Class 3 weapons license?

[Gunload Master]

Does anyone have a class 3 weapons license or know how to get one? Enquiring for my brother.

[StarMetal]

You go to a class III dealer and fill out the papers on the class III weapon you want to buy.

Joe

[waksupi]

It's a Federal license, and they are the guys who handle it. Aside from the fee, he will need approval from the local sherrif, or highest LEO in the county. He will need to be fingerprinted, for a FBI background check. It will take from three to six months generally.

[9.3X62AL]

After using this type of firearm for 6-7 years at work, it occurred to me that select-fire arms are pretty much self-regulating........expensive to buy, and VERY expensive to feed. Consider the initial investment and operating costs before going through the hassle of getting approved.

[Willbird]

GL master here is what you do basically

1. apply for and get an 07 FFL firearms mfg.
2. pay 500.00 per year for an 02 Special Occupational Taxpayer (due in june each year)

so for 150.00 every 3 years and 500 per year you can legally mfg. all the supressors, sawed off shotguns and rifles, any other weapons, and machineguns that you wish to.

simplified that is it.

www.subguns.com is a great place to ask for the nitty gritty details.

Bill

[StarMetal]

...and if you do what Willbird suggested you'll be open to Federal investigation at their wimp. You make any mistakes and some imate will own your ass, literally, in a federal prison.

It's better to let some other federal licensed dealer take all the heat. Once you do get a license to own a machine, that license has to go with the gun everywhere it goes. If you let a friend shoot it, it almost has to be in his pocket. The ATF lets us slide on alot of things, but they don't full around with Class III weapons.

Deputy Al is right, these full auto weapons are like a big block chevy with dual four barrel carbs, in this day and age when gasoline is so expensive so is the ammo needed to feed one of those ammo grinders. Another thing is parts wear out on them faster, especially the barrels. Barrels are regulated, except the short submachinegun ones, but you better believe it's getting harder and harder to nonchanlantly buy the full auto trigger componants and sears. They are beginning to watch them. I figure if a person was disgusting rich they would be fun to play with, but in a long run they are expensive and it's also hard to find alot of places that will let you shoot them.

Just my two cents as I've always wanted a full auto Thompson. My best friend said the best thing to buy would be a registered auto sear for an AR 15, that way the only thing that is licensed is the sear, not the rifle. IF you buy an M16 and literally wear out or ruin the serialized lower receiver, you're out getting another Class III licenses for a new receiver...not so with an auto sear.

Joe

[longhorn]

Starmetal-my limited experiences with 'em (other people's legal MAC-11, MAC-10(?9mm), and 1928 Thompson) were that they were more like an early '70's Alfa Romeo dual cam with 3 2-barrels--great fun for very limited exposure, but they just wouldn't run for long-and buy-in and maintenance are both exorbitant. Way too many hours in the garage for a little fun. Didn't Mike Dillon begin inventing progressive presses so he could feed full autos? You'd have to have your own personal Magma rig, too.

[StarMetal]

longhorn

exactly. When I had my license and business I was always ordering cases of 9mm for the guns with the subguns that didn't reload. They chew right through ammo and parts.

Joe

[Willbird]

But also MG are not the only c3 devices, supressors, and the other stuff is cool too.

and as to govt scrutiny....ANY FFL other than C&R has that exposure...and the same requirements as to record keeping.

There are many myths and misconceptions about C3 stuff. Bottom line is you are simply taking advantage of the same group of rights all gun owners do, and appeasing the ATF by not owning C3 just means your guns will be supper rather than breakfast.



Bill

[KCSO]

Hey don't forget INSURANCE...
Our local Class 3 gave it up because the insurance ate up all the profit.

[azrednek]

After using this type of firearm for 6-7 years at work, it occurred to me that select-fire arms are pretty much self-regulating........expensive to buy, and VERY expensive to feed. Consider the initial investment and operating costs before going through the hassle of getting approved.

