first reloads 7.62 nagant

[swheeler]

starline line brass
lee 311-100-2r ( lubed in 313 sizer- cast @.312 100 grs)
4.0 grs Herco
OEM primer
Lee steel dies
OAL1.455"
972 fps-29 ES for 7 rds
Accuracy was 4-5 inches at 25 yds, big improvement over 32 H&R mag ammo, shot about 5" low(slow boolit down) Still have red dot,700x,AL-5,WSF to try, tune velocity to sights. The crimp on the end of the case measures .315 and slips nicely into the forcing cone, the outside of the case,where bullet is seated, measures .331(.333 throats) these Lee dies are made to apply the strange crimp on the end of the casing. Lots of fun so far!
Finally got to post this- tried several times last night and today????????????
Something is goofed. Scooter

[Buckshot]

...........I wonder what would result if you cast those boolits out of pure lead? I mean besides casting a tiny fraction smaller in OD? The reason I ask is that my S&W V in 38 S&W was a rather lackluster grouper, even after being fed .363" slugs cast of WW from a Lyman 35863 4 cv mould. I decided to try pure lead and once I did it shot so much better it was like a different pistol.

You could also use a flat nosed top punch and bump up soft lead slugs very easily in that .313" die, or maybe get a .314" die? I don't know anything about the Nagant revolters, but maybe this would help to tighten things up even more? Doesn't Hornady or someone offer swaged soft lead DEWC's in .314" size?

..............Buckshot

[NVcurmudgeon]

swheeler, Looks like you are getting encouraging results right off. I have a Nagant on order. How bulged is your .32 Magnum brass after firing? If possible I would like to avoid the whole gas seal/odd crimp thing and pretend it's a .32 Magnum.

[swheeler]

Guys; been trying to answer you, is anybody having trouble posting here? INVALID THREAD? INVALID USERNAME OR PASSWORD? What the H is going on?Is my puter trying to kick the bucket!
Scooter

[swheeler]

Bill; The 32 h&r brass swells too much (about .025 ahead of the web)
Ric: I think I will give pure PB a try- although .314 probably wouldn't fit in the cylinders- .312 + the case neck=.331- throats .333- still has to be able to release the bullet seated about .200 inside the neck- the bore slugged about .3105 at the muzzle.4.0 grs of Herco is a little on the warmish side
Scooter

[crazy mark]

If using 32-20 brass you can't really put the funny crimp on because the case is too short. I have used some of the 7.62 Nagant brass without doing the crimp and it worked OK. Mark

[bravokilo]

Maybe I missed something. Where do you get the OEM primers? I believe you mentioned in another post a price of $45 a sleeve?

BK

[Buckshot]

Bill; The 32 h&r brass swells too much (about .025 ahead of the web)
Ric: I think I will give pure PB a try- although .314 probably wouldn't fit in the cylinders- .312 + the case neck=.331- throats .333- still has to be able to release the bullet seated about .200 inside the neck- the bore slugged about .3105 at the muzzle.4.0 grs of Herco is a little on the warmish side
Scooter

No computer problems here.

So okay, I wasn't aware of the critical dimensions and my closely held, super top secret number one accuracy enhancing trick is to use a fatter boolit :-)! In your pistol's case I guess you can't use it or need it. You should try the pure lead, or at least MUCH softer lead boolits at least so you can say you did!

Maybe it will benefit and maybe not. The 38 S&W operating at milder pressures then the 38 Special did everything except sit up and give buttermilk when I switched to pure lead, and hollowbased pure lead did even better. Velocities to 760 fps and barrel as clean and slick as a whistle. Can you tell I'm happy[smilie=p:

...............Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

I am now the proud possessor of a Nagant revolver, condition exceeding excellent, and made in 1916. These little critters field-strip nicely without tools, a characteristic most double action revolvers lack. Kind of ingenious, really--like the upgrade of the Browning system seen in the Tokarev pistol with its hammer/sear detachable sub-assembly arrangement. I think Bill Ruger might have learned a few things from the Russians--something like, "If you can't build it beautiful, build it strong and build it practical." After stealing the concept and improving upon it.

Review of the Starline website showed they did some R&D on the Nagant cases, and found that the standard 1.52" cases were rendered unusable for reloading after few firings, and were difficult to extract after firing. Per Starline, the longer cases formed a blowout flare of some kind. Starline cut the case length back to 1.45"-1.46", and they report the issues disappeared.

Starline's loading regimen is kind of interesting. With new brass, they recommend decap--recap--pour powder--seat bullet--THEN run the assembly through the F/L sizer die generously lubed, perhaps in two steps to avoid tearing off case rims. They recommend the same regimen with fired brass, claiming the last step is easier this time through. Starline doesn't state whose dies they used. What sort of procedure did you use, SWheeler?

