45 acp loaded heavy?

[x101airborne]

So, lets just say some redneck wanted to shoot some hogs this week with a 45 acp. said redneck also has a ready supply of lee 255 rnfp cast from 2 parts lino to one part range scrap for a hardness of 20 bhn weighing 237.9 - 239.1. These were made for light 454 casull loads and ruger redhawk heavy 45 colt. Any ideas on powder charge? The weapon is a kimber team match with full guide rod and double stage springs. barrel slugs .451 exact and bullets are dropping .4519. If this is a fool idea, please say so. Redneck likes his kimber, and his eyesight.

[sqlbullet]

I would think any of these loads (http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45%20ACP&Weight=240&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=) should be fine. I might question the AA#7 load since it was from a guest, but the rest of these are from Alliant for Jacketed Bullets. Reduce 10% and work up.

[geargnasher]

I've done it, but your biggest problem with the Kimber are their *** slide lock levers snagging the fat nose on that boolit and prematurely locking the slide. Since that Lee 255rf is a plain-based boolit it runs into the thicker part of the case walls by the time you get it seated deep enough for a 1.240" COAL (the depth my Kimber likes). Winchester brass has thin walls, and IIRC so does Remington. I've had better luck with the 452664 since it is a bevel-base design, and it shoots very well, but I've ground a considerable bit off the slide lock to clear. I also put a Wolf 20# mainspring in my Tactical Pro II to keep from beating up the frame, although I can't say that it isn't beating up the locking lugs and link from slamming into battery so hard.

All that being said, the boolit that absolutly a hammer in the .45 ACP is the 454190. It feeds like it was made for the gun, has an almost perfect nose profile to fit the mag, have long COAL, not hang the slide lock on the nose, and not get the nose beaten up under recoil in the mag. I recently started carrying this loaded pretty hot with slow powder for my piggy-hunting backup gun.

Overall, if you don't have a chronograph to guesstimate pressures and don't want to go with a heavier slide spring, I'd stick with 230 grainers and published data, because odds are you can make a more powerful load and work it up in a safer manner using a collection of published data. Working up the heavies yourself, you might err on the side of caution and end up with a lower PF load.

Gear

[bhn22]

We've been discussing this subject here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=95569

BTW, I do agree completely with geargnashers choice of bullet. I use the same one for bowling pins.

[x101airborne]

Gear, bhn22.... Thanks. Thats very helpful. piggy's make me foam at the mouth and curse like I have terretts. I have been using the 454 casull and recently a heavy loaded 45 colt ruger. The revolver loads kill well, but are slow on the follow-up. i like the nose of this bullet, but worried that my alloy was too hard. I have killed 8 this week with everything from .22 lr to the lever gun 44 mag. Also, i feed around 6 families year round with hog meat. If you have ever run a bat-wing shredder through a gravel lined hog root, you can understand my hatred. I have even been casting my own 7/8 oz. slugs from an 11-87 for off the tractor use. my dad told me to quit because he was tired of getting hyde from around the blade carriers. OOPS.

[geargnasher]

Follow-up shots with the heavies are naturally slower, but like the famous demotivational poster says: "The .45 ACP. Because shooting twice is silly."

Gear

[chris in va]

I heard they're becoming a real problem in TX. I don't hunt, but in this case I would probably go after one just because they're so darn tasty.

[shooterchris]

Redneck, you could always order some starline 45 super brass and a heavier main spring and your problems would be solved. I know a 1911 smith and can ask him about the specs on the spring you need to order if you are interested. The heavier spring will keep your Kimber from beating itself to death and the super brass will handle the extra pressure. I have shot one of the 1911s that was set up this way and it would be a hog killer.

[geargnasher]

Interesting. My FIL used to work for Ace and has one of his .45 Supers, along with the inventor's load data. Cutting down .45 Win Mag brass is a chore.

Gear

[x101airborne]

just to run it by, I have installed a shock buffer pad, Wilson Combat heavy duty two stage springs, and it all seems to work well so far. I have had a little trouble with the case thickness at the base of the bullet. I loaded up some rounds with AA#7 starting at 10.0 and working up using a Winchester mag or standard primer. problem is i get leading at the top of the barrel only and groups are around 5" @ 25 yards rested. gonna check and make sure i got all the copper fouling out and re run the string. this weapon usually shoots my 200gr lhp match in a ragged clover at 25 yards.

[lwknight]

Yes there are hog problems in TX. Its not everywhere though. Where I have property , the hunters keep the hog population to where you really have to hunt for them.
Other places have reached critical mass. The hogs are propagating faster than the hunters can take them out. The stage is set for an explosion of hogs.

[x101airborne]

good thing is they taste great bbq'd and mix with deer for sausage really well. i just cant kill enough of em to save my old man's shredder or my front shocks. you get one shot, maybe two usually, and unless you are using a heavier deer caliber, follow up shots are common. That's why im trying for penetration and knockdown energy. I was carrying an AR-15 with 65 gr spbt Sierras for a truck gun, but have switched to the AR-10 and 165 Nosler Partitions. Now Id like to try the 200 gr cast fp in the 308, cause nosler is just too proud of them partitions. If I cannot iron out this 45 thing, then i will look into a heavy loaded 10mm or maybe a 44 automag. Reaming out a dedicated 1911 to 45 win mag or something equivalent is a definate possibility also.

