Need a new lead pot

[hornady]

It may be I am just getting older, but its just getting to be more trouble than the Lee is worth. So what do you guys think is the best pot for the money, and where would the best price be. I have been looking at both the RCBS and Lyman, leaning to the RCBS, is it worth the extra money.
It needs to be a bottom pour with a good mold guide; I use mainly Lyman 4 cavity molds. Thanks

[sourceofuncertainty]

What shortcomings of the Lee are causing you to want to change? That may make a difference in your choice.

For example, I use a Lee and was thinking about switching to RCBS because the Lee's dripping was annoying. But after cleaning it out and weighting the handle I don't have near as much of a problem. So now the Lee's limited capacity is annoying me, and the RCBS won't help much in that regard. Next stop for me would be a 40-lb model like the Magma.

[hornady]

This is my second Lee pot, both have been bottom pour, the first was a 10 pound, way too small, the second is the 20, the first like all Lee pots had the dripping problem, but the 20 pound is worse, and requires more maintenance, also the heat setting on this one seems to need a lot of attention to keep a stable temperature.
This pot is getting older and its time to replace it, and I want to see if there may be a better option than too go with the Lee and its quirks again. I know I could buy 6 Lees for the price of 1 RCBS, but if I am not fooling with the pot constantly it would be worth the money.

[cbrick]

Guess it depends on your pocket book. I have the Magma 40# and had a good dose of sticker shock and buyers remorse right up until the first time I put ingots in it and turned it on. Never looked back, some of the best money I ever put into my loading room.

The old RCBS pot is now used for small casting sessions & odd alloy's & such.

Rick

[Stork]

I've had the 10# Lee melter and the 20# Lee Pro 4-20. I had the chance to borrow a friends RCBS 20# and fell in lust, just had to have one. The lack of constant dribbling lead and more importantly its ability to quickly melt additional ingots sold me on the RCBS. I don't regret it for a second.

[mdi]

Well, for me no, not worth the cost. I just did a search through my vendor page and the RCBS Pro-Melt lists at over $350, and Lee lists their Pro 4-20 at less than $75.00. I have the Lee Pro 4-20 pot that I used for a few years with little trouble, just occationally it gets the drips. Don't know for sure which is better but Lee makes a Production Pot IV that uses a different handle/valve assembly. BTW, I don't have to fool with the pot constantly to get a hundred boolits at a sitting. Maybe there's other things that contribute to your dripping prob...

[cbrick]

Well, for me no, not worth the cost. I just did a search through my vendor page and the RCBS Pro-Melt lists at over $350, and Lee lists their Pro 4-20 at less than $75.00.

Hmmm . . . I guess you wouldn't be too interested in the Magma Master pot ($575.00) with the new electronic controller ($200.00, keeps temp at + or - 2 degrees) @ $775.00 then.

For some people casting bullets is completely and totally about saving money and NOTHING else matters, the cheaper it is the better it is. Nothing wrong with that if it's your thing but for others a high quality tool is far more important.

I'm hardly rich, MOST of the things in my loading room are things that I had to save up for. Many of these things came at the expense of getting something else, a new gun as an example. I get tremendous enjoyment from the tools in my loading room that I have accumulated over the past few decades. None of these tools do I expect to have to keep replacing over and over again because I bought as cheap as I could.

It's one of the great things about casting/loading/shooting. To each their own and no one is wrong if they are happy with the way they are doing it.

Rick

[Dale53]

There is NO doubt that the Lee 4-20 is the best buy out there. If money is tight, then it's a no brainer.

However, having said that, I have two RCBS's. The first was bought wholesale when there was only Lyman and RCBS. The second happened at an Estate sale (got the pot full of good bullet metal for a VERY nice price).

The RCBS' have been FINE pots. I did have to weight the operating arm to stop dripping (simply bought a small, cheap Chinese vise grip and clamped it on the operating arm - problem solved). RCBS has an excellent record servicing older pots. That trumps the other "pretenders" such as Lyman looking long term.

My casting habits may be different than yours. I typically cast year 'round and one or two pot fulls at a time - I just do it rather often.

