Boolits dropping 20gr too heavy!

[JDUBS]

Hello I just got into casting and I could use your advice. Ive seen some posts on weight variation but nothing I can find about a variation this large. I have a lee mold that is meant for 44 mag 200gr boolits. I cast about 100 and weighed half of them and they are all dropping between 218 and 220 grains. I am using a bottom poor lee pot with WW ingots I purchased off Fleabay. I am also water quenching them. I have a thermometer and have been pooring around 800 degrees. Since we are talking about a 20 grain variation, I would assume I should skip the load data for 200 grain and look for 215-220 gr load data? All I can find is load data for 215 grain boolits. Your advice is much appreciated. I'll keep looking for answers on here and I apologize if this has been covered, I just cant find anything about a variation of this size.



P.S THIS IS FUN!!!!!![smilie=w:

Jess

[old turtle]

I think that the data for the 215 grain boolits would be fine as long as they are similar in shape.I suspect that your ingots might have more lead than ww. Also do you know what the manufacturer of the mold uses to determine the weight. In any event try to get some ww's locally and cast the boolit out of that and see what weight you get. Also check that the mold is not oversize. If the material you have is too soft you can add linotype,tin or lead free plumbers solder

[fryboy]

while most mold makers specify a given weight for a given alloy i have found that even with that given alloy our results wont always be the same , sometimes we get lucky tho , a good case in point ? i bought a lyman mold ( # 452-374 DVHP ) it is listed to drop castings at 180 grains , with #2 alloy ( per lyman's spec's ) it drops about 198-199 grains , with a softer alloy to help the hollow point's performance it drops an average of 202 grains , you're correct in using data closest to the actual weight , please keep in mind that it is usually safe to use data for a heavier projectile the reverse is not true but as always ye olde caveat applies - start small and work safely up

[JDUBS]

Thanks OT! I looked into Lee and their weights are based off a 1 part tin, 10 part lead mix. Now I just have to find a source of pure tin. Is that the solder you had mentioned?

[Mavrick]

I've every reason to believe that old turtle got it 100% right. Fact is....I've got 1/2 a hunch that the "alloy" you got may be almost pure, with the large variation that you got from the expected. If the manufacturer uses a 1:10 then it may not be THAT good, but close.
Water quenching may not do a lot of good, if the percentage of antimony too low. Adding WWs will help, but you may have to add antimony AND tin. You can get either pure or alloy from RotoMetal(a forum sponsor) and they ship rapidly. I just got a shipment yesterday!!!
Solder is a lead-tin alloy...You'll need to find out the percentage to figure how much of which you'll need.
You don't need to know the the exact numbers...you can put into your notes, ie, "15#WW and 2# of plumber's solder" or some such.
How fast do you intend to send these 200s? What load are you going to use?
Have fun,
Gene

[44man]

The small amount of weight increase with cast does not seem to have the same affect as with jacketed. Might be because or less resistance in the barrel. I pay almost no attention to what a mold casts at.
My Lyman .45 boolit is 347 gr when it supposed to be 325 gr. I use the same load.

[noylj]

1) too much lead
2) boolit diameter is probably on the small side
3) Weight isn't that significant, but in your case you will want to use 215-220 gn cast data. I compile my lead data in 10gn increments and jacketed data in 5gn increments.
4) I cast a 115gn L-SWC. One time I weighed 1000 of them. Low weight was 115.3gn and heaviest was 119.3gn. I loaded the 10 lowest weight, the 10 heaviest weight, and 10 at 116.1gn (9.6% weighed 116.1gn, which was the largest number of bullets in any weight bracket).
The 10 lightest bullets gave me groups of 3.19" and 2.88". The rounds at 116.1gn gave me groups of 4.44" and 4.125". The heaviest gave me groups of 3.38" and 4.188". A mixed weight set (where each 5 rounds consisted of 2 of the heaviest, 2 of the lightest, and 2 from 117.5gn—the mid weight of all the bullets) gave me groups of 2.81" and 2.375". All were shot at 25 yards. Thus PROVING that one should make up sets of loads with the largest weight variations possible, and that the lightest bullets are at least as good as all the rest...right?

[lwknight]

JDUBS, don't get the idea that a 10:1 ratio is the way to go just because Lee rates their mold weights that way. You would be just wasting a lot of money for nothing.
I have gotten superb expansion with nearly total weight retention with 40:1 @1500 fps.
Rifles can make use of 20:1 plenty well but I just think 10:1 is a waste of tin.

[Tazman1602]

Welcome Jdubs!

Hey just get some wheel weights and start casting -- *which* Lee mold is it, what calibre, and how fast are you going to push it?

Art

[44man]

Jdubs, just work loads for accuracy. All you are doing is fine. You can start with a starting load for the 200 gr or 215 gr boolit and work up. That will be within the range of a heavier boolit and I don't foresee any problems with cast.
Most cast boolits can use more powder then jacketed without increasing pressure.
Many look right off for the highest velocity listed in manuals and jump right to that load. That is just the wrong thing to do with ANY gun. I never seen a deer argue about a few hundred foot per second.
You can also go to the starting load for a 225 gr if you are worried a little. The whole secret to revolver accuracy is to work the loads until the boolit shoots good. Some times the load will be over max for a jacketed when it shoots best, but not that often.
An example is my 330 gr boolit for the .44, it uses 21 gr of 296 while the 300 gr XTP uses 20.5 gr. 300 to 320 gr boolits use 21.5 gr of 296 and the RD 265 uses 22 gr.
Now all have been worked to a higher charge but accuracy starts to drop off. There is no sense at all going past accuracy.
Cast is forgiving and to worry about 20 gr more would not be my concern in the .44.
If you insist on fast powders, you will have other issues other then powder charges.

[1Shirt]

Have a couple of 8mm Lee molds that cast well over stated weights by 15-20 grains. Just load according to the higher weight chart recommendation, but start with bottom end loads for weight and work up.
1Shirt!:coffee: