newbie questions on casting and accuracy?

[hillbill]

hey guys im new here and to casting my own bullets for my new 45 blackhawk.i have a lee tumble lube alum mold.i have only cast maybe a couple hundred bullets from it. i am learning how mold and lead temps effect the finished bullets. my main question is that i have cast some fairly decent bullets and loaded them for my blackhawk.they are far from the perfect bullets ive seen here that yu guys make.some are a little wrinkly with a few pits and maybe a slight seam visible.in reading tonight i see that i need to clean my molds with dawn and boiling water, but then i read other posts saying a film of kroil in the mold helps. thats a little confuseing. anyway, with my less than perfect bullets i seem to get acceptable accuracy in my gun, as in if i really concentrate i can get 2 in or so groups at 25 yrds off the bags.to be honest thats prob as good as ive ever done with any pistol.especially considering a trip to the eye doc is prob in order.and is as good as i need for deer hunting at pistol ranges.if the quality of my casting improves, will the accuracy improve?does it take a perfect bullet to achieve max accuracy?im not going to stop trying for that perfect cast bullet but am curious about this?any comments or wisdom will be appreciated!

[missionary5155]

Good morning and WELCOME to ya !
Nothing wrong with 2" at 25 yards...
There are all sorts of little items to consider...
Heat.. wrinkles can be caused by a low mold temp (cast faster) or low pot temp (turn up the heat). Me I like HOT metal. Hot mold and hot metal = well filled out boolits. Pure lead wioth a bit of tin needs less temp.. WW needs more heat. But I tend to the hot side when I cast.
A clean mold is the best. Thinner will remove all lube but do not use that stuff near a flame or a hot pot. Dawn will scrub out the residue also. If your mold has no burrs and is round the boolits should plop out.
If you were to cast 100 PERFECT boolits.. I do not know if your accuracy could improve. Alot depends on that revolver, consistent loading and the shooter. But if your boolits are the same you have eliminated a big part of the equation.
Consistency is the key.

[Bret4207]

Maximum accuracy comes from as near perfect boolits as you can cast, properly fitted to the specific gun (both static and dynamic fit), using the load your gun likes best for that boolit. The rest is up to the shooter. Another offshoot of this quest is finding a design the gun in question "likes". How much of that particular relationship is dependent on fit I still haven't figured out.

Best advice? Keep casting, strive to produce the best boolits you can. It takes time to learn a particular moulds quirks. When you figure things out WRITE THEM DOWN!!! Observe and change only one element at a time, IOW- if you have a poor load, don't change powder charge and seating depth at the same time. Work on fit, static fit comes from sizing diameter, seating, crimp. Dynamic fit comes from the boolits actions after you light the powder...the pressure curve, forcing cone, etc.

Keep at it, you'll make great strides right off the bat and then hit a plateau and then slowly climb some more. It's an art, not a science.

[x101airborne]

I shoot the heck outta them wrinkled ones. Group right on top of the pretty ones. For me, the wrinkles are about pride. The better i cast, the fewer i have. When i drop 1000 wrinkle free, perfectly formed, weight consistent boolits in around three hours, I think I will have it down pat.

[frkelly74]

Get a micrometer.

[44man]

Keep at it! You will learn that how and what you load is more important then how the boolit looks as long as wrinkles and voids are just small.
Even when you get perfect boolits you still have the other stuff to do to make them shoot.

[Calamity Jake]

I When i drop 1000 wrinkle free, perfectly formed, weight consistent boolits in around three hours, I think I will have it down pat.

Won't happen!!! :mrgreen: Been casting boolits for over 30 years, there's always a few rejects. :(

But then I inspect my boolits pretty close.

[44man]

Won't happen!!! :mrgreen: Been casting boolits for over 30 years, there's always a few rejects. :(

But then I inspect my boolits pretty close.
Well, I don't cast 1000 at any one time, I would go nuts! :holysheep
But I dump a 20# pot time and again with nothing but perfect boolits. Even dumping the sprues back has not changed that for me.
But yes, now and then I find one but it will be my fault for doing something else while casting.
I am still trying to figure out how to walk the dogs or make furniture while casting! [smilie=l:Darn, what a boring job. I start to fidget after 20 in the bucket! :bigsmyl2:
I only cast because it is cheaper and it works. The same with loading ammo, just how boring can it be to prepare 100 cases, etc?

[Ugluk]

Won't happen!!! :mrgreen: Been casting boolits for over 30 years, there's always a few rejects. :(

But then I inspect my boolits pretty close.

That's the problem right there.. I've been casting for only two years or so, but even if the casting skills have improved vastly, so has the standards when it comes to what gets sent back in the pot..

[mdi]

I think 44man is right. Plus practice is the key to both shootin' and castin'. I got a good book on casting a few years ago, 'cause I don't know any casters, "Cast Bullets for Beginners and Expert" by Brennan. In his book he says "The way to learn to cast bullets, is to cast bullets".
So, I just kept casting; sometines half would go back in the pot and sometimes I'd get 80%, but I kept casting till I got good amount of "keepers". BTW, I shot most anyway...

[Tazman1602]

Hey Hillbill and welcome to the best bullet casting forum on the 'net.

If you're getting wrinkles your mold is either dirty (sure, wash it off with dishwashing detergent and hot water with a toothbrush -- "Dawn" is NOT magic...) or.............and this was a big one for me personally, get a $10 hotplate from Walgreens or Wally World or wherever and pre-heat your mold on it. THAT makes all the difference in my casting especially if you're getting "wrinkly bullets".

You'll get 20 different opinions on this subject but as Brett says, the only way to learn casting is to cast and the great thing? If you run out of lead or have bad bullets just put 'em back in the pot and start over.