That is exactly the reason I shyed away from class 3 weapons in the 70's, my shooting buddies didn't. Apx 6 months ago one friend made close to a $20,000 profit on the sale of his M-60. When I first looked at Thompsons apx 72-73 depending on the model the cost was about 400-900. I came close to a Colt mfg. M-16 in the late 70's for an even thousand but changed my mind at the last minute. Now with my 20/20 hind-sight I hate to discourage anybody from going the full auto route. I can't begin to speculate what class 3's will be worth in the next 30 years.

[StarMetal]

when I worked for US Steel in Pittsburgh, I had a friend there that was a gunsmith. He had a friend in Chicago that he went and visited one time he was telling us about. While there his friend asked him to reblue a Thompson machinegun for him. Now this information and the gun were exchanged inside this Chcagoan's home. It wasn't too long after my friend got back home he received a visit from the FBI. All they said to him was "That Thompson you got from your friend in Chicago, get rid of it right away". That meaning my friend said, to call his friend and get the hell down to Pitts and get this Thompson out of his place. This is only one TRUE story of many that I could recite here. Don't tell me that class III stuff isn't watched close. You may not even know how close. The ATF wants to make the big kills, they don't hardly mess with small dealers. I don't have a class III license, but I bet you if I did and I shot of a whole magazine full auto, and even though I live kinda remotely in the TN mountains, don't you doubt for one minute that the sheriff and his deputies would be up here in a few minutes wanting to know what was going on. Oh yeah, I'd be legal and all and they would go on their way, but it can be a hassle shooting one of these machineguns. If you have closer neighbors you better believe they will turn you in even though you're legal.

Willbird if the gun grabbers knew how easy it was to get a class III weapon they would raise such a ruckus that I bet the ATF would stop their ownership and sell all together.

Too me it's not worth the hassle. They are equally documented to sell as to buy, you just can't trade it in at the local gunshop (unless it's a Class III dealership).

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

Good point, AZ. They are TREMENDOUS investments.

If I were to get one, it would be to keep, and running them is just too rich for my blood. Hell, the HK-91 and M1A I once had got sold for the same reasons, and they were SEMI-autos.

[StarMetal]

Alot of guns are good investments that even bring more money then class three's. Shotguns for example. Anothe dealer friend of mine that does gunshows alot was telling me and my best friend about these two shotguns this gun had for sell at a very reasonable and how he almost broke his neck to get over to the guys house to buy them. My best friend asked why? He told us he bought those two shotguns and turned right around and sold them for $11,000 !!!

If you keep something like a class three the day will come when they ban them and then you're stuck with giving it up for ridiculous price. Look what has happen in Kalifornia on the assault rifle ban. I bougth a HK UPC 45 acp Carbine for a ridiculous price from a fellow that lived there because he had to get rid of it by a certain date.

Joe

[azrednek]

With me being the cheapskate I am I don't even like feeding a semi. If you ever get a chance try to see Dillion's video "Machinegun Magic" You might wonder as I do where the shooters in the movie work and if they are hiring!! Can you just imagine what some of the shooters in his movie do for a living, two in paticular, one has a 7.62 G.E. mini-gun and another turret mounted quad-50's. I can't imagine what it would cost to feed those toys. Buying 50 caliber in large quanitys it is likley a few bucks per shot just think what it would cost having four of them going at the same time, a 30 second burst would probably cover a trip to Vegas and pay my bills for a few months.

[KCSO]

Our Full auto training is done by an NRA member who is a class 3 dealer. We can shoot anything in his collection if we bring the ammo and clean the guns when done. Last session we shot Uzi, Sten, Thompson, Gease gun, BAR, PPSH,MP5. In addition we brought our own Car's. We raked the range and put brass in bushel baskets. Over the years we have shot select fire Mauser broomhandles and MARS pistols and a full auto Colt 1911. Only three of us reload so we get all the brass, I have 2 5 gallon buckets of unsorted brass waiting to sort, clean and polish. The downside to this is I got blisters from loading magazines!

