water quenching again

[targetshootr]

I was reading through old posts and have a question about water quenching. So far I've been using straight wheel weights for mild revolver ammo and when I sent some off to be checked they averaged 12 bhn. If I ever want a batch to be 16 bhn or so, is there simple way to water quench to get them close? From what I read it sounds like a pause in the time they leave the mold till they hit the water might make them less than 20-something bhn. Or, since store bought cast booits are available, would it be easier to mix some of them with ww to raise the bhn? They're approx $1 per lb.

[dk17hmr]

I quench all the bullets I make except for my muzzy bullets.

Couldnt tell ya about the BHN never really cared much about that. I can tell you WW's quenched get pretty hard. With my 45 I have shot through some pine logs and found bullets not deformed.

I take a 5 gallon bucket of water about half full put a towel in the bottom then put another towel over the mouth of the bucket with slack in it, cut a slit in the bottom of the towel so they roll down and drop in the water.

[BABore]

Most store bought will likely be made from an alloy that is richer in antimony and tin than your WW's. Water dropping, after a tested time delay would work, but I'm afraid any consistency would be lost. Too many variables to deal with.

You have a couple other options that will work. You can OHT or WD, then oven anneal them. You can start at around 350 F for and hour and turn the oven off. Leave them in until cool. You have to play with the temp to get where you want to be. I think I was just below 400 F to get 16 Bhn with WW's. According to Marshall Stanton, at Beartooth, you can boil the HT'd bullets for a certain amont of time and dump them on a towel. Only supposed to take 5-15 minutes, but I've yet to try it.

The best option would be to cut your WW's with pure lead, stick-on WW's, or 22 lr range scrap. I use a 50/50 alloy exclusively. It will OHT or WD to 18-22 Bhn. It runs around 9 Bhn AC'd. If you want it a bit softer you may want to try 40% WW's and 60% Pb. Water drop a few then test after the require 1-2 weeks of aging time. You may have to tweak it from there. There is a line you can cross where there's not enough antimony and arsenic to allow hardening. You can correct a batch with a bit of magnum lead shot if needed. These alloys will expand after hardening at 1,400+ fps. They won't rivet and shear like straight OHTWW's. I've shot AC 50/50 to 1,800 fps in my rifles with accuracy, no leading and super expansion.

[357maximum]

The best option would be to cut your WW's with pure lead, stick-on WW's, or 22 lr range scrap. I use a 50/50 alloy exclusively. It will OHT or WD to 18-22 Bhn. It runs around 9 Bhn AC'd. If you want it a bit softer you may want to try 40% WW's and 60% Pb. Water drop a few then test after the require 1-2 weeks of aging time. You may have to tweak it from there. There is a line you can cross where there's not enough antimony and arsenic to allow hardening. You can correct a batch with a bit of magnum lead shot if needed. These alloys will expand after hardening at 1,400+ fps. They won't rivet and shear like straight OHTWW's. I've shot AC 50/50 to 1,800 fps in my rifles with accuracy, no leading and super expansion.


I have switched to 50/50 and I push them to 2100-2200 in all my 35& 44 cals,,,,I will never look back...If I had to choose a one word description of this alloy it would be............PERFECTION


Half WW and Half lead will shoot what I need to shoot, and it expands when it gets there,,,perfect shrooms,,no shearing...It would take a $30.00 to $50.00 box of premium J-words to equal their performance....Mikey Likes It

[targetshootr]

I've shot AC 50/50 to 1,800 fps in my rifles with accuracy, no leading and super expansion.

So air-cooled 50/50=ww/pure lead, at 1800fps, which is more velocity than l'd need in a pistola boolit. Are they still at 9 bhn? l saved all the stick-ons not knowing what to do with em.

[waksupi]

I use a broiler oven, and experiment with various temperatures, until I hit the hardness I want. I suspect somewhere areound 325-350 would put you in the ball park.

[drinks]

Give up on all the WAGs, rat hole the $30 plus shipping and order a Lee hardness tester from Midway, almost as much fun for the casting handloader as a $80, on sale chrono!

[45 2.1]

So air-cooled 50/50=ww/pure lead, at 1800fps, which is more velocity than l'd need in a pistola boolit. Are they still at 9 bhn? l saved all the stick-ons not knowing what to do with em.

