Primers & Lube Question

[Rusty W]

I have a couple Ruger Single Sixes in 32 H&R mag. One in particular is giving me fits. It's a Baby Vaq. and the fixed sights maybe some of the problem. I'm unable to find a load it will shoot accurate. I'm using a Lee TL SWC 90gr boolit and the 313640 from NOE. 2.5gr of Trailboss shoots about 3" low but is centered. 7.5gr of 2400 is about the same but a little tighter groups but about 2"low and 2" to the left. All other combinations I've tried is more of a pattern than a group. I've tried no less than 15 different powders and only the 2 mentioned will shoot somewhat accurate. The other Single Six is a Birdshead Vaq. and it will eat just about anything I throw at it accurately. Some better than others, like 4gr of Herco and 10.5gr of H110, or 4gr of 231. It don't seem to care, it'll shoot. I'm thinking there's a gun problem and here's some pic's of the primers. I don't know what's causing what seems to be a pierced primer but wanted to get others opinions. Also I lube the 313640 with Lars 2500+ and Commercial Red. The 2500+ leaves a small amount of lube on the case mouth after the shot, the CR doesn't. Both seem to work well though. There's a lube star at the end of the muzzle and no leading. I was just wondering about the lube on the case mouth.
The picture in hand is a load of 7gr of #9 with the 313640 HP, but it does the same no matter the powder charge or type, three blackened primers, 3 normal primers. So what could cause this? I've used CCI, Wolf, & Remington small pistol primers, all do the same.

[runfiverun]

for the accuracy issue.
i'd look at your revolvers dimensions.
the cylinder throats first.
you can file the front sight a bit to get the load up to point of aim.

the primer thing could just be a strong spring, or the rims of your brass are a bit thicker than the gun likes.
my 30-carbine revolver will do the same thing to pistol primers, i'd attributed that to using rimmed brass and soft primer cups in it.[32-20 brass]
untill i tried rifle primers and it done it to a few of them also.

[Dale53]

Perforated primers suggest a "too long" firing pin or a rough firing pin. I would call Ruger, and see if they'll send you a mailing label to return the handgun. The loads you mention should be within normal limits.

Keep in mind, that companies do NOT take kindly to handloads... You definitely have a problem and it NEEDS to be addressed.

Dale53

[looseprojectile]

If'n twer me small rifle primers would probably solve the problem.
On the other hand I would suspect the firing pin is too sharp. Doesn't look like it in the photos. Maybe too much protrusion. Could be that the chamber mouths are smaller in the chambers that pop the primers causing higher pressures.
Try some H110. Unique and Blue dot are good also.
Those small frame guns aren't target guns but they should do better than that.
I would look into chamber alignment and forcing cone too.

Life is good

[canyon-ghost]

I have an NEF 32 mag that I have to use a .314 sizing die for, it doesn't like factory or store ammo at all.
1.9 grains of Bullseye will go 100 yards
1.4 grains of Bullseys shows the best group at 50 yards.

A light crimp helps, too much and you get pressure back.

[mdi]

Have you tried factory ammo to see if the problem is ammo related? If there are no pierced primers with factory, mebbe the gun is at fault...

[Larry Gibson]

Rusty

+1 on trying factory ammo to test for accuracy and pierced primers. The lead SWCs shoot very well in my Ruger SS (original run).

Also, have you tried 3 gr of Bullseye under that 90 gr Lee SWC? That is my most often used load and is very accurate in my revolver and TC Barrel. It equals the factory lead SWC load right at 1020 fps.

Larry Gibson

[Rusty W]

I haven't tried factory loads. In fact I haven't purchased factory loaded ammo, well besides 22lr in over 10 years. I may try a few just to sort out the problem. The 32mag in a factory load is as hard to find around here as Waksupi's lube grooves. There are a few places that have 32 long but they're not cheap. I'm spoiled to handloading I guess.

I looked at the firing pin and ran my finger across it and noticed a very small burr and a small vertical groove in the center, just barely enough to catch a finger nail on. I may take some 320grit sandpaper and try to smooth it out. I compared it to my other 32 & the pin on it is smooth with no groove. It's strange how it only affects 3 cartridges and not all 6.

