this true? Can i use the same heads if the same weight is listed as a cast round?:redneck:

[Ole]

A good GP plinking load for my Bulldog is 6.5gr of Unique and a 200 grain Lee RNFP bullet.

.44 special is just a little shorter than .44 Mag to prevent the magnum cases from being chambered and fired in a pistol chambered for .44 special.

[Recluse]

On those occasions that I have (reluctantly) agreed to reload for (longtime) friends, the standing deal was that they supplied me with the components--brass, primers, powder, projectiles.

I refused to do the "Oh, you just get the stuff and I'll reimburse you for it." Fast way to end a friendship.

Make your friend supply you with the .44 Special cases because there is significant difference between Special and Magnum and there is a reason the special cases are shorter than Magnum cases in both .38 and .44.

:coffee:

[Ben]

A suggestion.....if you're going to load for your friend, use 44 spec brass and use .44 spec dies.

[hickstick_10]

Yes its slightly longer, read your reloading manual carefully.

Trim your 44 mag cases to 44 special length and load to 44 special data.

you dont need a dedicated 44 special reloading die if your 44 mag die is meant for both calibers (many are). In which case the die is meant to be adjusted so the case goes in full length for 44 specials and a portion of the case does not enter the die in a 44 magnum.

Check the stamping on your reloading die.

[jmsj]

I think hickstick 10 hit on the head.
I don't shoot 44 specials but I do reload them for a young man that is going through some tough times and really doing a great job taking care of his family. In his current situation he can't afford ammo.
The only thing I would add is trimming cases from 44 magnum length to 44 special length w/ a manual case trimmer is a time consuming job. I have found using a lathe makes it a lot easier/quicker

[HangFireW8]

Yes its slightly longer, read your reloading manual carefully.

Trim your 44 mag cases to 44 special length and load to 44 special data.


This can be done, but keep in mind-

44 Magnum brass is thicker than 44 Special brass!

This means two things-
1. Maximum 44 Special loads become beyond-max, due to reduced case capacity, and
2. Very light loads may fail to seal, giving smokey necks, because 44 Mag brass doesn't expand as easily.

-HF

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Got a friend who has a bulldog firearms 44 special. He asked me to load up some rounds for him which really i have no issues in doing being that ive made many 44 mag rounds for myself. My question is, I dont have 44 special cases but i looked in my trusty lyman and lee manuals and it appears that the 44 mag casing is just .125 longer then the 44 special. Other then that and the powder charge it appears to be the same casing. Is this true? Can i use the same heads if the same weight is listed as a cast round?:redneck:

I would strongly recommend NOT reloading for a friend.
Jon

[lawdog941]

Yes its slightly longer, read your reloading manual carefully.

Trim your 44 mag cases to 44 special length and load to 44 special data.

you dont need a dedicated 44 special reloading die if your 44 mag die is meant for both calibers (many are). In which case the die is meant to be adjusted so the case goes in full length for 44 specials and a portion of the case does not enter the die in a 44 magnum.

Check the stamping on your reloading die.

+1. I would also caution on reloading for someone else unless you really want to. Too much could go wrong and jeopardize the friendship, that you don't have control over.

dogg

[TCLouis]

Show friend how to load and let them use their components and time on your equipment.

[lwknight]

Can i use the same heads if the same weight is listed as a cast round?

I generally use plain old normal cast boolits. I have never tried a head in my load.
Would that be an incendiary device?

[Bambeno]

Experimenting with my own reloads is fun. But I never load anything for someone else that is not in a loading manual, proper case, etc. Way too much liability.

Have him get the correct componets (does he not have any of his 44 special empties?).

[Mill3rman3]

He's a very good friend of mine and we have shot for quite a few years. He doesnt have any 44 special cases. Ill have him buy some and then when they are empty show him how to reload em. And i was going to use straight out lead heads i cast nothing special, hhaha i believe where i live incindiary heads are quite illegal.

[Trifocals]

Ditto on having your friend supply the components. Keep in mind the Charter Arms Bulldog is a fine little revolver but it is very light weight, thus recoil can be punishing. I would endeavor to keep the velocities in the 650-700 fps range. This is more than sufficient velocity for plinking or to put plenty of "hurt" on a bad guy in a close range scenario.

[hickstick_10]

Trim your 44 mag cases and compare weights to a factory 44 special case, that should remove all doubt.

I do remember a blurb in handloader magazine about one of the writers getting a box of factory 44 special ammo stamped 44 mag. It raises the question on how different the cases are besides length. And honestly, the 44 special is a fairly low pressured round that its hard to get in trouble with it if your not ignorant, difference in case thickness affects volume yes, but so does people screwing around with cartridge overall length, and people don't kick up as much of a fuss about that.

+1 on smokey necks, I ALWAYS get them, be it with handloads or factory 44 special fodder, the factory stuff is pretty low stepping.

In the end it IS better to use dedicated 44 special stamped cases to avoid one of those damn things making its way into a 44 mag pile to reload, I use 44 special stamped cases for 44 special loads, and 44 mags as such as well.

But others may be more organized then me.

[nicholst55]

Personally, I would invite my friend to bring his .44 Spl brass over, and I would talk him through the process of loading them ~ with him doing the actual loading. While you may never have made a mistake while loading, I know that I certainly have. It only takes one mistake to ruin a gun ~ and a friendship.