FWIW
Dale53

[Doby45]

Prior to sinking money into a much more expensive pot, I would look at sinking about $75 into a nice PID to control your current pot. That is my next "investment" and I will simply use that on my perfectly fine Lee 4-20. You could actually build a PID and buy ANOTHER Lee 4-20 for nothing but feeding your PIDed pot with some premelted lead. $150 total investment, 40lbs worth of PID controlled alloy, I see no downside.

[cbrick]

There is NO doubt that the Lee 4-20 is the best buy out there. Dale53

Really? I would say there is a lot of doubt on that point.

If your ONLY criteria is that it's the cheapest you MAY be right. Cheapest is far from the only criteria, many other things to consider beyond how chinsey something can be made.

I would also say that you agree with me. If you didn't why are you buying Miha molds and not Lee molds exclusively? They are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum. If cheapest is the only criteria to consider how many Lee molds could you buy for the price of one Miha mold? Price is of course one consideration but hardly the only one and for many people it's far from the most important one. That leaves enormous doubt that Lee is the "best buy".

There can be absolutely no doubt that a bicycle WILL GET YOU THERE, so why do you own an automobile?

Rick

[hornady]

Thanks guys, I think from what I am hearing, for my budget, I am unable to take the Magma hit, but I could do the RCBS, some very good points have been made, I am not new too casting, I have used lee pots for many years, and think this is the best time too up grade. I do not want anyone to think I am snubbing his or her choice, I just think its time for a better set up, and at this time that just happens to be the RCBS, but as said you do the best you can with what you can afford at the time.

[buck1]

The rcbs i have has served me well. I would call it the standard go to pot for most dedicated casters.Theres better out there but my calipers and scale dont think I need them.
I also have LEE, Lyman, and a old Saeco. All work well and make great boolits with a thermometer and a watchfull eye and operating the pot so to speek. RCBS has a GREAT warranty, and they honor it after its up as well.

[cbrick]

I am unable to take the Magma hit, but I could do the RCBS, I have used lee pots for many years, and think this is the best time too up grade. I do not want anyone to think I am snubbing his or her choice, I just think its time for a better set up, and at this time that just happens to be the RCBS

I don't feel at all snubbed. You made a wise choice for you, your budget and your needs. I seriously doubt you will regret it, i've used an RCBS pot for about 25 years and it's still running strong, still doesn't drip. :rolleyes:

My only point is so many people post here that Lee is the only choice and price is the one and only criteria, in which case Lee would be the only product on the market. Quality well made tools wouldn't even be made, would be no need.

Rick

[Cowboy T]

That's really strange, because I also have a Lee Pro 4-20, and it drips a little, but not nearly enough to be bothersome. This is after tens of thousands of boolits cast from the thing, and so far, it's been a good performer. But that's my experience. You've got to be comfortable with your gear, and if RCBS or Magma or whatever does the trick, that's the direction you've got to go.

BTW, the reason I bought an (admittedly excellent) MiHec mould is because Lee doesn't make hollowpoint moulds, and Miha does. If Lee also did, especially in their 6-cavity models, I'd defintely buy one.

[casterofboolits]

I started out with Lee pots and moulds, graduated to a Lyman pot and moulds, the Lyman pot died after a couple years and I ended up with RCBS ten kilo pots and never looked back.

If anything happens to the pot, RCBS will refurbish it to the latest version for free. I now have three of the RCBS pots, but one was free.

This of course took almost four decades.

[94Doug]

Call RCBS. They do (sometimes) have seconds or slightly damaged units for sale at a reduced price, I've heard in the $200-250 range. Who knows, you might get lucky.

Doug

[mdi]

The Lee pot I own melts lead, keeps a relative stable temp., doesn't drip very much, and I've cast a few thousand bullets with it. I got all this for less than $75.00, and not being a tool snob, why would I spend $350.00 for something that will do no better? My only criteria is a tool that does the intended job, which my Lee pot does.

I was a heavy equipmechanic for a large west coast city and saw "tool snobbery" at it's finest. Some mechanics would only buy/use certain tools because of the name on them or their color, or what their favorite NASCAR pit crew used; "If it ain't Snap-on (or Mac or Matco or Williams, etc) it ain't no good". A $50.00 combo wrench doesn't have better ergonomics nor tightens bolts any easier than a $20.00 wrench. I didn't/don't buy tools for the name on them but how well they do the job...