I do appreciate the info that Lee dies can form the crimp on Starline cases. The Soviet-era cartridges that came with the revolver look like a lead wadcutter seated about .200" deep inside the case, with a Taper Crimp From Hell applied just above the bullet's front end. Clearly, the case's mouth is designed to form what in most cases is the cylinder throat--the case mouth functions as a throat bushing of sorts. It also appears to help form the seal where the rebated cylinder face meets the barrel's forcing cone. The Sviet ammo extends well past the rebated cylinder face, and it sounds like the Starline brass protrudes a bit forward as well.

A lot of the above is educated guesswork. Someone with hands-on experience should feel free to correct this as needed. The Nagant already appears to have been designed by committee--its reloading should follow suit, don't you think?

[StarMetal]

Deputy Al

Where did you purchase your Nagant revolver from? I see Military Gun Supply has them in great condition for $79. Christ sake, do I have to buy one now?

Joe

[NVcurmudgeon]

Scooter and Allen, Thanks for the Nagant information, you are saving me a lot of expensive mistakes. I was browsing Midway's catalog for dies, etc. yesterday. RCBS $133.54, (gasp) Lee not listed but I know they make them because a friend ordered 7.62 x 25 Tokarev and got Nagant in error.

Joe, My perusal of Shotgun News found two Nagant merchants @ $89.95, so I ordered from Interordnance. I think you have found rock bottom, grab it.

[grumble]

Y'all might want to check Century Arms for the Nagant pissolas. $79 there, too, I think. They also have the "Sporter" Nagants for about $150 IIRC. The Sporter was the variation used by the Ruskies in international competitions. FWIW though, I don't think they ever won anything. <GGG> Century used to carry the 32ACP cylinders, but you'll have to check with them to see if they still have them.

I bought several of these guns a few years ago (at $50 each) and gave them to my kids, along with starter reloading kits in a feeble attempt to get them interested in reloading. Alas, my ploy didn't work. After they'd used the powder and primers I gave them, all interest was gone. Sigh. What's become of kids these days?

My first reloading for the Nagant was with Bertram brass. Every single case fired, split. After a few of these, I looked real closely at the unfired cases, and sure enuff, you could see a joint on each case showing that the cases were rolled, not extruded. I sent several cases back to Midway with a note of protest, and they pulled that lot of Bertram brass. I don't know if the current Bertram brass is any good or not.

As a sidenote, a lot of the Midway reps got in on a group buy of the Nagants back about the time I bought mine. So, if you call Midway and ask questions, you very well might be able to talk to someone else who reloads and shoots these old Czar-killers.

[LowPE]

It is my understanding that Lee made a special run of dies for Midway. I was lucky enough to grab my dies a couple of years ago from midway.

I find that using my 2nd finger to pulllll that trigger in double action really helps with fast firing. Of course then you have to reload which is a pita. I have been sorely tempted to use the gun in a local idpa match, when turnout is low, and then scale the scores to the price of the handgun used...

[swheeler]

Al: lube the brass good for the first trip thru the sizer, they come with little or no taper, second time around is a snap! The seater die has to be opened up a few .000 to take the larger dia boolits(made for .308 bullets), I inverted the seater stem, polished the end down just enough so it would slip inside a FL sized case neck- that way I can seat the bullets about .2 inside the neck. I just used conventional loading tech, FL sized,primed,exp,charged,seated and crimped. Good luck!
Bravo2.2- OEM primers are available to lic commercial loaders- not for resale.
Bill: looks like you will be setting up a na-gaw match soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
C Mark-yes mine will cycle an uncrimped case also.
Joe: you know you need one or two, or three!
BS: If I keep getting rained out I will try MANY different alloys and pure PB.
Scooter

[swheeler]

oops; the dies are Lee steel, 19.00 from Midway, didn't say special run or limited production.

[crazy mark]

I was lucky and picked up a 32 ACP cylinder that works fine in both my Nagants and didn't need any work. There was a lot of problems with some guns and the 32 ACP cylinders. If it didn't work so good I might have had it reamed for 32 long/mag. Mark

[Buckshot]

.............Grumble you might have gotten a bit more enthusiasm from the chirruns had you not foisted off such a headache as the Nagant on them. You know, kinda like in school where they start you off with addition and subraction before dropping algebra on your head :-)!

Say a model 10 or 13 S&W in 38 Special?

...............Buckshot

[LowPE]

Just double checked, and at Lee's website --they don't list the Nagant revolver in the die section, and in the faq section they mention the special run for midway.

[StarMetal]

LowPE

Midway lists the Nagant dies for $19 like swheeler said and they are standard item, Midway will state if it is a special order item or such.

Joe

[LowPE]

From Lee's website (link below):

"Nagent dies

We made a limited production run of die sets for the 7.62 Nagant for Midway USA (800)-243-3220 or www.midwayusa.com. Documentation included with the dies came from them. We have no information or load data for this caliber."

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi

Now this very well could be dated information, as I see that Graf's sells the Lee steel dies too. My apologies, my intention was to inform not mislead.