I cast for 25 years and never had a "run" of those "perfect" bullets you are talking about until I found this forum..............but then, I've cast more bullets in the last YEAR than I did in the previous 15 years.

KEEP NOTES. Lot's of them and make ONE change at a time. Sooner or later you'll be casting exactly what you want/need/desire.

Art

PS -- hold on to your wallet hanging around here...........<GRIN>
:bigsmyl2:

[mpmarty]

There "aint" no perfect boolit. Most of what I cast I shoot. Wrinkles, frosty, sprue pullouts and all. Kind of like a woman you take em as you find em.

[hillbill]

thanks for all the encouragement. i think ill fire up the melt pot this eve and see what happens.

[Von Gruff]

That's the problem right there.. I've been casting for only two years or so, but even if the casting skills have improved vastly, so has the standards when it comes to what gets sent back in the pot..

That is the crux of this passion of ours. The more we learn and cast, the higher our standards become, and the higher our standards, the more we learn.

This is one damm good merry-go-round we are on, peopled by the finest there is.

Von Gruff.

[a.squibload]

...get a $10 hotplate from Walgreens or Wally World or wherever and pre-heat your mold on it. THAT makes all the difference in my casting especially if you're getting "wrinkly bullets".


You struck a nerve.
I used to drop a pair of boolits, see a wrinkle, put the mold down,
pick up the boolits one at a time (with pliers), examine each for a minute, curse a bit,
throw 'em back in the pot, scratch my head, and pour two more.
In the winter with a fan blowing.

This site has me better prepared. Won't be long now I swear...

[Bret4207]

Oh yeah, been there, done that. I used to spend more time staring at fresh cast boolits than casting. Once I got the idea of mould heat in my head things turned around. Every second the mould is not holding hot lead it's cooling off.

[Tazman1602]

a.squib --

I'm there with you but my big trick now? Dropping and absolutely, positively PERFECT bullet, thinking to myself "Dang that one is really niiii....................."

this is the part where my wife runs downstairs screaming "DID YOU JUST PICK UP A BLASTED RED HOT BULLET WITH YOUR FINGERS AGAIN????"

I'll learn, I'm not THAT dumb..................<GRIN>


You struck a nerve.
I used to drop a pair of boolits, see a wrinkle, put the mold down,
pick up the boolits one at a time (with pliers), examine each for a minute, curse a bit,
throw 'em back in the pot, scratch my head, and pour two more.
In the winter with a fan blowing.

This site has me better prepared. Won't be long now I swear...

[a.squibload]

Yep, my wife laughed as I read that. At least I USUALLY have gloves on...

[bigted]

my 458 boolits have a very different need for each weight. my 400gr lyman mould will cast as fast as i can let the sprue to harden so i dont get smears on top. my 500rn lyman boolits will heat up the mould so hot very quickly that i wind up waiting with them held open for a few seconds to allow them to cool enough so that they arnt looking like they came out of the fog.

wrinkles only happen to me when i have cool melt or cool moulds. even oily mould will "cook off" the oily wrinkle making in a few casts or so. just dont stop casting...continue to cast till they get frosty then slow down a bit till the shiney comes back. full fillout and good looks are what im looking for...now if i can only get them to weigh the same. i get differences of up to 3 and 4 gr between some boolits as i weigh them...maybe ill stop weighing them and keep on smiling.

[44man]

my 458 boolits have a very different need for each weight. my 400gr lyman mould will cast as fast as i can let the sprue to harden so i dont get smears on top. my 500rn lyman boolits will heat up the mould so hot very quickly that i wind up waiting with them held open for a few seconds to allow them to cool enough so that they arnt looking like they came out of the fog.

wrinkles only happen to me when i have cool melt or cool moulds. even oily mould will "cook off" the oily wrinkle making in a few casts or so. just dont stop casting...continue to cast till they get frosty then slow down a bit till the shiney comes back. full fillout and good looks are what im looking for...now if i can only get them to weigh the same. i get differences of up to 3 and 4 gr between some boolits as i weigh them...maybe ill stop weighing them and keep on smiling.
This might be the best information yet. As experience increases, time to cut and cast another becomes automatic without thinking. Just a glance at a boolit will register and things will smooth out.
I guess us old timers forget how frantic a new caster can get when it is a smooth even flow for us.
The best advice I can give is to relax and learn from every boolit, it will become natural.
It is still BORING! :cbpour:

[mdi]

Just a hint; when you drop that "perfect" boolit, don't get excited and pick it up! Wait 'till it cools. Been there, done that...:mrgreen:

[mpmarty]

I never look at what falls out of the mold. I just keep on keepin on until the pot is down to less than half and then drop in a few ingots and dump the boolits into a container to clear space on my folded towel.

[AZ-Stew]

Hillbill,

The one part of the boolit that should be as near perfect as possible is the edge where the shank and base meet. This is important for handgum boolits and absolutely imperative for rifle boolits if you expect accuracy. A number of tests have been run where jacketed bullets were intentionally deformed by filing chunks out of them in various locations. The bullets were then loaded and fired from a rest to check accuracy. By far, the worst accuracy was when the base corners of the bullets were filed so as to leave a notch or chamfer on one side. Defects in the nose sections of the bullets had very little effect on accuracy.

Strive for well filled-out boolit bases. Along with having your boolits properly fit your gun, they are the key to accuracy. Nose wrinkles don't matter. I would, however, reject boolits with wrinkles that run through the driving bands. They will let hot, high-pressure gasses blow by the boolit and cause leading. If you're shooting 2 inch groups with your Blackhawk, your boolits must fit pretty well. In addition, your Blackhawk must be made better than mine. It sounds like your cylinder throats and barrel are properly sized for each other. I don't think mine are.

Regards,

Stew