[Char-Gar]

The Rednecks pistol was not designed for such bullets and loads. Can they be used? Yes they can.

However when you go beyond the parameter of pistol and cartridge design and tested and published loads, you are treading on thin ice. It is irresponsible to give such date to somebody you don't know and it is irrisponsible to use data from folks you don't know.

[shooterchris]

The 45 super case has the same exact outside dimensions as the 45 acp. The web of the case is thicker, allowing the case to handle more pressure....safely. Changing to the super only requires the mainspring to be heavier. There is no need to re-chamber. Look up the brass on starline's website and you'll see what i mean. Sorry if this suggestion seemed irresponsible, but I believe it safer than overpressuring a 45 acp case. Know many people that have made the switch with no fail, but I guess I should have put a disclaimer on my advise. Please consult a gunsmith, particularly one with lots of 1911 experience, before changing to the 45 super.

[pdawg_shooter]

I like a 240gr cast flat nose over 8.3gr of AA #5.

[x101airborne]

OK, OK, before someone nails me to a cross, I dont think im being irresponsible. I have beefed up the Kimber (as stated) and am not wanting to overload the 45 acp. I even stated that I may purchase a different weapon in a hotter caliber and to tell me if it is safe to try in my 1911. Several books have data for 240 and 250 lead bullets including my Lee manual that states possible velocities of 900+ fps. I am asking if anyone has had success with this idea within the limits of the standard ACP and are my bullets too hard for it. Thank you for your concern, Chargar, but I do not feel anyone is being irresponsible. Shooterchris is just being helpful and I understand without disclaimer that it is my baby. Pdawg shooter, I promise not to hold you liable and will work up carefully in my weapon. Two of the hogs i have killed this week have been near or over 300 lbs. hence the reason for the heavier load.

[shooterchris]

As a sidenote, I love shooting hogs! That's why this thread caught my attention. I would love to take a hog with one of my 1911s, but I don't know anyone who has. I have a buddy that has a AMT 7" long slide on a colt frame that is making the change to a super right now. We have been talking about taking a pig with his too. The gunsmith has his right now putting a new trigger, and bushing in it. Should be nice when it's done.:redneck:

[Markbo]

Said Redneck might also want to consider a .460 Rowland conversion. All the performance you are after in the same size package on any 1911 lower you have.
Mine is from Clark and not only does it pack some pop, it is a tackdriver.

[casterofboolits]

For the heavier boolits in the 45 ACP, I would want a fully supported barrel, 45 Super brass, heavy double spring recoil system, heavy firing pin spring, shock buff and a trip to my pistol smith to check timing.

Back in the 80's I cast some 255 SWC's for a couple police buddies that went to the 2nd chance Pin shoots. Results? One cracked frame, one cracked slide and a couple blown cases. But both 1911's had over a 1,000 rounds of heavy loads thru them.

Actually, I would prefer a 44 Mag. or 45 Colt revolver to a 1911 for hawgs.

H&G offered a #68BBS that supposedly dropped at 239 grains from wheel weights and BallistiCast still offers that boolit.

Perhaps a 230 TCFP loaded hot would do the trick.

[shooterchris]

My handgun of choice for hogs is my S&W 29.

[geargnasher]

I'm not giving load data, only boolit and maybe powder recommendations for what has worked for me, along with suggested gun mods. Flinging 25 more grains of lead than "standard" is not an issue if done within the operating limits of the platform. The only question is is it worth it to do so, because not all that much is gained.

I shoot 340-grain boolits in an SAA-style .45 Colt with zero issues, but I stay within the working pressure limits of that gun, so I'm only able to get about 650 fps out of it. I can get about 850 fps out of the 454190 in a 4" Kimber 1911, and by the energy numbers that's as far as I wanted to go. The gun gets harder and harder to shoot the hotter it's loaded, so at some point there are diminishing returns as well as safety limits.

The .45 Super works just fine with conventional brass, but I keep pressures at around max for the standard ACP loading.

I second the 230-grain TC for piggy medicine, works about as well as anything and holds together if you hit bone, and goes through bristle and hide better than a lot of designs. With conventional-weight boolits loaded to the upper range of safe power in your gun, you can probably do better with follow-up shots since they are a lot easier to control.

Gear

[x101airborne]

i shoot a lot of lever action 44 mag from a marlin and a ruger redhawk (the regular, not the super). I also have used a custom 260 grain cast hp that works well in the 45 colt. i just wanted to try a semi-auto to get away from cocking a single action in the moment (as I am not a speed shooter) or feeling the need to cock a double action. just habit, i guess. It was an idea, probably not a great one to use the 1911. hardball penetrates, but leaves little tissue destruction. hollow points fail to penetrate well, but give good tissue damage. i was thinking a flat point would do well, and i like the look of the rnfp. may save up for a tc mold or scrap the idea all together. i can back this up with experience as to how the rounds perform, not just book learnin. May look at the automag for a christmas present to myself.

