Shotgun powders in the '06

[Marlin Junky]

I'm looking for reduced velocities (1300 to 1700 fps) from my '06 and was wondering what powders others have found to consistently provide good accuracy with 150 to 180 grain boolits. I can start off with gas checked boolits and work my way to PB's later since the only .30 PB mold I own is 311410 (which I'm not particularly fond of).

I'm almost out of 4759 and not planning to buy anymore just yet because I feel it works better with 175+ grain boolits at around 2000 fps. I have a bunch of WC-820 but that stuff works better with a grain of Dacron and I'd rather find a suitable shotgun propellant for this type of application. Unfortunately, QuickLoad doesn't provide data for the IMR Shotgun powders so I could really use some advice. Are the Alliant powders (Unique, GreenDot, whatever) more suitable? It seems like there's a better selection among the IMR powders; i.e., the SR's and the HI SKOR's.

Thank you,
MJ

[mpmarty]

I have found that seven grains of Red Dot seems to be a very happy solution to this in almost any 06 size 30cal case (7.5X55 Swiss in particular as well as 7.62X51 Nato)

[Von Gruff]

11.5gn Red Dot gets 1500fps in my 7x57. 160gn boolit and good plinking accuracy.

Von Gruff.

[Marlin Junky]

OK, two votes for RedDot. I was thinking RedDot is a little fast burning. Is it possible to stretch things out a bit to small game-like accuracy out to about 150 yards? I guess my stated requirements didn't articulate my intentions, so please allow me to take another whack at it.

Primarily I want to build '06 loads that'll be dependable on a day to day basis, no matter what the weather, that will cleanly take up to coyote sized game out to 150 yards. I was thinking all this could be done with a 40-50% density charge of a shotgun type powder and a water-dropped 50/50 (Pb/WW) gas checked boolit.

MJ

[skeet1]

Marlin Junky,
Ed Harris has written a very good article on using Red Dot. Here is a link http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html hope you find it useful.

Skeet1

[runfiverun]

red dot is okay the pressure is pretty high though for the velocity. 13 grs is 40k.
i like 2400 with the boolits/alloy you describe.
if i were to try for bulk density i'd try 800-x it's fluffy and a bit slower than unique it's also not affected by the cold.
i'd also look at using lp primers for consistency.

[Marlin Junky]

I don't have any RedDot but I think it's too fast. I've got some #2 and 453 which have similar burn rates to RD which I could try even though I've already tried them in the 30-30 with less than stellar results. I was thinking I'd need to go with something like GreenDot 700X or maybe Unique (or a bit slower) in the '06. I may be able to borrow or trade for some Unique. 800X sounds interesting but I wonder how well it will meter. I believe I also have some Alliant 2400 but according to QuickLoad, at 1/3 capacity we're doing over 1800 fps and that sounds like we're going to need a filler in order to perform consistently. How well does 2400 work as a reduced load powder in the '06 with 150-170 grain boolits?

MJ

[beagle]

I started of with the 311291 and Unique. I always have about 10 pounds around as it good for everything. I've always been a bit leary of Red Dot but have shot a bunch of it and have never had any problems./beagle

[MtGun44]

10 Unique or 16 2400.

Bill

[selmerfan]

Red Dot and Unique both work well for those velocity ranges in my .30-06

[RU shooter]

Unique works very well in the application your speaking of. I've found excellent accuracy with several boolits in the 150-185 gr range start at 10 grs and work up to your rifles sweet spot mine has been 11.0 and 14.5 with the lee 155 , 15 gr under that same boolit is exc. in my 7.5 swiss

[Marlin Junky]

10 Unique or 16 2400.

Bill

Tell me more about your 16/2400 load.

I was thinking about trying 22/2400 with my RCBS 30-165-SIL (175.5 grains dressed in my alloy) next Monday. According to QuickLoad, it should produce 25.2K PSI and hopefully good stats over the Chrony. If all else fits, maybe even a nice 10 shot group will result. My boolits are plenty hard enough at 26 BHN.

MJ

[MtGun44]

16 gr of 2400 is a "standard" cast boolit load that has worked well in many of the
large milsurp bottleneck cartridges like .30-06, .303 Brit, 7.7Jap, 7.62x54R, etc.
for many shooters over the years. It is moderate in all the ones that I have tried,
watch out for smaller cases like .30-30 or 6.5 Carcano, may need to reduce and
work up.

16.0 of 2400 has worked very well for me in my Ruger 77 7x57 and in .30-40 Krag.

10 gr of Unique, 16 of 2400 and 13 of Red Dot are pretty widely used as moderate
loads for cast boolits in large milsurp bottleneck cartridges. Ed Harris wrote a ground
breaking series of cast boolit articles for the NRA in the 50s (maybe early 60s) and made the
Red Dot load famous - I have never used it, never kept Red Dot around in the past,
ran into a old can cheap at a gun show last year, will try it one of these days. I have
used the Unique and 2400 loads in multiple calibers with good to excellent results.

