Most accurate cast boolit designs for the '06

[Marlin Junky]

I'm just getting started with the 30-'06 and have a few designs I like for the 30-30 but the 30-'06 is a very different species in terms of chamber dimensions. I'm currently working with RCBS 30-165-SIL but am wondering what the best (most accurate) currently available designs through the usual sources are. I think I need a boolit that casts .302" on the nose and .311" on the bands.

Thanks,
MJ

[madsenshooter]

Does your silly-wet fit? It's a pretty good bullet itself and they make a heavier one. That .302 nose won't be easy to come by, I have a NOE 311284 that has a nose that large. Watch the group buys though, we've got some folks making molds that actually cast bullets that fit, no fudging needed.

[32ideal]

MJ what rifle are you wanting loads for?
32ideal

[chuebner]

My 03-A3 REALLY likes the Lyman 311299 and 311284 with 19gr. SR4759. What king of rifle are you using?

charlie

[Shiloh]

My 03-A3 REALLY likes the Lyman 311299 and 311284 with 19gr. SR4759. What king of rifle are you using?

charlie

The nose on both of those molds I tried are to small. .299 tops on the nose.

I would really like a mold with a .302 nose and .311 on the bands.

Shiloh

[chboats]

Asking what is the most accurate boolit delign is like asking for a chicken soup recipe. Ask ten people and you will get ten different answers. I happen to like a Hoch 310-185 nose pore at 185 gr. 301 nose and 310 body. It works in MOST of my 30 calibers but not all. My 03A3 will not shot anything that small. It needs a 304 nose and 313 body. The RCBS 30-165 and 200 are both good boolits if they fit your gun.

Carl

[Marlin Junky]

It's a Pre-64 M70 made about mid '52.

The RCBS 30-165-SIL has a .301"-.302" nose and I've got some sized to about .310" and ready to shoot in the morning. The load is 26 grains of 4759 and the alloy is heat treated 50/50 (BHN 29-30). Lube is a mixture of BAC and LBT Soft.

MJ

[curator]

Most accurate design in my commercial and mil-surp .30-06s is the LBT 311-180LFN.

[Dollar Bill]

I got a Lyman 311299 for my '03, but the nose is .299, so now I've got a 314299 and it casts .302 on the nose and .313 on the bands. Small for a 303 Brit but works fine in the '03. My old 311284 casts .300 on the nose and .310 on the bands. Shoots good in one '03 and in my 30-30. For the 03 with the worn throat, I bump the nose in the sizer die .001 and it does good. The Saeco 315 in a good choice. Originally designed as a 30-30 bullet, it's a tapered design that shoots like a house afire in my '03.

[32ideal]

MJ my loads are all with my stock WWII 1903 or 1903A3 Remington Springfield Sporter 30/06 rifles, both have excellent bores, I pass these loads along as not many folks shoot the Lyman 311644 bullet (see photo) my 03's prefer.

In my stock 03 Springfield refurbed for WWII, it prefers the 190gr Lyman 311644 bullet, this is the older style with the lube grooves on the nose. Cast from 50/50 WW and linotype they weigh 188grs including GC, are 1.130" long and are sized to .311", body lubed with 50/50 BW Alox, .301" nose dipped in straight Lee Liq. Alox!

Load for Sporter is bullet seated to 3.310" OAL using Win Standard LR primers and 19.2grs of H4227, usually 2" groups at 100yds using 3x9 set at 9 power.

For the Stock 03 it is OAL of 3.325" Std Win LR primers and 22.5grs of 4198, this rifle shoots nice round 2-3" groups at 100yds with the Mil sights which I can hardly see any more, have a B-Square scope mount I will get on this winter and try again next Spring and see what rifle will really do. Both loads give about 1600 fps velocity

Good luck your rifle, the 06 fun to reload for and shoot with cast,
32ideal






It's a Pre-64 M70 made about mid '52.

The RCBS 30-165-SIL has a .301"-.302" nose and I've got some sized to about .310" and ready to shoot in the morning. The load is 26 grains of 4759 and the alloy is heat treated 50/50 (BHN 29-30). Lube is a mixture of BAC and LBT Soft.

MJ

[sundog]

MJ, the Ly 314299 is not too big for 03/03A barrels. At .303/.314 it can be sized down easily to .311 or .312 which does a good job of filling the throat on most examples I've seen using fire formed, neck sized brass. Another good one is SAECO #301. Mine drops at .301/.311 and works fine sized at .311. My RCBS 30-180-SP has been my 'go-to' boolit for quite a while now for military bolt matches, and it is a proven winner and consistent performer. However, you will be hard pressed to get a .302 nose on that one even if it is beagled.

[Bert2368]

If you haven't already seen this, take a look.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13425

I've had good results with the Lyman 311291 over 16 gr of 2400. I have also used the RCBS 308-200 SIL over 41 gr IMR 4831 to good effect, the RCBS casts in the diameter ranges you specified.