Another thing I'm trying to figure out is what powder measure will dispense low charges of powder. I have a RCBS Uniflow, Hornady LNL, Lee Pro, Micro disc, & adjustable charge bar. All want to bridge and not dump. I've tried Unique, BE, Herco, 231, Red Dot, Silhouette, Clays, TB, Universal, Powerpistol, HS6, LilGun, H110, 2400, AA5, AA7, AA9, PB. Powders I haven't tried are Bluedot, 800X, IMR 7625. The ball powders like HS6, 2400, H110 all do well but the flake powders are a pain in my elbow. I'm using a Lee dipper and weighing each charge, that gets old after a while especially seeing that LNLAP just sitting there ready to go but no fuel to feed it.

[MtGun44]

Slug the cylinder throats after marking the cylinder with a yellow crayon or similar non
permanent marking and firing so you know which particular cylinders are having the problem.
If the same three do it consistently, you have some different dimensions. I think you will find
too tight throats on 3 of them. Another possibility is too tight chambers. Certainly a 'too
sharp' firing pin could be contributing, but apparently it requires something else since
it does not puncture all the primers. Too high pressure AND a nonstd firing pin tip (length
or shape) could be the situation.

Bill

[Dale53]

Rusty W;
I often use the Lee Pro Auto Disc for light pistol charges. I have dispensed thousands of 1.8 grs of Bullseye for S&W Long cases in my .32's without issue.

Dale53

[Bret4207]

If you have the dippers you have your answer. All it takes is developing a consistent pattern to your dipping and striking the excess with something like a business card. You other option is to use your powder with a knocker of some sort like on the Lyman 55. Throw the handle and tap it with a light wrench or screwdriver. Or do like a guy in the Rifleman about 40 years back and attach an electric razor to the measure. Something that vibrates will keep the powder flowing.

On the Ruger- have you checked the mechanicals? Muzzle crown, forcing cone, cylinder throats- all smooth, and of proper shape and size? Is the barrel free of boogers and tears and what not? I've seen a couple Rugers over the years with barrels that looked like something you'd find draining a toilet.

[NHlever]

The chambers on your first run Ruger were cut 3 at a time with a multiple spindle head. Three are processed, and then the cylinder is indexed, and the other three are cut. That might explain why your issues are confined to three chambers. Have you checked to make sure that the cases are all seated firmly on the cylinder? It's possible that three chambers are a bit shallow.

[beagle]

On the pierced primers. Check or have your gunsmith remove and check the firing pin. I had a .357 Blackhawk that gave the same indications even with .38 Special loads and a few minutes with a dremel by my smith fixed it right up. He told me that many Rugers came with rough firing pins./beagle

[Rusty W]

I had a chance to look more into the problem with the perfd primers. I slugged the cylinder and all chambers measure .3135. I hand sanded the firing pin with 320 grit sand paper until the groove was gone. I grabbed a few rounds to test and ta da...No more blackened primers.

Now onto the load that will shoot. Dale53, what disk do you use with the BE load? I purchased a razor yesterday that vibrates. I seen somewhere a guy attached it to his hopper to stop bridgeing, I'm gonna try it & see if it'll work. I thought I may have the hopper on wrong so I tried it both ways and can't tell much difference where the holes line up. Is there a front & back on a Lee Pro Auto?

[Dale53]

RustyW;
I can't tell you from here (I am not at my reloading bench). However, I just look at the chart and use the disk suggested (after carefully weighing the results, of course).

FWIW
Dale53

[runfiverun]

for a fast [clays -reddot] powder aa#2 will work fine, it's a ball [kinda] powder.
aa#5 is medium like unique and aa#9 is slower like 2400

[fourarmed]

Glad you solved the primer problem. My experience with 4227 in the .32 H&R is that it needs to be loaded pretty close to maximum to give tight groups. I use it in my single shot pistol with the Lyman 3118 (311008) and it does very well. A heavier bullet would also make it shoot higher.