Melt is dirty!

[lead_her_fly]

OK, I am having some problems and thought I would as some questions.

First off, I smelt in a different operation than when I cast. Different pots and the whole 9 yards. I don't flux when I am smelting either.

The temperature in the smelting never got above 700*F according to my Lyman thermometer. I did not go through the wheel weights looking for zinc ones. I figured I would just keep it cool and scrape them off. I did find a few that way. Also, I didn't leave them in there long.

At any rate, I cannot get my melt clean to save my life. I have used White Label Lube's BAC, straight Gulf Paraffin, scented candle wax (just cause its there) and still, I get stuff floating up in the Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot.

I dumped the melt tonight and there was some yellowish soot on the inside of the pot that seems pretty hard. I am going to take all of that out and try again.

When I flux and the flames go out, there is a bunch of stuff floating on the top. Mostly it is ashy looking. I scrape it off and get a shiny melt. After about a minute or two, there is more stuff on top. Now, it must have come from the bottom and then the boolits start looking like there is "stuff" in them.

Should I remelt the ingots and flux them and repour?

Need a little help here folks!


Thanks in advance!

[JudgeBAC]

It can't hurt to remelt the ingots in your ingot melter, reflux, re-pour and start over.

I have had the same yellow deposits on occasion. Clean out your pot and start with fresh ingots and see what happens.

[docone31]

Ok, you got ingots.
They will have dirt spots in the melt. That is almost inevitable. I put Kitty litter on my pot. I have to put the ingots on the litter and it melts its way in. Dirt seems to say behind. At least for the most part.
The yellowish stuff is a sulphate. I have seen that in mine. Again, the litter takes it in.
Another trick is to put sawdust on top of the melt. The Carbon helps. Every once in a while, I toss in some beeswax. That helps, and it smells good also.
I don't think I would re ingot if that were me. I have on occasion though and each time I get crud. Seems to go with the territory.
When I make ingots, I do crank up the heat. I like it hot! After the zinc is removed, then crank up the heat. Another thing I will do, is heat it, and let it sit. Stuff works its way up there also.
I have also heated, shut down the heat source, then reheated. I usually add some roof lead then.
You will get there.
I scrape down the insides everytime I do a casting session also. I always get something there.

[jameslovesjammie]

Also flux with sawdust. I used to use pure beeswax and imho it want nearly as effective as sawdust

[XWrench3]

First, you NEED to flux when you are smelting! i double, and sometimes triple flux when i am smelting depending on how dirty it is. second, you need a mixing tool that is long enough to stir the flux WHILE it is burning. what i do (fluxing while smelting) is break off a small chunk (about the size of the end of my thumb) of parafin wax with a screwdriver. drop that in the melt right after removing all the clips. stir it in until all of it has burned off. then scoop out all the crud that comes to the top. then, i repeat the process if it was real dirty. if it wasn't to bad, i move on to sawdust. sawdust will not burn, but if there is much moisture in it, it will make some small bubbles so watch out for small flying droplets of molten lead. :holysheep i stir that in real well while it is smoking. it will smoke like crazy too. when that is done, i scrape all of that off, and the lead will be reasonably clean. clean enough that i can usually cast quite a while without cleaning my casting pot. i also flux the casting pot twice. once with parafin, and once with sawdust. there is no such thing as lead that is to clean. and the real problem is not a dirty pot, it is that all of your boolits will have some abrasives in them, [smilie=b: and that wears barrels a lot faster than jackted bullets. i hope this helps you. in your situation, i would remelt all of the lead ingots you have, :groner: so you can flux them. it is a lot of work, but you need to get the lead clean. then you can go to town, and have some fun!:Fire::Fire:

[buck1]

+1 on fluxing the big pot!

[Centaur 1]

I use wooden paint stir sticks to scrape the inside of my 4-20 pot. The wood fluxes while it scrapes the sides of the pot.

[Bret4207]

I flux while rendering down the WW and stuff. I use a large slotted spoon to remove debris. I flux with a long stick, scraping the pot sides and bottom and will sometimes thrown in sawdust, leaves, scrap wood if it's really filthy stuff. Get it as clean as you can and it's that much less work to do in the casting pot.

Ferrous pots rust, no way out of it. Use a stick scrape and stir and rub in on the bottom and sides, you'll loosen the crud, get carbon down under the mix and do a better job fluxing overall than leaving wax or whatever on the surface of the pot. Your alloy will be shiny for a little while then will "cloud over" and you'll get the dull look. That's oxidation, it's normal. If it really bothers you leave a layer of something covering the surface to reduce it's formation.

Save all the dross you skim. When you get a bunch put it in your ingot pot and render it down with lots of fluxing. You'll get more alloy then you think you would back.

[dragonrider]

"I don't flux when I am smelting either."

That's why you melt it dirty, always flux with sawdust while smelting. I seldom flux my casting pot but do so two or three times while smelting.

[acl864]

Skip,
You know I'm far from an expert, but I've been pleased with the results if I flux with sawdust twice after removing the clips from the melt. My ingots come out pretty clean. When I melt the ingots in my casting pot I flux once more with sawdust and scrape the pot with hardwood scraps about the size and shape of paint stirring sticks. I get mine from a local Cabinet Shop.
I started out using candle wax and lube to flux both my ingot and casting pots but after trying sawdust and flat sticks I have used them exclusively. They work better for me. Especially in my casting pot. It's a Lee so the spout drips whatever I do, but it drips less now. I'm guessing the flat stick scraping the sides and the bottom gets gunk broke loose and on top of the melt before it gets in the spout and keeps it from closing. Or maybe it's just getting the melt cleaner. Either way I like the sawdust and stick method of fluxing.

I hope this helps, Andy

[lead_her_fly]

Thanks all,

I guess I am in for trying some saw dust and a pot stirring stick! (That last part doesn't bother me at all! I've been known to stir a pot or two! :) )

Andy, Thanks friend!


Right now, I am using a stainless steel mess hall type perforated serving spoon that I got from GFS to stir with during fluxing. I use an old spoon that the wife donated to skim with.

Sounds like I am in for some "re-ingoting" so to speak! Now that I know that there aren't any zinc weights in the melt I can turn the heat up a bit. Maybe that is what I need to do during smelting.

Have to think about this a bit! ;)

Once again, thanks and keep the suggestions coming!

[casterofboolits]

I smelt about 60 pounds per batch in a plumbers pot. Usually 50/50 indoor range lead and wheelweights. I normally flux at least three time. First to skim the jackets and dirt from the range lead, then to skim the WW clips and finally before pouring ingots. I try to get the cleanest mix I can before putting the ingots in my bottom pour pots and also flux the BP pots before casting.

I use rejected Magma lubed boolits for fluxing.

[John Guedry]

The more fluxing while smelting the less you need to when casting. The less crud that goes into the casting pot the better off you are.

[lead_her_fly]

OK, I went to a wooden stir stick. Piece of cabinet scrap oak. Now that works good! You can feel it trying to float and it burns deep in the pot. Gets the fluxing all the way to the bottom.

Couldn't find any saw dust. That is on the agenda though.

I put 20lbs back into the cast pot and fluxed the snot out of it. 3 times with candle wax, once for a long time with the wooden stick and then back to the candle wax. Got the melt as clean as I have ever seen it. Worked much better.

I also drained and cleaned the Lee 4-20 with a rotary wire brush. Then I coated it with spray on dry graphite, like you get from MSC. This seemed to help with the yellow stuff sticking to the side of the pot. With the wooden stir stick, that stuff just brushes right off.

Since we have no idea just what is in our wheel weights, maybe I am in an area where there is much more sulfur or something! That is what that yellow stuff looks like anyway.

At any rate, things are much better now and I cranked out some really nice looking boolits this afternoon. The one mould I just got from Miha is doing better too. It sure needs more tin than I am used to putting in a mould. I wanted some really soft boolits for the 45Colt but this hollow point mould likes much more Linotype and lead free solder than will be useful to that end.

Thanks for all of your help. God Bless and if you have anymore suggestions, feel free!

[bhn22]

I believe the yellow scum is water soluble, if I remember correctly. I still see it from time to time. One of my final cleaning steps for my pot is to make certain all the lead is out of it, then I boil water in it. It only takes about a minute to boil water in a Lyman pot. I unplug it as soon as boiling starts. It is utterly amazing how much invisible **** floats to the surface.

[RP]

Something else that may help you guys out when I have my smelting fluxed I leave the ashes floating on the melt keeping the air off my lead, As I fill my ingots from the ladle the ash stays in the lead flows out you cant empty it but you dont need to. Doing it this way I have found keeps the heat in better and the film off the lead. And like alot have said the cleaner it is before it hits the casting pot the better you be in the end.

[onondaga]

When I smelt wheel weight or when I melt ingots I flux the same way. I check that the metal in the pot is hot enough to ignite rolled news paper. I flux with a mixture of half sawdust and half ground leather, stir briskly, scrape the sides and bottom of the pot and stir again fast enough that centripetal force drifts the crud to the center and scoop it off with a soup spoon till clear of debris and oxide. I refer to a chart I keep on what temp setting works well with a full pot for each of my bullet moulds and set it there after fluxing at full power when alloy is fluxing hot. When casting bullets I changed one thing over the years that caused me a problem --- I stopped putting sprues into the pot until the level goes down to 1 inch. Then I add new alloy and sprues to fill again and then flux. I noticed that adding sprues during a casting session makes a lot more oxides and crud on the top of the melt. I flux once for smelting and once for casting each melt and I don't stir after beginning to cast at all until I add metal and reflux. This has made bullet weight more consistent and alloy sufficiently clean. I use two Lee 4-20 bottom spout melters and neither of mine leak because I turn the cleaning screw frequently and keep the flow adjustment relative to the level of alloy in the pot. I clean the bottom spout after every melt and flux. I clean the spout by using a bent paper clip in a pliers to gently scrape inside the spout then release a small amount of alloy through the spout to check flow. When done casting or smelting I leave 1 inch spoon cleaned metal in the pot as Lee recommends and spray the pot when cool using WD40 to keep rust down. I use about 100 lbs of lead a year and my melters are 12 and 15 years old, they work like new. I sparingly brush lubricate the cleaning screw and spout rod contact areas with neverseize lubricant before each session. I ladle pour ingots and I spout pour for bullets.

[Longwood]

My stirring spoon is one of those round bowl soup spoons, that I used my belt sander to make a flat edge on the bottom and one side of, grinding off enough to form a right angle corner at the bottom. I then slit a 5/8 dowel with two blades in a hack saw and used small screws to fasten it to the handle of the spoon. Works great.
LS