You may have known this friend for 50 years, but let one of your loads bulge a barrel or separate a topstrap and launch the top of the cylinder, and your friendship is over.

Just MHO.

[ironhead7544]

The 44 Special and the 44 Magnum use the same diameter bullets. The Special is loaded to a lot lower pressures than the Magnum so powder charges are not the same. In the Bulldog you want a light load for practice as it kicks a bit. Unique works really well. I would show him how to use the equipment and let him make his own loads.

[Bret4207]

First off, I'd reload the cases with boolits or bullets and not "heads". Shrinking heads to the .430 area takes a lot of works. Second, is this a Charter Arms 44 Bulldog, or a Bulldog Firearms 44? Charter is a modern, well made gun. "Bulldog Firearms" I've never heard of, but it brings to mind the hardware store cheapies of the 1900's. I'd make sure of exactly what the gun is and make darn sure it's safe to fire if it's not a Charter or other relatively modern gun.

[HATCH]

Keep in mind that you are dealing with a Charter Arms Bulldog, not a S&W N-frame.
8.5 grains of Unique in a 44 sp out of a N-frame is nice. The same amount out of a Bulldog means you will have pieces of a gun...
I would start on the low side and then work it up if he wants more power

[deltaenterprizes]

I see you are new here, welcome to the forum.
On this site lead slugs are "boolits" and jacketed are "j word" or bullets.
The completed assembly of brass case, powder, primer and boolit is a "cartridge".
Proper terms are important to give SAFE advise.
The head of a cartridge is where the head stamp is located with the caliber designation and manufactuer's name imprinted.

[HangFireW8]

Can i use the same heads if the same weight is listed as a cast round?

I tried to answer the brass question but I don't think this question has been answered.

Generally, it is safe to substitute cast boolits for the same weight jacketed bullet in a given listed load. This is because lead, being so much softer than copper or gilding metal, obturates easier and therefore has less starting resistance in the leade.

It is NOT safe to assume you can substitute a jacketed bullet into a listed cast boolit load, for the same reason.

Giving us an idea whether this is a Charter Arms, Charco (et al) or a Belgian breaktop pocket model from 1904 would get you more specific advice. Revolvers from before the Korean era were expected to shoot lead slugs, not jacketed bullets, and so they are best reloaded with lead slugs. It was only when Lee Jurras brought us Super Vel ammunition in the 60's did people start shooting jacketed bullets in revolvers.

-HF

[AZ-Stew]

I was just reading Handloader magazine this morning and found an article that addresses this question very well. It started with the author overhearing a discussion in a gun shop where one gent buying .45 caliber handloading components told his friend that "a 250 grain bullet is a 250 grain bullet", suggesting that they're all the same. Well, the short answer is that they aren't. The author loaded .45 Colt cartridges with a variety of bullet styles, both cast and jacketed. The ones that were more than 250 grains as purchased were filed at the nose to remove enough material to bring their weights down to an even 250 grains. The powder charges used were chosen to stay below the industry standard pressure for the .45 Colt cartridge.

In short, the jacketed bullets chronographed at between 200 and 300 fps slower than the cast lead bullets. Some were slow enough that they were at risk of sticking in the barrel. What surprised me was that the swaged lead, commercially produced bullets from Speer and Hornady clocked between the jacketed and cast bullets, even they're arguably the softest material.

So, the answer to your question is that, no, you can't arbitrarily substitute components. Find data for the components you have (handloading manual or call the manufacturer) and use that data if you want safe handloads.

As others have said, you COULD trim .44 Magnum cases to .44 Special length, but it's time consuming and the cases will have less internal capacity, meaning that top book loads for .44 Special could be unsafe when using the thicker Magnum brass. You're better off to buy the correct brass.

And, as has been mentioned, the part of the cartridge that is blown out the barrel is the bullet (or projectile, or on this board when referring to cast projectiles, they're boolits). The head is where the primer is seated.

Regards,

Stew

[Mill3rman3]

I have already taken the advice and turned down the offer to load the 44 special cartidges for him, and thank you for the terminoligy correction. That will not happen again.

[zdogk9]

Personally, I would invite my friend to bring his .44 Spl brass over, and I would talk him through the process of loading them ~ with him doing the actual loading. While you may never have made a mistake while loading, I know that I certainly have. It only takes one mistake to ruin a gun ~ and a friendship.

You may have known this friend for 50 years, but let one of your loads bulge a barrel or separate a topstrap and launch the top of the cylinder, and your friendship is over.

Just MHO.

This is how I do it. Spend a couple of hours with a friend. Make him check EVERY ONE of his re-loads at each step of the process. This teaches him reloading and makes the reloads HIS. be sure to start at the low end, then if he wants to ramp things up its his decision.

[EDK]

+1 on teaching him how...and letting him load his own.

44 Special brass available on gunbroker, etc. OR buy 100 rounds of reloadable "Cowboy ammo"...good for practice...and use that brass in the future.

Try to get full wadcutters...Penn Bullets mentioned....and start low until you get into uncontrollable/uncomfortable levels. I have the 200 and 250 grain boolits from previous group buys. A 44 or 45 wadcutter makes one h*** of a hole in things...it doesn't need to expand much either.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck: