.45 ACP slight leading

[Mattog22]

OK, I'll start with the fact that I am using the Lee 6 cavity 230 gr TL mold. I know a lot of people don't like them but that's what I have to work with at the moment. I had one that would make boolits that would measure up to .454 and at one spot just off of the seam where the two sides of the mold would measure as low at .4505. Unhappy with the fact that they weren't perfectly round I sent it back, now the one I got back does the same thing! I am using digital calipers which I know aren't very good so take those with a grain of salt, I'm getting a micrometer later today.

Well, I have been getting slight leading, by this I mean that I get a very small amount where the chamber starts into rifling. I also get these slight lead tracks on each side of the lands most of the way down the barrel. These are evident after about 25-50 rounds. It never gets any worse. I went out today and shot 300 all within about 45 minutes and the leading is still just the same. So I am not too overly concerned but it just bothers me. Would one small spot that measures .4505 cause leading if the rest of the boolit is .451+?

Oh yeah, I tried Alox cut with Mineral spirits and Alox with JPW and they both shoot exactly the same so I don't think it's a lube issue. Is this leading acceptable to most of you since it never really builds up? I know I need to slug the barrel and I will, and I understand that I will get that response and I understand. I just haven't made the pure lead boolit and will get the micrometer today.

Thanks for the help

Matt

[HeavyMetal]

Honestly a good Caliper is as accurate, for casting, as one needs.

While I am not a fan of tumble lube it is, after all, what you have to work with.

Having said that I will make a suggestion or two that will be a shot in the dark not knowing what alloy your using.

First if you have a low spot on your boolit your gonna get leading. In this case I won't put the blame on Lee yet as I have seen this before.

So you may be running the mold to hot or your alloy to hot. most likely both.

you may need to add a little tin to your alloy and turn down the heat just a touch.

If you have a pre heater for your mold you may want to set it up so the mold can sit on it side ways and heat the sprue plate. I've found that when a caster can't get good base fillout the first thing they do is turn up the heat!

I have found rotating molds on a hot plate set up as I've suggested allows me more control of the heat in the sprue plate and much less scrap due to failed base fillout!

What are you currently running as an alloy? If your running close to pure lead adding some clip on ww metal may also provide a little extra hardness and get this problem to go away!

Check these suggestions against what you are currently doing and see if one or more will fix things.

[Gohon]

I've got the two cavity mould of the same bullet and mine measure .454 on the rear driving band and .452 across all lube bands. This is WW and 2% tin as a alloy. I lube mine with 50/50 LLA and JPW and no leading. The rear driving band would be the spot I'd worry about as that is where sealing of the bore is going to take place to keep from gas cutting. You didn't say what your alloy was or the speed you're shooting them at so that makes the guesstimate a little harder but it sounds like more of a rough throat than a bullet problem. Just a guess on my part.

[Mattog22]

Sorry, I did forget to mention that I am using wheel weight alloy. I think my mold must not be lining up properly again in order to give me a small spot just off one side of the seam and a larger diameter just off the other side of the seam. I don't know if this is something I can get away from since it has happened on both molds I've had. Please correct me if I am wrong, as I am still relatively new at casting.

Can you please explain to me how the mold too hot makes undersized spots? I understand the lead being too hot and when cools shrinks but I don't quite understand the mold being too hot. I do use a thermometer and always keep my lead under 700, usually closer to 630-650. I also did measure ones when my mold was too cold to fill out properly and they were even smaller (I had no intention on using these, just for my own knowledge I measured them)

Thanks for all the help, don't think I could have ever started doing this without all you guys here.

Matt

[Mattog22]

Sorry again, more info, I'm using Clays at 3.9 gr and I think they are in the 700's somewhere if I remember correctly. Shooting out of a STI trojan

[runfiverun]

it ain't a problem why sweat it.
you aren't losing accuracy and you are only getting so much then it stops.
keep on havin fun.
if it freaks you out or sumthin then harden up the alloy some,leement the mold,heck.. yell at the alloy pot.

[Shiloh]

Your leading seems to be an inconvenient smear. It isn't getting any worse, so it is more of an annoyance. I take ith that it comes out easily?? Does it remove with a patch or does it require a brush?? Is it the 230 roundnose or TC mold?? I have the TC mold. I get no leading.

I also have the traditional groove version otf the 230 RN. I lube that with LLA as well and get no leading at about 825 fps.

Shiloh

[Mattog22]

Thanks guys, probably right that it's more of an annoyance than anything. They are the 230 gr RN TL. I have a feeling it's due to the slightly undersized part of the boolit but probably not really hurting anything. Accuracy seems just fine too. I think I just needed to hear it from someone else.

