Expansion test Pics/ R.D.TLC432-285-RF/C358-180-RF

[steveb]

I posted this over on www.leverguns.com and thought I would share here.

I have been casting and loading up the Ranch Dog TLC432-285-RF for my Rossi 92 chambered in 44Mag and also the C358-180-RF for my other Rossi chambered in 357Mag. Im using straight air cooled WW but the only thing I have shot with them is mainly paper(besides a few plastic water filled jugs and my old digital camera http://leverguns.sixgunner.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21713 ). With the possibility of being able to hunt with my Rossi next year here in Indiana I wanted to see how these expand and hold up with air cooled WW.I used two old bags of fertilizer I had lying around and they went through one bag and just dimpled the other.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/BagOfertilizer.jpg

The Ranch Dog TLC432-285 weighs around 276 grains without the check and lube and the average velocity is 1470. The recovered cast bullets weight on average was 204 grains and only one recovered had the gas check still attatched on it.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/RanchDogexpansionpics.jpg

The C358-180-RF weighs around 182 grains lubed with Felix lube and the recovered cast bullets weighed on average of 165 grains.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/C358-180-RFexpansionpics.jpg

Here is some still shots from the water jugs exploding using the Ranch Dog TLC432-285-RF.:Fire:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/GrabbedFrame3.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/GrabbedFrame2.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/GrabbedFrame1.jpg

And here a link to the video of shooting the jugs and my digital camera that laid down on me( I got it in the end though!:twisted: )
http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/?action=view&current=44Mag.flv

[Ranch Dog]

Cool stuff Steve... I'm on dial up right now but will check out the links when I get to another location...

[StarMetal]

Steve,

Good test and good pictures. Only thing I can say is my aircooled WW's seem to expand more with less shearing. Might be that the composition of ours is different is all.

Joe

[steveb]

Ranch Dog, I got just the action and its only like a 3 sec video for all the folks on dialup.(like myself:( )

Joe, those Ranch Dogs shed alot more weight than the 180 grainers. Why would that be? Composition? Diameter?

[Ranch Dog]

Joe, those Ranch Dogs shed alot more weight than the 180 grainers. Why would that be? Composition? Diameter?

I wonder why that would be? Which boolit took out the camera?

My ISDN pipeline took a lightning strike last Sunday so I'm stuck with dial up until the new box arrives.

[jeff223]

Steve how are those boolits shooting for you accuracy wise?

the RANCH DOG boolits i recovered at 100yds that i shot from my 445 supermag had alittle more lead left on them.im thinking the RANCH DOGS and those nice 180gr 35cal boolits are going to knock the socks off the deer in my area this year.on the Michigan firearm opener i will have the 445 supermag barrel on my tender frame and after that it will be setup with a 357max barrel.

great pictureshttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[44man]

It is the fertilizer that is doing the shearing, like shooting into sand. More fun would be to line up a bunch of gallon jugs of water to catch the boolit.
Those are great still shots and hard to get. How did you time them?

[steveb]

I wonder why that would be? Which boolit took out the camera?

My ISDN pipeline took a lightning strike last Sunday so I'm stuck with dial up until the new box arrives.

Ranch Dog, your bullets took out the camera but I never recovered any from the camera slaying. All bullets recovered were from the bag of fertilizer. I did shoot the 44 first and the bag was tighter and more compacted now that I think about it. After 5 shots of those Ranch Dogs some of that fertilizer was plain turned into dust. I do remember the bag not being as tight and full when testing the C358-180-RF. Maybe thats why?



Steve how are those boolits shooting for you accuracy wise?

Jeff, what did you recover those bullets from at 100 yards? I was about 20 yards away from the bag. I'm getting good accuacy(for me anyway) using WC820(n) at 50 yards. I still need to see what it does at 100 though. Heres a target at 50 yards with the Ranch Dogs.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a199/steveb3006/TLC432-285-RF50yard.jpg


44Man, thank you. The still shots are easy to get. When I capture the digital video and run it through the video editing software I take it frame by frame then just do a picture grab.