[Scrounger]

Our Full auto training is done by an NRA member who is a class 3 dealer. We can shoot anything in his collection if we bring the ammo and clean the guns when done. Last session we shot Uzi, Sten, Thompson, Gease gun, BAR, PPSH,MP5. In addition we brought our own Car's. We raked the range and put brass in bushel baskets. Over the years we have shot select fire Mauser broomhandles and MARS pistols and a full auto Colt 1911. Only three of us reload so we get all the brass, I have 2 5 gallon buckets of unsorted brass waiting to sort, clean and polish. The downside to this is I got blisters from loading magazines!

Local class three dealer takes anyone who wants out to shoot his stuff. And he has a big variety. He furnishes ammo and charges a $1 a round (.50 cal amd 20mm is more). Seems high to me but I really have no interest in it anyway. Friend of mine from CA went out with him and burned up $300 in less than an hour. Thought it was well worth it. He'll be back.

[StarMetal]

KSCO

How was the PPSH? That should have been a 7.62x25 Tokarev round, right? If so I bet the muzzle blast was really bad.

Joe

[Iron River Red]

I have to inject this into the conversation;

About 4 or 5 months ago I contacted the BATF about the requirements of owning a class 3 weapon. I was told by the agent himself that for me to convert one of my AR-15's to full auto would require me to obtain a class 3 manufacturers license. This required me to have open purchase orders from a military or law enforcement agency and to have proper manufacturing and storage facilities that provided a secure means to store the completed weapons. Then they could only be shipped to class 3 dealers. Some of the requirements I was told were very difficult and restrictive for the average person.

Be careful when following someone's advise on a class 3. Go straight to the source (BATF) for accurate AND up to date information. They will want to know exactly where the unit will be stored and will require being notified if you move.

Someone previously stated it is easier to go to a class 3 dealer and let him handle the transaction. I believe this would be the least painful.

So, when someone tells you you can convert your AR or Ak or whatever to full auto by simply getting a class 3 license and buying the parts, they are wrong. I was also told you may not even keep the conversion parts on the same property as the weapon they fit.

Since the laws are continually changing, I strongly suggest you have your brother contact the BATF for clarification before making any decisions.

Again, be careful. Its one thing having a girlfriend and another being a "girlfriend"...

;-)

[Gunload Master]

Thanks for all the great replies, I will let my brother read this for some clarification on his part.

[Willbird]

Well Red, there are several types of SOT, one is an 03 (dealer) and that person must have a demo letter as the ATF told you. There are dealer samples made before a certian date with differant rules but that is the ghist of it.

an 02 (mfg) can make 100,000 M16 recievers or 3 of them without having to have a demo letter, that person files a form 2 for each class 3 device (except Dangerous and Destructive devices) he mfg. within 24 hours of when doing so.

both are required to have an 07 ffl.

There are lots of twists in the law that people don't know about, like the fact that any ffl may take in a mgun to repair it. and also that even joe sixpack can mfg. m16's for the local police dept with a form one (look it up, I assure it is true)

also fear of class 3 devices and such is no better than the weird trapshooters that think it is ok for the govt to take OUR guns as long as they leave their trap guns alone............divide and conquer is the name of the game.

and I have on many occasions ripped of a 30 round mag from a mgun, expoding dynamite with the projectiles even and nobody came to see what was up (not my guns)

to just BUY an M16 Red if it is legal in your state and locality all you do is get the form 4 signed by local law enforcement (sherrif, police chief, others) and then send it in with 200.00, two fingerprint cards, etc. and wait for it to come back in 2-3 months.....even neater is if you own a corp. corps can buy mguns and other c3 devices with NO leo signoff, just sedn in the form with a copy of articles of inc. and $200.00 and wait for the form to come back approved. (but it is gonna cost you prolly $8000.00)

Buying a Mgun in many ways is no more difficult than buying a CMP garand...they are the most heavily regulated weapons, with the fewest problems, the only murder ever comitted with a registered mgun was a detroit police officer who shot an informant with a mac-10.

I think they are a poor investmant because the govt. COULD decide to change laws in a way that would lower value. but that is true of any investmant based on a distortion of the free market.

Bill