These loads are well worth noting as really excellent starting places for moderate
power cast boolit loads in the above class of rifles. Adjust up or down as
Mr. Target recommends. Mr. Target never lies. ;-)

Bill

[Eagles6]

I like Unique t 17 grs for a 165 gr boolit w/gc since I'm thrifty...allright cheap. Gives you around 1900 fps with 37,000 c.u.p.<p>
I've used 13 grs of 700x that works fine for around 1600 fps and around 37,000 c.u.p. Works fine 'cause it was free.<p>

[Calamity Jake]

You can't go wrong with 16-20 of 2400 with 150gr to 210gr boolits

[noylj]

See Trail Boss:
http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

I've used unique and Blue Dot.

[runfiverun]

800-x meters pretty well for me [about like unique does] steel powder don't meter well though which is odd as they are quite similar.
2400 don't need a filler and has become my go to powder for general cast fun in everything from 223 up through the 0-6.
if i am looking for super accuracy then i go to the medium [4895 etc] powders with a filler.
remember to try a few different brisance level primers.

[Marlin Junky]

22 grains of Alliant 2400 behind the RCBS 30-165-SIL seems pretty mild according to QuickLoad (25.2K PSI). What am I missing here?

MJ

[Bret4207]

As Bill said 13.0 Red Dot or 16.0 2400 work fine. I'm using both in 308, 35 Whelen, 8x57, 7.65 Argie, 35 Rem too IIRC. Ed Harris found the 13.0 Red Dot load in the early 80's, Col EH Harrison was the guy back in the 50's.

You might "think" the Red Dot is too fast, but I can assure you it works. You can extrapolate with similar and slower powders from there.

[Will]

I've used 20gr 2400 with 150grgc for 30yrs with never a missfire or wild shot. It is my standard cast load for the 06. Good for anything from tin cans up to small whitetail.

[Marlin Junky]

OK, I'm developing a rather long list of powders to try in the '06 that are faster than 4759.

What about the HI SKORs and 4756? Are there any others? I may try some GreenDot Monday but my supply is from "pull down" skeet ammo I assembled back in the 70's, so I don't know how indicative that'll be with respect to today's GreenDot. From the long list I'm compiling, my powder of choice doesn't necessarily need to flow through a powder measure like egg-timer sand; however, it does need to work well without filler.

MJ

[runfiverun]

h-322 is about the cut-off speed for starting to use fillers.
the 700-x is a fast powder in the red-dot burn range.
you have [in the shotgun ranges] a couple of different speeds.
aa#2, red dot, 231, clays. range
aa#5,pb, green-dot, unique. range
and aa#9,2400,800-x .range
and the h-110,aa1680,4227.range
thats how i think of powders anyways, then break each category into it's own subset of burn rates.
so i can work within each subsets range.
i do the same thing with medium and slow rifle powders.
just so i don't keep on trying the same things over and over again.

[lylejb]

What about the HI SKORs

700x is fast, almost a red dot clone ( or maybe the other way around) Used a bunch of it in 12 ga trap loads years back. It's a coarser flake like unique, but has yellow dots. I don't see much advantage or differance in red dot vs. 700x.

800x is much slower, slower than unique, and herco. faster than blue dot.
I do remember 800x was removed from 38 special load data some years back, something about erratic pressures in some circumstances? ( don't remember exactly) I don't think I would try it in low load densities like the 06.

just my .02 worth

[Shiloh]

Red Dot and Unique are shotgun powders that have cast boolit applications.

Shiloh

[rintinglen]

I have had excellent results with 17.5 grains of 2400--in just about every case I've put it in. In 30-30's, used with the excellent RCBS 30-180 flat nose, I get about 1800 FPS and 3" iron sighted groups. The same load in my 30-40 shoots very well, though at reduced velocity. And my 30-06 just dotes on the 311-467 on top of the same charge. I get 1 3/4- 2" groups at 100 yards from that sporterized springfield barrel, which is as good or better than any other bullet I have tried in that gun. You can go higher, should you feel the need, but my goal with cast boolits is accuracy, not speed.

[shotman]

the 413 is a check boolit you CAN drive it but I am with the others 20gr 2400 is as much as I need
The red dot is a fast and low charge weight if you shoot at bench and can hold gun up before every shot to keep pwder at primer it may be ok
2400 dont need filler and is very good for a powder measure
ONE thing be very carefull not to double charge 40 grs of 2400 makes for a very bad day I know

[madsenshooter]

12.5gr of Blue Dot gives me 1575 with a 165gr boolit in the Krag. 20gr gives me 2000fps. Fire it with a magnum primer, the pressure wave from it is all the filler you need. If you try Blue Dot, you won't be bothering with anything else.

[Marlin Junky]

12.5gr of Blue Dot gives me 1575 with a 165gr boolit in the Krag. 20gr gives me 2000fps. Fire it with a magnum primer, the pressure wave from it is all the filler you need. If you try Blue Dot, you won't be bothering with anything else.