[steveb]

Heres some more still shots.
:Fire:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/stillshotseq2.jpg
:Fire:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/stillshotssequence.jpg
:Fire:

[jeff223]

COOL pictures Steve

i recovered a hand full of the RANCH DOGS out of the bank,dirt and sand,at 100yds just so i could see how they looked.im would say mine were about 90%.the boolits i shot were from a 14inch 445 supermag Contender but i have no clue as to the fps with these boolits.i know with a 240gr Remington or a 240gr Hornady XTP this 445sm will break 2000fps.these big Ranch Dog boolits are going much slower im sure but they are going to be some big thumpers on game just like RANCH DOG says they are

[MT Gianni]

Nice Pic's.I see 1470 average velocity on Ranch Dogs, What about the 358's? Thanks, Gianni.

[cast-n-blast]

Great pics Steve. I think 44man hit the nail on the head as to why the 44RD bullets shed more weight than the .35's. With the fertilizer acting as a shearing test median, the .44, with greater surface area, will shed more weight, than the .35. Kinda like clipping a fat sheep and a skinny one. The fat sheep will yield more wool than the skinny one, if you clip 2" off both sheep. Keep those great pic's comming as I'm sure everyone enjoys them as much as I do.

[44man]

The dumbest thing I ever did was to shoot a 5 gallon can of water at 50 yd's with a 30-06 using a hot loaded 110 gr bullet. The can went 30 feet into the air and a piece of the can wizzed past my head at supersonic speed.
Thank god for plastic jugs!

[357maximum]

The dumbest thing I ever did was to shoot a 5 gallon can of water at 50 yd's with a 30-06 using a hot loaded 110 gr bullet. The can went 30 feet into the air and a piece of the can wizzed past my head at supersonic speed.
Thank god for plastic jugs!

I shot a block of ice once, from inside a 48 qt cooler left outside in the winter with a .280AI once...same effect...wizzing chunks of ice everywhere...I should have backed up a lil further me thinks. That could have hurt...was a pretty neat sight though.
Michael

[StarMetal]

Me and my best friend shot a bowling ball in his basement when we were 16 with his Model 94 in 32 Special. He put it so the coal bin was the backstop and we got on the other end of the basement, which wasn't very far. The ball exploded into hundreds of little pieces some of which knocked down to furnace ducts and pelting us. I said "That wasn't a very bright idea Carl", having not known better myself.

Joe

[44man]

Yup, many of us learned from experience and lived to tell about it. Ever see how hard it is to tell younger guys not to do something?

[StarMetal]

44man,

Our parents told us the same thing. You know how we were when we were teenagers, we thought we were invinceable. I have a 16 yr old home now and he drives both me and his mom nuts. Amazing how they have an answer for everything. I told him he should be President and solve all this country's problems.

Now I did listen to my Dad on alot of stuff. Some important ones too, like he preached to me not to smoke, which I don't, he told me not to become an alcoholic, which I'm not, he told me to becareful of women, not in a sense that they are bad, which they are not, but knowing how a young man's hormones are out of control, to not just go crazy over them. Well that one I kinda messed up on some.

Our parents did alot of the crazy stuff we've and they are just trying to protect us like we do to our children.

Geez, was I that hard headed as a teeny bopper? Yup

Joe

[steveb]

Nice Pic's.I see 1470 average velocity on Ranch Dogs, What about the 358's? Thanks, Gianni.

Thanks! I thought I ran them through the chrony but cant find that data anywhere, but I'm using 11.4 grains of WC820(n) and guessing around 1500 fps.

[montana_charlie]

Last week, for the first time, I shot at something other than paper with my .45-90.

I put a water-filled gallon milk jug beside my hundred yard target stand, and used a 'fouler' to see what happens. Without a filmstrip recording I don't know if was 'spectaculer', but the jug simply fell over on it's side. On examination, I could see where the water had splashed the ground behind it, and the jug was split from shoulder to bottom on the back side, with some other 'wounds' here and there. The cap was about thirty feet downwind, in a very light breeze.

Where I shoot these hundred yard tests, it is over pretty flat ground with no high backstop. Bullet drop carries the slugs down into a small coulee about 75 yards behind the target, so they hit the opposite bank about 6 feet below the top.

But, on some shots, I could hear riccochets whining off into the distance...so I checked the flat ground behind the target. There is a little 'ridge' (left from digging in a new electric cable last fall) that the lower shots were just catching. Well, I begged an old swather tire from the local shop, and layed it flat between the target and the scar on the 'ridge'.
I thought, at that range, the tire might stop the bullets so I could look at 'em.

Nope. The front of the tire shows the same group seen on the target (50 yards away), and the same pattern appears on the back tread...with no sign of tumbling. With a couple of big-ish rocks at the side/rear to steady the tire, it never even flinches.
These are 560 grain bullets...still doing about 1100 fps, at that range.