[old turtle]

I agree with mdi. I have a Lee pot and I have also cast thousands of boolits with it. I cast using wheel weights, linotype, lead and my mixture of 2 to 1 ww and linotype. MDI, a friend of mine who is a diesel mechanic said the the more expensive tools (Proto) the less he knows

[Dan Cash]

I use a $35.00 propane double burner and a pair of $10 cast iron pots and a $15 RCBS dipper. They don't leak and hold about 40# of metal when full. I cast lots of big bullets. Had a Lee 20# drip-o-matic and plugged the hole with a sheet rock screw and bought the dipper. Sold the pot to a forum member for $20 delivered and made him happy.

It is not the name on the tool but the work it produces and for me, Lee is largely a waste of time and money..

[Doby45]

Much like the whole Dillon is more gooder than everything in the world debate. I think mdi was simply saying they both do the same thing and for his intended use there has been no need to spend $350 on a product when he can spend $75 and get a product that does the same thing. You on the other hand appear to be comparing the difference with the RCBS to be the difference between a Bobcat and a strip mining earth mover. I am one who believes in spending money properly; buy the best you can afford. I cannot see what a RCBS pot will do that a Lee pot does not do. Maybe I am missing something here, does it pour the boolits for me or does it simply melt lead? Because I use a Lee pot does that also make me a mindless follower?

[Dale53]

Let's play nice, folks. This is about to get personal. We are bigger than that.

Dale53

[Cowboy T]

How about this: buy whatever pot works for you and your situation. For me, that happens to be a Lee Pro 4-20. For others, that may be a Lyman or RCBS. For yet others, that means a Dutch Oven, a turkey fryer, and a ladle.

[RP]

Well I put it this way I have lee pot and a old lyman I like my lyman over the lees for these reasons it melts faster it reheats faster and it dont drip alot . But for the money a lee fits in nicely slower but will work.

[mold maker]

If all the LEE bashers will box up their El Cheapo LEE pots and send them to me, I'll keep them from being embarrassed when visited by other elitist casters.
I've got LEE, Lyman, Seaco, and Wang. They all melt lead, each bottom pour pot has leaked, and I still use every one of them. In cool weather the spout on the Lyman freezes, but not the LEE. My little LEE is used to premelt and refill the production pot.
I say use what ya have. It aint the name on the pot that kills the rabbit.

[Recluse]

My next pot will be an RCBS, although Rick makes a strong case for the Magma.

I have no regrets about the Lee Pro-4 20 whatsoever, and I agree with Dale that for the price, it's the best buy out there.

Lot of folks would not be into casting or reloading were it not for Lee.

Maybe I got lucky, but my Lee holds a fairly constant temp (but not within 2 degrees), but there are some construction issues about it I'm not crazy about. I've poured with an RCBS before and they leaked, too. However, there was no comparison when it came to the quality.

Likewise, there was no comparison over the economics.

Molds? I buy molds based on the boolit design I'm seeking rather than the brand or name on the mold. To that end, I actually have quite a few Lee 2-cavity molds as I really do like their boolit designs.

I'm pretty easy on whatever equipment I own for whatever purposes. I don't bang my guitars around, I take immaculate care of my cameras, the airplane and boat get religious preventive maintenance as do the cars, etc.

Given how I use mechanics tools, Craftsman does me just as good as Snap-On as I am not a professional mechanic and do not use the tools every day, or even every week.

I DO cast and reload quite often, and to that end, the Lee equipment has done well, but again, there are a few things with the Lee pot that are beginning to annoy me enough to fork over the price for a new RCBS.

But that's just me. :)

:coffee:

[Dale53]

Recluse;
Well said!

Dale53

[lwknight]

Unless I somehow get to be independently wealthy , I will just tolerate my 2 drip-O-matics.
Actually one of em is just a melter with the dripper plugged.

I would like to have a nicer pot. The old Lee pots had a good thing going then they changed to a squirrelly pouring valve. Also my old 1980s model heats up and melts faster than the new ones.

I know from all the posts about scrounging and mining lead that most of us are just flat cheap. Thats why we started casting our own in the first place. Then we learn about casting our own can be rewarding and even produce higher quality custom alloyed boolits.