[Catshooter]

Just so y'all know, the current manufacture Lyman 452424 mould has a smaller meplat than would have make Elmer happy. As a result it clears slide stops nicely.


Cat

[HeavyMetal]

Without going into a long winded explanation I think I would advise this redneck to take a look at another load.

I have had some experience in penatration tests using the H&G clone Lee makes ( not a group buy) suffice it to say that I was able to out perforem 230 ball ammo in plywood penatration tests with this boolit.

Cast out of my 92 3 5 alloy and quenched as cast ( 18bhn) lubed at the time with blue angel and 7.5 grains Unique I get just a touch over 1000 FPS from a 5 icnh Bar Sto barrel with no leading.

Think your boolits are to hard and this caused the leading.

Recoil was no where near as heavy as 230 ball and rcovery was much faster.

Try this load and see if it gets it done.

[Char-Gar]

Point of clarification. I have long shot Lyman 452423, a 240 plus grain Keith bullet in the 45 Auto Pistol. I have been doing so for 50 years and will continue to do so until they take my gun away from me in "the home". Beside my right now is a good 1911A1 Norinco, so loaded.

I have given and published loads for this bullet in the 45 ACP case and they are out there on the net. I am older and wiser now. All I will say is, there was data for this bullet in an older edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook using Bullseye powder. My loads are within the parameters of that book.

Although not old in terms of years, the Internet has morphed and changed in terms of it's users. There are lots and lots of very inexperienced reloaders and shooters here now. Some of them are good solid folks trying to learn and others are idiots who should not be allowed to handle a firearm without adult supervision. Iti is not always easy to tell the difference.

I am not comfortable scattering load data to the wind in such an environment not knowing who, what, when and how it will be used. If somebody wants data, it is out there, if they will just do a little digging. It they are too lazy to do that, I don't feel obligated to put myself at risk to help them.

[Grapeshot]

While the .45 ACP can, and has taken down hogs in the past, I would go with a .45 Colt using the Lyman 454424 (newer 452424) 255 grain Keith SWC or the Lyman 452664 250 Grain RNFP Cowboy with a stiff charge of AA#9 or Aliant's 2400. This is the load I use in my Colt Anaconda and my Buddy's Ruger BH in .45 Colt. Cast from WW or Range Scrap and WW mix, it performs well.

I've used the Lee 452-250-RNFP in my 1911A1's but prefer it in my S&W 625 using .45 Auto Rim Brass.

[geargnasher]

I see this thread as a discussion of the practicality/safety of building and loading the .45 ACP with heavier boolits to deliver more energy on target, not an argument of what kills hogs best.

My take on the latter is w t h are you doing hunting wild pigs with a handgun??? I use mine for backup only, and that means my primary gun (rifle or carbine) has either malfunctioned or run out of ammunition and I'm cornered by some not-so-happy piggies. At that point, I'll take anything I can get that is fast, reliable, and fits in an unobtrusive waist holster. I used to, and still do sometimes, use a .45 Colt revolver as backup, but it's a toss up. More power, smaller capacity. I can fire a single-action pretty fast with accuracy and control if I use both hands.

Gear

[mpmarty]

Back in the sixties while stationed TDY at the Monterrey school of languages we used to hunt feral pigs/wild boars on the peninsula with issue 1911s and GI hardball ammo. Never had a pig survive that 230 grain solid in the noggin.

[dogbert41]

Yeah, If I had a hog problem, I'd probably use my shotgun loaded with slugs or roundball first. Ar15 sounds like a real hoot as well.

For shooting .45acp 250+ in a 1911, I dunno. How about getting an XD in .45 I think they'll hold up a little better with the polymer frame. I found an older article on the net from on American Handgunner. It has been removed probably for reasons to do with not wanting to get sued so take what follows as you are on your own:

250 to 260 grain bullets on top of 5-6 grains Unique tuned to your gun for accuracy. That'll give you 45 Long Colt specs in .45 ACP. But again, I'd use it in an XD or FN 45 or some other polymer that is a bit over-engineered.

[nighthunter]

I think testing the limits of the 45 ACP is a foolish endeavor. The 45 functions well the way it is. Others before you have experimented in makeing a standard caliber into a magnum and many have learned a lesson the hard way. I suggest you load your 45 LC a little lighter and practice shooting it double action for follow up shots. Why hurt yourself or your firearm?

Nighthunter

[shooterchris]

We hunt with bay dogs, a catch dog, and a knife. I know it sounds nuts, but it was the first way I learned to hunt hogs. Still hunting is a recent endeavor.

[derek45]

I've hunted and killed deer with a S&W 625 5"

I emailed S&W asking about "45ACP revolver only" loads in my SIERRA book, and 45SUPER.

Asked them if I could load up a 230gr speer Gold-Dot to 1150-1200fps.

I was surprised, no lawyers were answering emails that day, and they said "YES"

Everything worked fine, none of the deer knew the difference

[35remington]

Even Sierra doesn't go up to the 1200 fps range with 230's in the ACP revolver. I'd counsel a little caution in your approach.....you're well over +P loads, and then some, with a 230 at 1200.

Back it down.