[405]

I think with any bore rider design the nose MUST ride the bore- maybe even slightly engrave. If it doesn't it kinda defeats the design purpose and can hurt accuracy. So your concerns about nose diameter are very valid. I'll give another vote to at least consider the 314299. It does really well in my 03 and 03A3. For cast bullets that aren't of bore riding design it's a matter of finding one that doesn't leave a bunch of base and shank hanging into the case body when seated.

[RU shooter]

There are lots of factors that determine an accurate bullet in a certain rifle,As others have said what works in one may not in yours. But what works for me are the Lee 312-155 and 185 also the lyman 311467 With the Lee 155 currently shooting the best for me.

[Marlin Junky]

My first 3-shot group with RCBS 30-165-SIL and 26 grains of 4759 was real good (1MOA) but then I moved the cross hairs to another target and shot a near 2", 7-shot group at 75 yards which is not even iron sight acceptable. The 7-shot group strung both V and H and I hope I'm not dealing with a bedding issue. I'm going to tweak this load a bit by using a little softer alloy (27 BHN) and a non-annealed gas check next week... perhaps I'll lower the charge to 25 grains. The average velocity for 10 rounds was 2087 fps with a Std.Dev. of 12.4.

OR

I may just repeat my Green Dot load (which was more consistent) with the exception of substituting a non-annealed gas check for my usual annealed gas check.

I've got some Lee c309160's that are waiting in the cue (hardening) for the week after next and I'm prepping my 311284 for a casting session this weekend.

SAECO 315 and Lyman 314299 are on my Christmas list. I have the LBT 180 LFN but it's really not compatible with the short throat of my M70. I also like the looks of RCBS 30-180-SP but if it doesn't cast at the right diameters, it's wasted effort to try it out.

Thanks,
MJ

P.S. Actually, I've also got a 311041 that's barely been used and it may fit my M70 just fine. Has anyone had good experiences with 311041 in the '06?

[405]

"P.S. Actually, I've also got a 311041 that's barely been used and it may fit my M70 just fine. Has anyone had good experiences with 311041 in the '06?"

As a matter of fact- yes. I haven't done any extensive testing with that bullet in the 06 but it is my go-to bullet for the 30-30 lever guns. I have shot the 311041 with reduced loads in an 06 and the results were very good. But, the 314299 has been so good haven't had the need to wring out the 311041 in the 06.

Too many calibers and variations.... not enough time. :(

[Marlin Junky]

I haven't done any extensive testing with that bullet in the 06 but it is my go-to bullet for the 30-30 lever guns.

Based on my experience, the only common ground the 30WCF and the '06 share is the nominal .308" groove diameter; and, sometimes they don't even have that entirely in common... especially when old Marlins come into play.


I have shot the 311041 with reduced loads in an 06 and the results were very good.

How 'bout some details?

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

If you haven't already seen this, take a look.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13425

I've had good results with the Lyman 311291 over 16 gr of 2400. I have also used the RCBS 308-200 SIL over 41 gr IMR 4831 to good effect, the RCBS casts in the diameter ranges you specified.

Thank you,

MJ

[405]

"How 'bout some details?"

Well, since your rifle/chamber/bore is different from mine the details may or may not be of any use. But, here it is: 30-06 03 Sprng., .309" groove, 311041, BHN 15, sized to .310"., modified Felix lube w/BAC, Lapua brass, WWLR primer, 20 gr. 5744 w/low density dacron filler, OAL 3.072, Ave MV 1623, Ave SD 10, .75-.88" circular cluster groups @ 50 yds., original rifle, original sights.

[Char-Gar]

The world is full of good bullet designs for the 30-06. One might be a little better than another due to barrel specs or maybe not.

My all time picks are:

Barlow designs: 311291, 311284

Loverin designs: 311466, 311467

The RCBS 165 SIL is as good as any of them.

Don't panic is you shoot one great group and the next group is just so so. Such are the mysteries of cast bullet shooting. The only way to beat that is to scale and inspect each bullet and show no mercy.

[Marlin Junky]

The world is full of good bullet designs for the 30-06. One might be a little better than another due to barrel specs or maybe not.

My all time picks are:

Barlow designs: 311291, 311284

Loverin designs: 311466, 311467

The RCBS 165 SIL is as good as any of them.

Don't panic is you shoot one great group and the next group is just so so. Such are the mysteries of cast bullet shooting. The only way to beat that is to scale and inspect each bullet and show no mercy.

Like a dummy, I unloaded a 311467 because I thought at the time I'd never use it in my Marlins. Now I find myself more interested in vintage bolt guns and if Lyman would offer 466, 467 and 407 again, I'd buy all three.

I've never owned a 311291 and if current samples would drop .302" on the nose in WW metal, I'd order one but I don't think that's going to happen. My 311284 is a recently made mold ('04 I believe) and we'll see what's up with that this weekend. I suppose a bit of aluminum tape on one block face near the nose would coax another .001" out of the nose diameter and probably even help venting. One of the reasons I haven't used this mold yet is due to the pathetic vent lines Lyman cut in the block faces.