I really cannot see a reason to cut loose an extra $300.00 for a RCBS or $450.00 more for a 40 pound magma unless I plan to go pro in casting. If you do go pro then anything that helps productivity of just makes the day go better is worth a chunk of change.
I just can't see where a part time hobby caster would benefit all that much from higher quality and nicer melters that cost 4 to 6 times more money unless money is just not an issue.

I have some Snap-on tools that I really like and think are worth more money but , not all their tools are worth paying more for just a name. Often the cheap junk works just as good as the high dollar stuff for its intended use.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
My present routine is to buy a Lee Pot on sale or yard sale or from a disgruntled user. Lap the pore spout and add four flattened in a vice .73 RB to the handle. No more drips and they work as well as the hunderd dollar pots.

[montana_charlie]

When this thread started, I thought it might provide a thorough comparison between the current RCBS and Lyman pots. I'm not looking to change, myself, but I have wondered which of those fairly expensive units is most well-liked by casters.

Alas, the comparison did not occur, and the o/p has made his decision to go with RCBS.
So, I will just mention that, if you look under the 'Specials' tab on the Lyman site, you'll find some very nice price reductions on remanufactured pots.

You have your choice of the 'dipper' style...or the kind you flush.

CM

(And cbrick...that word is drivel...)

[Jon K]

RCBS vs Lyman....

I have Both RCBS Pro Melt & Lyman Mag-20
Not really a good comparison, as they are both different.
Like Chevy & Ford they are different, and I guess it is just personal choice, or which features you are most comfotable using.

RCBS...pot sits higher.
RCBS...is easier to control the flow.

Lyman...mould guide(rest) is more position regimented.
Only allows mould to fit @90*, RCBS can be @any angle.
Lyman...has a pad to rest & pre-heat mould.
Lyman...has a spring cushoned stop under the plunger,
which allows the pot to drip.

I prefer the RCBS, mostly cause I've been using it longer, and it seems like the temp control on the RCBS is a bit more constant.

That what you're looking for Charlie?

For ladle pouring...WAAGE!!!

[Springfield]

OK, I cast more than most as I have a small bullet business. That being said, I currently have 2 LEE's, one RCBS and One Magma 40 lbs. The LEE's are just OK if you plan on casting more than one pot full in a session. The temperature control, if you don't know already, is in the little tower NEXT to the pot, so needless to say it isn't very responsive. If you are only doing a couple pounds worth of bullets, it is fine. If you want to do a big batch than plan on the pot freezing up when you add more than a couple pounds worth of lead. This is especially bad if you are casting large bullets, it just won't keep up. And near as I can measure their 20 lb pot reallly only holds about 17 lbs unless you fill it to the rim. And yes, it does tend drip after awhile as you get more impurities in the pot. Cleaning helps, but who wants to drain the pot and take the spigot apart if they don't have to?
The RCBS is better at holding a temp as the sensor is on the pot. Mine also holds 22 lbs easily. To help with the drips,which mine does sometimes but not often, I just put a spring under the lever adjusting knob so it pushes on the lever arm. It also seems to heat up a bit faster, probably due to the heating element wrapping around the pot in 2 places compared to the LEE single wrap. Not that I use it but the temp knob actually relates to some real life temp, not just a 1-10 knob. But I always use a separate temp guage in the lead anyway. When I went to the RCBS from the LEE I thoght I had the best lead pot made. Then I bought the Magma.
To be fair, it really is comparing apples to oranges with the Magma. For one thing, it is a 1500 watt pot versus the others at 6-700. Also, it holds 40 lbs. So you can pretty much just keep dumping in ingots and the pot will never freeze up. I can use 2 LEE 6 cavs and cast 1400 200 grain bullets an hour for as long as I can take it, about 3 hours max for me, and the pot never stops working. The temp guage is very consistant, and a PID guage can be bought, but I haven't, 'cause I'm cheap! These are tools for me, not toys, and my funds are limited. Theother thing about the Magma that doesn't get mentioned much is the fact that it can be had with a 2 pour spout option. On the bottom of the Magma there is a removable piece, and it can have one hole or two. So if you have a 2,4 or 6 cavity mould you can pour 2 cavities at a time. Pretty cool, and it does speed things up. If you need to use a single cavity mould the piece comes off with 2 allen screws, very easy. And this is also how you clean the spigot in hopefully rare occasion you get some debris in the mix. Take off 2 screws, clean the spigot and put it back on. This can even be done when the pot is hot as the spigot rod is still plugging the main hole above, which never seems to plug up. And the spigot rod has a decent strength spring on it so the pot never drips. Yes, I lived with the LEE dripping, and usually it wasn't a big deal, but sometimes it would splatter and get me on the hand. Annoying, to say the least. I used to be a professional mechanic also, and some of my tools are Snap-on, some are Craftsman, MAC, or some unknown brand. I still use tools I bought 30 years ago. I like stuff that works and lasts. I really hate the current trend to have stuff made cheap in China, 'cause it seems every one of them I buy breaks. So I'd rather buy something good now and use the snot out of it forever. Cost is NOT everything.