[mpmarty]

I too use the LEE 230gr tl mold in 45acp but mine are the truncated cone type. I use the fifty fifty mix of LLA and JPW and am pleased with the results. Warm loads of five grains of Red Dot and no leading at all in my XD45, two 1911s and a Taurus PT145. I went to the TCTL boolit as the XD won't feed and function with the 200gr semi wad cutters I used to use.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have been getting slight leading, by this I mean that I get a very small amount where the chamber starts into rifling. Matt

there is a chance that the gun may be the issue.
Is this a new Gun ?
have you used other Lead bullet ammo in it with no leading ?

If the barrel hasn't been cleaned very much and not polished so to speak,
you could have a tiny burr on the start of the rifling.

I have had a few Ruger handguns that had an issue like this.
I have used a brass jag on the end of a cleaning rod with a cloth patch
coated with Flitz to polish the barrel to succesfully solve this problem.
Jon

[HeavyMetal]

It doesn't sound like your running your alloy to hot.

Temps you've listed seem a little cool for WW metal At 650 I think your seeing fillout issues not hot spots.

TL molds can be a real pain to get to fillout correctly. Take a good hard look at any castings you haven't lubed and shot and see what they look like, use a strong magnifiying glass for this!

So with the additional info you have supplied I will suggest you change nothing in your casting process, same mold same heat same rythem.

I will suggest you add 2% tin by volume to your lead pot.

Now when you cast do not use the handle on the sprue plate to keep the mold closed just the regular handles that screw onto the mold proper!

Hard to believe but some guys grab that third handle and it causes the mold to spring open while pouring.

Try this and see what happens.

[Mattog22]

It doesn't sound like your running your alloy to hot.

Temps you've listed seem a little cool for WW metal At 650 I think your seeing fillout issues not hot spots.

TL molds can be a real pain to get to fillout correctly. Take a good hard look at any castings you haven't lubed and shot and see what they look like, use a strong magnifiying glass for this!

So with the additional info you have supplied I will suggest you change nothing in your casting process, same mold same heat same rythem.

I will suggest you add 2% tin by volume to your lead pot.

Now when you cast do not use the handle on the sprue plate to keep the mold closed just the regular handles that screw onto the mold proper!

Hard to believe but some guys grab that third handle and it causes the mold to spring open while pouring.

Try this and see what happens.

I will make sure not to use the sprue handle, not sure if I usually do or not. The small spot is at the exact same spot on every boolit, just off the edge of the seam. That's what makes me think it's not lining up correctly, could that happen from bad fill out because that's just where it tends to be short in the mold? Then again, maybe I'm using that sprue handle and putting pressure making it not line up correctly. Maybe I will try again tonight.

[Mattog22]

there is a chance that the gun may be the issue.
Is this a new Gun ?
have you used other Lead bullet ammo in it with no leading ?

If the barrel hasn't been cleaned very much and not polished so to speak,
you could have a tiny burr on the start of the rifling.

I have had a few Ruger handguns that had an issue like this.
I have used a brass jag on the end of a cleaning rod with a cloth patch
coated with Flitz to polish the barrel to succesfully solve this problem.
Jon

I haven't shot any other lead but it also happens with my S&W 1911 exactly the same way so I think it's the boolit

[Mattog22]

I too use the LEE 230gr tl mold in 45acp but mine are the truncated cone type. I use the fifty fifty mix of LLA and JPW and am pleased with the results. Warm loads of five grains of Red Dot and no leading at all in my XD45, two 1911s and a Taurus PT145. I went to the TCTL boolit as the XD won't feed and function with the 200gr semi wad cutters I used to use.

What's the diameter of your boolits?

[Mattog22]

What are the diameters for any of you guys not getting leading? Are all of your guys the same diameter all the way around, because mine arent

[runfiverun]

your mold is designed to run hot, it will expand as it heats up try a hotter aloy temp [750 or so] and see how the boolits come out.
i have three aluminum molds 2 nei's made by walt and one n.o.e.
all three of them i start out at "the alloy won't solidify in them" hot, and go down from there just a bit.

[chris in va]

I got some leading with that mold and my Sig 220. Using Johnson Paste Wax/Alox seemed to help a lot, but still had to scrub out the barrel every couple hundred rounds.

I switched to the Lee 452-228-1R mold and ironically I get absolutely ZERO leading out of the stock Glock 21sf barrel. Go figure.

[Mattog22]

I can try running the lead hotter, I just always heard that if the lead is too hot it will get even smaller when it cools. When I cast I do get to the point that I have to wait about 10 seconds for the sprue to harden. I am using the Alox/JPW mix already.

[Dale53]

I have the Lee .45 TC bullet mould (six cavity) with normal lube grooves. I size to .452" (the bullets are not perfectly round but vary .002-.003" but pretty much clean up with sizing in the Star). I lube with Lars White Label Carnauba Red. I get NO leading in my two S&W 625 revolvers. They are not quite as accurate as my MiHec mould clones of the H&G #68 but will shoot groups consistently at 1 1/4" at 25 yards off a rest. That is NOT bad! All in all, an excellent design that in full moon clips FALL into the revolver and should also feed in any decent 1911 without issue.