Do you guys think an oval shaped (.001" or so out-of-round) nose will align the boolit properly? I suppose it's worth a try.

MJ

[PacMan]

I have not read all the replys here so i hope that i am not duplicating anyones reply.
The Saeco #305 mold listed as 31 caliber that i had with WW will cast at .312 or slightly more at the bands and a .302 nose and mine weighed 179gr naked. The bullet would not work in my SS 30-30 so i let it go.
I no longer have a 30 caliber rifle but do own a well known brand mold that cast a 180 gr bullet that is exactly .311 at the bands with WW.It is not a nose rider but has a heavy front driving band and in my eye is a better design than a nose rider. If instrested in more info PM me and i will reply.
Hope this helps
Dwight
Hope this helps

[rintinglen]

My own 03 is a sporterized 60's looking gun. The best bullet for it has been the 311-644. 15 grains of unique and it will shoot as well as any j-ball I've tried. I have a 4 cavity 311-041, so I have shot a bunch of them. they aren't quite as accurate as the 311-644, but for a funsy plinking load, I have used both 15 grains of unique and 22 grains of 2400 with good, not great results. Like a buffoon, I had a 311-291 single cavity that cast large and shot well, but I traded it off when I bought a new 2 cavity--which casts about 2 thousandths smaller from nose to tail. I tried a plain base 311-244, as well as a 311-467, but neither did very well. The odd thing is that the 467 shoots very well from my old 1895 30-40 winchester, which is kind of finicky.
The problem with the 30-06 is there are so darned many choices that it is darned near impossible to try them all.

[9.3X62AL]

One boolit that has done good work in "wide-bodied" 30-06 barrels for me is the Lee C312-185. Its nose (my mould) are .302" and drive bands cast at .312", which clean up nicely to for the 2 generic Model 70s in '06 I've messed with to date--both of which had .311" throats. Land diameters were ~.3015" in a pre-64, and .302" on a 670. Just about any load running 1500-2000 FPS ran at least decently--which is the ONLY reason that 670 still takes up safe space. Nephew Joshua has the pre-64 now, and he's a Philistine--only j-words for him. Where have I failed? :)

Two Rem 700-based 30-06s were closer to "book" dimensions internally. These are both long-departed, and both had bores at or under .301" and throats at .309". Both rifles ran the Lyman #311291 very well. Sized at .310", and its nose was .300".

Noses gotta fit the land tops with bore-riders, and drive bands gotta fit or be a mite larger than throat diameters. My newest 30-06 (in queue for R&D) has VERY close dimensions--.300" lands, .308" grooves, and throat is ~.3085". My plan is to start with #311291 sized to .309", run it about 1600 FPS with a couple different powders, and see where the holes line up at 50 and 100 yards.

[Marlin Junky]

Nephew Joshua has the pre-64 now, and he's a Philistine--only j-words for him. Where have I failed? :)

My prediction is, you'll end up in possess of that M70 again after your nephew becomes bored with it; however, it'll probably need a new barrel. :wink:

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

One boolit that has done good work in "wide-bodied" 30-06 barrels for me is the Lee C312-185. Its nose (my mould) are .302" and drive bands cast at .312"

I would buy a C312-185 in a NY minute if I knew it would cast in those dimensions. Unfortunately, they are designed to cast a couple thou larger on the bands and with my luck, Midway (whomever) would ship me a Lee mold that is within spec. I really need something I can size between .310" and .311" without distortion.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

Does anyone have a nice big photo of C312-155-2R and/or C312-185-1R they can post?

Thank you,
MJ

[heathydee]

I am having really good results so far with the Lee 170 gn FP in the 30-06 falling block shown in my avatar at speeds of up to 1900fps . Five shot groups hovering around MOA . Charge weights of around 20 grains of 2400 . I have not finsihed experimenting yet and am gradually increasing the powder load until I max out with either pressure or velocity.

[GP100man]

I started out with the 314299 mold I bought for my mosins & had instant results with it GCed & 16 gr. of 2400 , & yes my nose is 302 & will engrave at the muzzle but not at the throat & will chamber at 314 !!

[RU shooter]

Does anyone have a nice big photo of C312-155-2R and/or C312-185-1R they can post?

Thank you,
MJ Here you are both are already sized to .311 Both of these moulds drop .312 with my WW alloy

26462

[Marlin Junky]

Here you are both are already sized to .311 Both of these moulds drop .312 with my WW alloy


Three questions:

What temperature is your alloy when using the C312-185?

What is the nose diameter on your C312-185?

Did you buy the mold recently?

Thanks,
MJ

[RU shooter]

Three questions:

What temperature is your alloy when using the C312-185?

What is the nose diameter on your C312-185?

Did you buy the mold recently?

Thanks,
MJ

#1 dont know ?

#2 .302

#3 no its an older SC, The 155 is a newer DC though My older SC 155 drops at.314 and has a slightly different nose profile and a smaller lube groove.



Tim

[Marlin Junky]

Thanks Tim.

MJ