[cbrick]

I used to be a professional mechanic also, and some of my tools are Snap-on, some are Craftsman, MAC, or some unknown brand. I still use tools I bought 30 years ago. I like stuff that works and lasts. I really hate the current trend to have stuff made cheap in China, 'cause it seems every one of them I buy breaks. So I'd rather buy something good now and use the snot out of it forever. Cost is NOT everything.

Very well said and exactly the point I have been trying to make.

Back when I was a grease monkey most of my tool purchases were Craftsman for the simple reason they were 25% the cost of Snap-On with EXACTLY the same warranty. Plus, if I did have a problem with one of them I could simply stop at Sears on the way home and not wait for a week for the Snap-On guy to show up. Still have my tools, most are Craftsman with some Snap-On, Mac and a few Proto etc. As your resident tool snob I am extremely pleased to say that there is not a tool in my roll away that says Japan, India or China on it. 100% of them are 100% American made.

Cost is of course a consideration and to some it's the only consideration. If they are happy with that fine and dandy but there are many other considerations.

I'm with Springfield 100%, I'd rather buy something good now and use the snot out of it forever. Cost is NOT everything.

Rick

[montana_charlie]

That what you're looking for Charlie?
The bit about temperature control falls in with what I had in mind, even though you don't seem real definite about RCBS being better in that area.

Anything having to do with quickness of heating and accuracy of temp control would speak to the operational usefulness of the pot. Remarks concerning structural quality and functional longevity would cover long term value.

I would assume that, within a single brand, pots for dippers and pots with drain holes would share those qualities mentioned above. After those, the ergonomic considerations in your earlier post would come into focus.

Being a dipper, myself, I would only pay attention to the fundamentals, and leave the ergonomics to those who need them. But, again being a dipper, I am not looking to change...because I have the Waage.

CM

[waksupi]

You may notice a few posts are missing from this thread. If you read the terms of service, staff can remove posts at any time when they are getting into personal attacks. I would strongly suggest if one or more of your posts are missing, that you take a hint.

[EDK]

In 40+ years, I used a SAECO dipper pot and a LYMAN bottom pour, both 20 pounders. I bought a LEE Magnum Melter for about $50 at GRAFS and have cranked the h*** out of it since I got it two or three years ago...but my H&G ladle needs replacement.

Everyone has good reasons to praise his choices. I like inexpensive and easy to work with. AND if this pot shoots craps, I'll give it away/trash it and buy another just like it...probably be up to $60 then.

Moulds is a whole different ball game. NOE, MI-HEC and OLD WEST sure make some nice ones...got some older LYMANs and a couple of H&Gs that ain't bad plus some LEE group buys from here.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have two Lee 4-20's. One is at least 17 years old and the other about 3. I fill both pots with ingots and keep an eye on them whilst they heat up.

It is not fun to find that a valve leaked molton lead all over the base and now you have a piece of alloy sculpture that goes from the valve to the base and then onto the table and then the floor and it is all stuck together. Hence I keep a sharp eye on my pots.

I place the older pot on a shelf about 24 inches above the lower pot. I keep adding ingots to the upper pot and run the properly heated to temp alloy from that pot via a piece of channel steel to the lower pot.

The lower pot is my casting pot and the only time it sees a solid ingot is when I first start my casting session. Otherwise I keep the lower pot filled to various levels depending on the size of the boolits I am casting. Smaller boolits need a low speed flow of alloy and I keep the level low...seldom above halfway filled to regulate the flow on those tiny .22's and itsy bitsy pistol rounds like for my 327 Federal Magnum revolter. On the bigger boolits I keep the levels a mite higher like one third to two thirds full...On the biggest boolits I need a faster flow and I keep the pot full or down to maybe 2/3 full.