FWIW
Dale53

[Mattog22]

Since I'm using the TL design I don't size them. I tried a Lee sizing die and it cut them down to .450 so I never used it again. I would love to get boolits that aren't less than .452

[mooman76]

The boolits tend to grow about .001 after a week of setting. Sometimes the boolits come out larger with a hotter mould because the mould expands. You could also try beagling the mould and you can get .001 or .002 larger or lament your mould. You can also enlarge your sizer abit if you like. If you have some stick on WWs they are soft and you can use them to slug your barrel.

[Mattog22]

The boolits tend to grow about .001 after a week of setting. Sometimes the boolits come out larger with a hotter mould because the mould expands. You could also try beagling the mould and you can get .001 or .002 larger or lament your mould. You can also enlarge your sizer abit if you like. If you have some stick on WWs they are soft and you can use them to slug your barrel.

I may eventually try beagling the mould, isn't that using a small piece of paper to slightly open the mould? I can look it up. These boolits have set a week. I have actually let mine set for longer than that and haven't been able to see any growth.

[bigboredad]

this is what worked for me when I was using a the lee 230 tltc my best results were while running the mold hot it seemed to help fill out the bands I then dropped them in water left them unsized. I never could get the alox jpw mix just right but best result were with straight jpw finally tried pan lubing and leading finally went away. so I save my allowance got a rcbs 230-rn and a lubrisizer I have a shiny barrel and I'm happy maybe some of this dribble will be of use good luck

[Gohon]

I tried a Lee sizing die and it cut them down to .450 so I never used it again.

So you were using a .450 sizing die? Unless the die is defective it won't reduce the diameter any more than what it is gauged for. Is it possible your calipers are off?

I actually run my alloy pot at 750-800 degrees and even with a six banger my sprue puddle is solidified at no more than 4 seconds from the last hole filled.

[Mattog22]

I was using a .452 sizing die and it was making them smaller than it says. I don't think my calipers are off because everything else I measure seems right. Maybe Im mistaken but it seems like it sometimes takes several seconds for the sprue to start frosting so maybe Im getting the mould hot but need my alloy hotter.

[bigboredad]

I had a lee sizing die doing the same thing. However it is very easy process to open up a lee sizing die it only to 15 minutes on that one to go from .450 to.4525

[mpmarty]

I don't size my 230 tltc 452 boolits at all. 50/50 LLA / JPW and load em up.

[243winxb]

Is this leading acceptable to most of you since it never really builds up? Ok by me as long as accuracy is good. See photos here of barrel leading. http://www.photobucket.com/joe1944usa http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_40shots.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/40shots.jpg) Barrel looks bad, but accuracy was the same thru out the test from first 40 rounds to last 200. Lee info >
Increasing mold diameter

If you need the mold diameter of your cast bullets to be increased just slightly, there is a way to accomplish this with negligible ballistic results.

With the mold open, be sure you liberally lube the mold blocks in front of and behind the bullet cavity. Place a small section of cigarette paper or writing paper to the lubed block . This prevents it from burning.

When casting the bullet, the diameter of the bullet will be increased by the paper width. You can actually go up to about .010 before you begin to see lead flashing appear. While the bullet will be slightly "out of round", this very minimum amount will not effect accuracy or the manner in which the bullet travels through the forcing cone and barrel of your gun.


Cast Bullet Leading -A clue to what is causing the leading is where the leading first begins to appear. If it appears near the chamber, chances are that bullet diameter or hardness are the cause.

A diameter too small and/or too hard an alloy will allow high pressure gas to leak past the bullet, which erodes the bullet and leaves leading near the chamber.

If the leading first appears on the leading edge of the rifling (if you imagine the bullet being pushed through the barrel, you will note that one edge of the rifling does most of the work of imparting a spin to the bullet. This is the edge you see when you look through the barrel from the breech end) the bullet might be too soft, and/or the velocity too high.

If the leading appears in the second half of the barrel, the bullet is running out of lube. You should see a star shaped pattern of lube accumulate on the muzzle. This is an indication that there is a little excess lube

[243winxb]

Make your alloy/mold hotter till you get frosted bullets, see if fill out is better.

[Mattog22]

My bullets are always frosted. My leading is not quite as bad as the pics, as in I don't get the little ribbons curling off, but I do get a little more build up about a half inch following the chamber and thin lead skids along each land in the rifling. I am thinking that the small undersized area is the culprit. I will try the cigarette paper and give it a try. If increasing my size doesn't work I guess I'll play with temperature. Since I'm getting frosted boolits (which seem much more consistent than shiny ones from a cooler mold) I think my temp is hot enough but who knows, I'm a rookie. Thanks for the help.

Matt

[Mattog22]

my other concern is if I use the cigarette paper to open the mould slightly then it will help my undersized spot but may also make my larger spot on the out of round boolit that measures .454 even bigger and may not chamber. I guess at that point I'll have to get the sizing die back out and open it up.