The air cooled 50/50 alloy is about 9 BHN. Velocities over about 1600 fps were shot with gas checked boolits. If you want to try this alloy with plain based boolits, you will have to protect the base of the boolit in some manner. The water dropped or oven heat treated version of 50/50 will expand nicely as BABore says on up to the alloys limits. I've tried it in various calibers and it seems to want to start flash leading about 2200 fps to 2300 fps dependent on the pressure involved. The 50/50 water dropped alloy will have a harder skin and soft core which allows you to drive it faster and get excellent expansion in a wider velocity range than most other alloys.

[44man]

I have been water dropping for years because it makes the casting session go smoother and steadier. I don't have much space where I cast and I hate fooling with towels and having to shift boolits out of the way and transferring some to boxes. It takes time from pouring and has a worse effect on mould temperature by having to stop casting now and then. I use towels for BPCR and hate the shifting around. All other boolits go into water. I have not found a single difference in accuracy by the amount of time difference of when a boolit hits the water.
It is not that I need the boolits to be that hard but I love the ease of it.
I agree that 50-50 is the best all around compromise and is great for hunting but for my accuracy loads, harder works better in my revolvers.

[georgeld]

Wow, the details some of you guys go thru is amazing to me.

All I care about is they are filled out well, and hard enough I can't mark them with a thumbnail. Then they won't lead a bore until the velocity is out of reason for cast anyway. But again I don't shoot them in centerfire rifles either. That would make a difference no doubt.

While casting most of the time I'm leaning on my knee's. Once the sprue has frosted over, it's knocked off and back into the pot, then the bullets are dumped into a full five gallon bucket of cold water.

Until recently I tried to catch them in a coffee can with holes in the bottom of it. But, digging around in the shop the other day I found a parts cleaning basket that fits a bucket just about right. Casting some over 500 .45's the other day not a one got past the basket. This makes it much easier to pull them out of the bucket without having to fish for them all in the cold water. Sometimes in winter when it's cold that water might have frost, or a skim of ice on it when the session starts.

Far as alloy mixture. Straight range salvage seems to be the best mixture I've found yet. Don't have a clue what the BNH is. Just for the hell of it, I would like to know in order to compare to what you guys are getting after doing all this tweaking, tempering, baking and what not.

Hope no one takes my off the wall comments as offensive. It's just that for my use I haven't found much of these special things necessary. Therefore I have a hard time justifying it. Same as all the elaborate case preparation many reloaders go thru. Brass is brass long as it's good enough to reload and shoot. Once it starts cracking, or some defect shows up, it's tossed. Sorting by brand, number of times it's been fired etc don't matter until they fail to pass a visual inspection for some reason or other. Cast bullets are about the same thing. Long as they pass a visual inspection they're good enough.

I only cast, load and shoot about 10,000 a year lately. There for several years I was shooting over 1000 a week, then it kept me busy loading much of the spare time.

Brooks: you have access to a hardness tester? IF so, check that stuff out and let us know how hard it is, ok? Thanks G.

Wish you well,

[454PB]

Georgeld, I'm with you! There is no reason to go through all this hokus, other than a good learning experience.

But isn't it like finally finding that one recipe for your favorite hunting rifle? You know, the one that consistently delivers 3/4" groups at 100 yards. Most guys can't leave it alone, they still experiment and try different bullet, brass, and powder combinations.

The trials and testing are the facinating part of this casting addiction.

[44man]

Georgeld, the only thing about brass is what kind of shooting you are doing. In my 45-70 BFR I had several rows of brass that was loaded maybe 40 times and the rest were loaded different amounts from 2 to 10 times. Accuracy went right out the window if I mixed any. I had to anneal all of it and it again shoots tight groups. My fault for not keeping track of it and loading all at the same time and shooting all of them before loading again. I just experiment too much to load all with one load.

[boogerred]

i think you have to decide where your satisfied. when i started i read with great interest all posts,articles magazines,and books about casting,BHN,alloys,temps,fluxing,velocities and pressures. i tried for awhile to get everything perfect but decided that since i shoot mostly revolvers at 1400fps or less i was already doing it right for what i shoot. ive learned the melt temp,mould temps and what alloy to use for the bullet im casting with this mould for this gun. i am satisfied with my results and methods.