This allows me to control the pressure of the alloy flowing through the spout a mite more than just adjusting the valve with the lousy screw Lee designed. I also keep a pair of chinese el cheapo vice grips attached to the top of the operating rod to prevent the drips.

Using two pots and properly lee mented Lee six bangers or Mihec's wonderful new 6 cavity molds I can really get to producing some quality boolits in a rapid fashion whilst seating at my kitchen table, listening to the radio and maybe having a friend visit to learn about casting boolits.

I started out with Lee cuz it was all I could afford at the time. I know there are better pots available but mine have yet to give up the ghost and I plan to wear them out before I replace either of them.

If I suddenly have a lot of money I plan to get a nice Ruger .44 Special revolter before I spend some major bucks on a RCBS or Magma pot.

Although I enjoy all aspects of the sport including casting, smelting, reloading and shooting maybe the shooting part is the most fun since I am usually with a few buddies and we have a great time ribbing each other and swapping lies. I can't do that with just Sgt. Rambo (dog) keeping me company. His sense of humor is missing and he just dosen't understand too much English as he is a Mexican dog.

I admit to buying a chinese el cheapo motorcycle jack but the price is just too good to turn down and I needed a jack to change the oil and lube the chain etc. An American jack would have been 3 times the price and it will still languish in the back yard in the sun and rain and although it may last longer I may not.

I am 67 now and I figure my days of riding a motorcycle have a fast approaching sunset as my joints are more painful and I find it more difficult to fork the saddle. When should I quit? 75? 80? I guess I will know when the joy of riding the British Iron is overcome by the pain I suffer because of the ride.

Que sera, sera.

[Fixxah]

Next to the Pro-Melt, the Mag20 is economical. Used both and sold the Mag20 for short money. There are deals out there, it's just finding them when the time is right that's the issue.

[dsmjon]

A $50.00 combo wrench doesn't have better ergonomics nor tightens bolts any easier than a $20.00 wrench. I didn't/don't buy tools for the name on them but how well they do the job...

BUT... that $80 Flank drive wrench, while using the OPEN end will remove nuts & bolts that a Crapsman SOCKET would otherwise have rounded off. There are good tools, and GREAT tools. Most of the time, the good tools will suffice and using the great tool will have no noticeable effect. Then there is the few times that the good tools will just cause you wasted time, effort, and heartache. That is where the great tools shine, and that 800% higher cost will have been a mere pittance when the job is done without having to resort to using the bluetip wrench to fix what the good tool screwed up.

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, I digress. :)

[mdi]

BUT... that $80 Flank drive wrench, while using the OPEN end will remove nuts & bolts that a Crapsman SOCKET would otherwise have rounded off. There are good tools, and GREAT tools. Most of the time, the good tools will suffice and using the great tool will have no noticeable effect. Then there is the few times that the good tools will just cause you wasted time, effort, and heartache. That is where the great tools shine, and that 800% higher cost will have been a mere pittance when the job is done without having to resort to using the bluetip wrench to fix what the good tool screwed up.

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, I digress. :)
Yep, you're right. When I needed a Flank Drive wrench, I would not hesitate to jump on Mr. Snap-on's truck and get one. He stopped by the shop every Thursday. I usually buy tools for how well they do the job, pretty much the only criteria...

[Shooter6br]

I have two Lee's. A dip pot ( From my Dad 30 years old) and a Production pot 10 lbs. I would like the 20 lbs model which has a better valve. My bottom pour is my Lee drip o matic.Still works but drips no matter what you try

[recycledelectrons]

I have used a couple of Lee 4-20 pots (my original is still working, but I have reccomended them and set them up for friends.) I also have a 10# Saeco pot. I've even tried cast iron pots and ladle casting.

The Lee and the Saeco both drip the same. 90% of dripping in a lack of expertise on the part of the user.

My Saeco gets MUCH hotter. That alone would be enough reason to buy a Saeco for some alloys.

The Saeco's ergonomics are much worse than the Lee's. It took me 3 tries to learn how to pour form the Saeco, after casting regularly for more than a decade!

I have not tried the other kinds of melting pots.