Lyman 311290 Cup Point

[Ben]

My 311290 is shooting real well out of a variety of .30 cal. rifles right now.

Here is a group that I fired with my Ruger # 1, .308 Win. :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311290%20Hollow%20Pointed/PICT0009b.jpg

Today I cast some Lyman 311290, " cup points ". I'm anxious to try them out. Might be just the ticket for white tails here in my area :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311290%20Cup%20Point/PICT0003.jpg

In my opinion, these numbers are just about perfect for my particular .30 cal. rifles , 30-06's and 308 Win. rifles :

I size to .3095 " in a Lee push thru ( nose 1st ) sizer , then lube in a separate operation with a .3105 Lyman H & I die in my Lyman 45 Lubri-sizer.

These are the numbers from an " As Cast Bullet ", prior to any sizing or lube.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311290%20Cup%20Point/PICT0005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311290%20Cup%20Point/PICT0006.jpg

[Blammer]

nice, got a pic of the HP pin? hard to see what the HP really looks like in them shiney boolits. :)

[beagle]

I haven't talked with Ben on this offline but I beleive he has stumbled on to a phenomenon that GeorgeXXX and I worked on a couple of years ago. The gist of it is that a wide HP taking up most of the meplat of a .30 bullet is very accurate at ranges up to 100 yards. More so than conventional nose styles.

To explain. George sent me some of his Ness No-richochet .30s several years ago to play with. These were from an older H & G mould and weigh 152 grains plus. Ness designed the mould for use in the .30/06 Springfield on groundhogs in the northeast where ricochets were very undesirable on account of the population density. They looked like a long HP'd .30 wadcutter.

I loaded up 50 in my 30/06 Number 1 and took them to the range one outing. I started shooting them into the ground in front of the berm and was checking for ricochets. There wasn't any out of 20 or so rounds. Velocity was an average of 1741 FPS.

Then, I decided that okay, that worked but I had serious thoughts about accuracy so I popped a couple of small stones and they disappeared. I then put two 5 round groups on paper at 100 yards hoping for maybe 2" groups. One group was a little over an inch and one went into 3/4". Holy she_te!

I e-mailed George with the results.

I got to thinking. I had an old 311397HP with a Cramer HP that made a very wide meplat. I loaded 20 for my .30/30 and they went into 2" at 100 yards which is pretty good for the M94 Winnie.

Again I e-mailed George and we talked. I believe there is something special about a wide meplat .30 bullet that makes it shoot really well up to 100 yards and I think Ben's right on the edge of this threshold.

I might be nuts but it sure looks like it from my two tests and Ben's results.

All right guys, weigh in here on this./beagle

[Ben]

Blammer :

I use the same HP pins in my NOE 311284 and my Lyman 311290 that you see above. ( I've got about 6 or 8 different styles )

Here is the cup point pin in place in the 311284 mold. Looks nearly identical in the Lyman 311290 also :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/PICT0002-39.jpg

[Ben]

Beagle :

I have no degrees in ballistics or terminal down range physics of projectiles in flight.

I can only ( since I'm rather simple minded ) walk down to the target and sort out what is shooting well and what isn't shooting well.

I certainly don't think you're " nuts ", I do think you have it pegged !

Seems to be a very accurate design in my rifles.

Ben

[georgewxxx]

I had thoughts of using the H&G no glance boolit on deer until I fired several of them into snow banks last spring just see how much they'll break up. I posted some loads & pictures on one of my web albums. The alloy I usually use is just plan 'ol WW. They weigh 147gr and mine mic out to .313". After hitting the snow banks, they expanded to .382 on average and lost better than 50% of their mass averaging 70.2gr. Velocity on those from a M-1 Garand is 2375FPS, and even with that open wadcutter looking meplat, a 8 round clip will run through the action as fast as you can pull the trigger like butter.

Scroll down part way on page 5 of this url..

http://www.sodcity.com/gallery2/view_album.php?set_albumName=Cartridge-Springfield-pictures-etc&page=1

So far I've tried them in 30-30, 308, 30-40Krag, 30-06 and all have shown excellent results. There are a few old Rifleman articles about shooting those Glance proof boolits posted too from back in the 30's.

Beagle has the mould right now and is going to do a piece for our CastPics some time in the future. ....Geo

[fatnhappy]

A picture is worth a thousand words.
George's snowbank boolits:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/lhsjfk3t/Snow_bank_sized.jpg

I would still give those a try on deer at 2400 fps. I'd expect that 70 grain shank to fully penetrate on about any reasonable facsimile of a broad side shot. Conversely I know of very few expanding bullets I'd expect to fully penetrate on head on body shots.

[Blammer]

thanks Ben, that is a bit deeper than my "dish" hp.

I really like the way the dish HP works on my 360180.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits%20fun/DSCN7697.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits%20fun/DSCN7691.jpg

and here is my 358315 with Dish HP.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits%20fun/DSCN7757.jpg

[jdgabbard]

All of you HP'ers are makin' me jealous...

[Ben]

Blammer ,

Yes, your " dish Hp " does look impressive !

Ben

[9.3X62AL]

Way too much boolit porn and tooling smut in this thread. How depraved.

[beagle]

Nice thing about the big HPs is that if it don't fall, you can look through the hole and see what it's leaning against....../beagle

[Jack Stanley]

Nice thing about the big HPs is that if it don't fall, you can look through the hole and see what it's leaning against....../beagle

Beagle , THAT statement above is just to funny !!!


Question about post number three . When you say they do well up to a hundred yards , does that mean they don't do well past that ??

Thanks , Jack

[STP22]

georgewxxx,

Many thanks for posting that link!

Oh my...!!![smilie=s:

Scott

[georgewxxx]

I don't like tooting my own horn on it, but there are a number of pictures that I've scanned from old books that I know I'd appreciate seeing. That program won't allow me much leeway, as I can only post jpg's on it. 4 books of the Pitman Notes have a wealth of info in them and if anyone wants to see certain pages let me know. .....Geo