But one bullet, a flyer that went a bit high, entered the tire at the top edge of the tread. It plowed along through the full 'width' of the sidewall, including the steel belts. Eight inches of steel mesh split the bullet in half lengthways, and left it poking out, right at the bead. Funny how bullets act, sometimes...

Guess I need to shovel some sand into the tire to be able to collect the lead.
CM

[Bass Ackward]

Geez, was I that hard headed as a teeny bopper? Yup

Joe

Joe,

And you think you have changed? :grin:

[Bass Ackward]

ACWW might shed some lead weight, but who should care? Them are some nice recovered bullets and why I like softer stuff for hunting regardless of caliber.

No matter how much weight or velocity you lose, the nose recreates itself to look like itself. Hard lead doesn't do that if it break up.

[Ranch Dog]

Here is a picture of some boolits I've recovered from game animals. One is from a large hog, a mule deer, and a nilgai. The alloy is 1/1 linotype/WW and water quenched.

[steveb]

Cool! Nice pic Michael. Lets keep this rollin. Anyone else got any picts of recovered bullets to share. I cant wait to drop a deer with these!:castmine:

[StarMetal]

Joe,

And you think you have changed? :grin:

John,

I have to be hard headed with fellows like you and others here [smilie=1:

Joe

[jeff223]

here's some boolits recovered from deer.wonder why the boolit on the left lost so much weight?
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid149/pcf56c154dd70fc60635688d61ee68e02/f605d8c9.jpg
sorry guys i never shot a deer with a cast boolit yet!

[44man]

The way I feel about it is that when any bullet or boolit is "recovered from a deer" it is not doing it's job and must only be used for broadside through the lung shots. A big bone or quartering shot would give me the big IF as to wether it went in far enough or broke up on a bone. These bullets show that they open too fast and larger game or even a very large deer, will give you trouble. Many bullets are just not tough enough and one should be chosen that expands just enough and continues all the way through from any angle and smashes any bone without losing weight and stopping. For instance, the .44, 240 gr XTP can stop in a deer with no bone hit but the 300 gr will expand perfectly and go all the way through. My choice is the 300 gr. Lighter bullets will either give spectacular kills or lost deer.
Now a heavy hard cast, large bore boolit with a very large meplat does not need to expand and will not stop in any deer or most any other animal and will kill as fast as any jacketed bullet. The smaller the bore, the more expansion is needed and the heavier the boolit has to be to go deep.
Any time I find a bullet in a deer, I step up to the next size.
I read a lot about guys using super light bullets and getting fast kills, but it means passing up every shot until the deer is very close and standing perfectly broadside. If this is how you hunt, they will work. If you can place a revolver bullet right in the perfect spot out to 100 yd's with every single shot, they will work. In reality, none of us are that good and deer never stand perfectly. My choice is a heavy, good performing boolit.

[steveb]

I just got done filling up a few laundry jugs with water and going to attemp to retrieve one of those Ranch Dog TLC432-285-RF from them, along with several half gallon jugs of water for my shooting pleasure. Also I just got done stirring the 5 gallon bucket of old paint we have here and its nice and thick now. I need this bucket for WW BUT I have thought about you guys and your viewing enjoyment so I'm sacrificing the 5 gallon bucket of paint so I can get video and post some picts. Of course I will get my kicks off of it as well![smilie=1: I'll be back with the results!:castmine: :Fire:

[Mountain]

With the possibility of being able to hunt with my Rossi next year here in Indiana

I live in Indiana also and this sure is welcome news. Where did you read up on this proposed rule change?

[steveb]

Heres the Ranch Dog TLC432-285-RF boolits after being recoverd from a log after sailing through the water jugs and paint can. Average weight is 225. One very important thing about shooting video. YOU NEED TO PRESS RECORD[smilie=1: . I did get some video though.:roll:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/RDwater1.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/RDwater.jpg



I put the video in gif format that way it could be viewed right in the thread instead of us(including me) with sloow dialup connections. For those interested just let the page load up for your viewing pleasure.:castmine:



http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/gifs/linedup.gif

[steveb]

Again this is for those of us who have sloow connections. Just let the page load up to see the short video clip.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/stevensavage/gifs/twirling.gif

Next time I'll be using green paint!

[Bass Ackward]

Steve,

Now all you have to do is back up a little at a time and see how far that continues and you are there.