I think a friend is giving me some BD to try. Have you tried it with Federal 210 primers? I want to run my "shotgun powder loads" from 1600 to 2000 fps.

MJ

P.S. BTW, Alliant issued a warning a couple years ago with respect to NOT using Blue Dot in the .41 Magnum. Has anyone figured out why? Did Alliant just goof up their published data for the .41?

[AZ-Stew]

I use 7625 in handgun and shotgun. For handgun loads, it fills the case better than Unique in loads that produce the same velocity. Never tried it in rifle loads. Hodgdon's burn rate chart has it slower than PB, but faster than Unique. I've always considered it to be a bit slower than that, but it may be due to my applications for it.

Regards,

Stew

[Marlin Junky]

I use 7625 in handgun and shotgun. For handgun loads, it fills the case better than Unique in loads that produce the same velocity. Never tried it in rifle loads. Hodgdon's burn rate chart has it slower than PB, but faster than Unique. I've always considered it to be a bit slower than that, but it may be due to my applications for it.

Regards,

Stew

Here's the chart I refer to:

http://www.ramshot.com/powders/

This chart (first published in '04, I believe) lists 7625 after Unique.

MJ

[higgins]

MJ - The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 3d ed. lists several .30/06 loads for Green Dot in the velocity and bullet weight range you mention. I started loading reduced cast loads in .30/30 last year and used Green Dot because it's what I had on hand for loading 12 and 20 ga. shotshells (trying to reduce powders on hand). I got good results with .30/30 at about 1100-1200 fps with GD loads within the published range using a 311291 GC. I haven't tried any of the other "dots" but try Green Dot if you have some on hand. I think it's an underappreciated cast bullet powder.

[AZ-Stew]

Here's the chart I refer to:

http://www.ramshot.com/powders/

This chart (first published in '04, I believe) lists 7625 after Unique.

MJ

That ranking more nearly matches my impressions of 7625.

Regards,

Stew

[GP100man]

I had instant excellent results with a 314299 GCed sized 314 lubed with lars45 CR & 16gr. of 2400!!!

Thanks to the CASTBOOLITS forum my fist ventures with cast in rifles has been very rewarding !!!

True there relatively low pressure loads & I may go faster in the future but for now the 30-30 & 06 shoot where there pointed !!!!

[johnly]

I shoot between 10 and 12 grains of Trail Boss in my 30-06 rifles (depending on bullet weight). I like the bulk of the powder that makes double charges much easier to detect.

John

[zomby woof]

I got this out of my load book. All boolits are the LEE 180 lubed with LLA, shot through a 1903 A3.

15.0 Unique 1628 fps

16.0 2400 1400 fps
18.0 2400 1550 fps
20.0 2400 1692 fps

13.0 Red Dot no velocity but at 13.5 boolits went sideways

I like 2400 because it works well and meters better than unique. These powders don't require fillers either. I've settled at around 18.5 grains of 2400 as my practice load. It shoots very good at 200 yards.

[chasw]

FYI, I've had good luck at the lower end of the scale with SR4756. For velocities in the 1800 to 2000 fps range, Reloder 7 is my favorite choice. IMR 4198 also works well at the higher velocities, but requires weighing each charge due to its stick shape.

I prefer to put an appropriate amount of dacron on top of the powder charges for optimum uniformity and accuracy. My best .30 caliber boolit is a DD (double diameter) design from NEI that weighs 186 grains checked and lubed in Lyman no 2 alloy. - CW

[Ben]

16 grs. of 2400 in the 06' is a tried and true proven load in a wide variety of 30-06 rifles for me in the past :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0004-18.jpg

[Marlin Junky]

16 grs. of 2400 in the 06' is a tried and true proven load in a wide variety of 30-06 rifles for me in the past :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0004-18.jpg

No Dacron, Ben? Where the charges weighed or metered?

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

That ranking more nearly matches my impressions of 7625.

Regards,

Stew

Stew,

A friend gave me some 7625 and I've been trying to decide how much to use tonight behind RCBS 30-165-SIL (175 grains ready-to-fly). The pressure data I've been discovering suggests this stuff burns somewhat faster in a rifle than the charts (except Hodgdon's) indicate.

I'm going to try 15 grains with a BHN 27 RCBS 30-165-SIL (heat treated 50/50) and will post chronograph and group results (compared to 15 grains of GreenDot). Unfortunately, QuickLoad doesn't feature 7625 but if its characteristics are more like HP-38/231 (as suggested by Hodgdon's chart) then I shouldn't see much difference between its performance tomorrow and my last two range sessions with GreenDot.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

15 grains of SR7625 went 1602 fps (24" bbl) and the group was real good with 4 out of 5 into 7/16" C-C. Another grain opened the group up to no rounds touching and all within 1&3/16" C-C. The range was 75 yards. Velocity with the 16 grain load was 1665 fps (24" bbl). The accuracy with 7625 was much better than with GreenDot. SR7625 is about 7% slower than GD.

MJ