Help slugging a barrel

[Steel Assassin]

I just got my paws on a Marlin 1894 .44 Mag and I want to shoot cast bullets in it. I'm pretty much "cast stupid" but I do know that a properly sized bullet is essential for optimum performance. My problem is that I don't know how to slug a barrel. Can anyone help me out? As an alternative, maybe someone could supply me with a copy of "Cast Bullets for Dummies". :)

[Bass Ackward]

I just got my paws on a Marlin 1894 .44 Mag and I want to shoot cast bullets in it. I'm pretty much "cast stupid" but I do know that a properly sized bullet is essential for optimum performance. My problem is that I don't know how to slug a barrel. Can anyone help me out? As an alternative, maybe someone could supply me with a copy of "Cast Bullets for Dummies". :)


SA,

Why would we want to supply you with a copy of cast bullets for dummies. You found the WEB site!

1. Clean out the copper.
2. When you are sure it is all out, clean it again. Then lightly oil the bore.
3. Use a soft fishing sinker or other chunk of lead and insert from front. It should push easily with a wooden dowel and don't drop it.

Use the search function for more info. Must be at least 20 topics that cover everything from the process to measurement to barrel breakin to fire lapping if necessary.

Then load bullet .002 or more over that diameter.

[BABore]

Go to your local fishing tackle shop and pick up an egg sinker a bit larger than your bore. I'm talking the ones that look like an egg with a hole running through it.

Starting with a squeaky clean bore, remove the finger lever, bolt, and extractor. Lube the bore with a coating of WD40 or similar light oil. Lube up the sinker good too. Use a plastic mallet to start it in the muzzle and pound it flush. You should shear off a ring of lead. Now use a none marring aluminum or brass rod, close to bore size to drive the slug through with a large, heavy hammer. The heavier the better as you want to use inertia rather than a bunch of light taps. Drive it through until it drops out the breech. Take note of any stoppages or rough spots and their location in the barrel. This is step one in my book.

Step two is to repeat the slugging. Drive the second one flush with the muzzle, then drive it back out from the breech.

The first, full pass slug, will give you the bore size, but any barrel constriction will size the slug smaller than it should be. Lever guns will usually show constrictions under the dovetail cuts and roll marking. One of mine showed a 0.0015" choke point. Measure your slugs with a good 0.0001" resolution micrometer. A caliper is a poor tool for this. Measure each slug acrossed each set of grooves, then average them. The slug you pounded flush with the muzzle, then removed, should be the same size or preferrably slightly smaller than the full pass slug. If the full pass slug is the smallest one, you may not be shooting cast as good as you could. A choke point or bore constriction will reduce your bullet's diameter as it passes through it and leave it rattle down the rest of the barrel. Exactly like shooting a wheel gun with chamber throats smaller than bore size.

These problems are correctable and can be addressed after you get some numbers. Once you do your slugging, bag, label and date your slugs. Try to get your bullets 0.001 to 0.002" over your measurements to start with. That should get you started. Further work can involve chamber casting to get a bullet that fills the throat yet still cycle. Levers are tons of fun. Hope this helps

[Steel Assassin]

Thanks BA - I happened across a pretty cool PDF on a surplus rifle sight that really details the process well. The only part I'm still a little unclear on is the measurement part, but I'll deal with that after I manage to complete the process of running a lead sinker through my barrel. I guess my next stop is over the Home Depot for a 3/8" dowel and then on to get my sinkers big enough for that itty bitty .44. This seems like a lot of trouble but I'm pretty sure it will pay off in frustration saved when I start out with a properly sized bullet.

[Steel Assassin]

BABore - excellent help...very detailed for this "dummy" I'm more than a little intimidated at this task, but I keep telling myself that it is needed for me to have a good chance at success with cast bullets. Thanks again...

[BABore]

SA

Please DO NOT use a wood dowel. Only aluminum or brass. Some have used a close fitting steel rod to, but I'd rather not. My smith told me of a few horror stories of where wood dowels have fractured at an angle. The next thump wedges the point of one piece between the barrel an the other piece. Said that it was extremely difficult to remove.

I've been using an old aluminum shotgun cleaning rod in most cases.

Just measure the slug across a set of the high spots (grooves) on your slug. It's easy to do. You don't need to worry about bore diameter at this point. That measurement requires a blade mic to do right. You won't be using a bore rider on your 44, so it's not really needed.

If your 44 is like most it will measure around 0.4300-0.4305" and prefer a 0.4320 to 0.433 bullet. MicroGroove rifling likes them big. It may or may not like lead bullets that start approaching 300 grains. The 1:38 twist rifling will stabilize 300+ grain bullets, but not at what a 44 mag is capable off. Guys with 444 Marlins can usually get away with them though. This is not etched in stone so only shooting them will tell.

[MT Gianni]

If you choose to use a metal rod wrapping it with electrical tape at 4" intervals will help to prevent scraping the sides. I invert a gas check of the next smallet size to help drive the lead slug without driving the rod into the slug. Gianni.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Steel Assassin, "Cast bullets for Dummies" has been superceded by Lyman's "Csat bullet Handbook." The latest edition is 25 years old, and some of it is a bit dated, but it is still the best book to start with. Also, the Cast bullet Association has a good book that they give you with your membership, along with a subscription to "The Fouling Shot." That's two more good sources.

[Bass Ackward]

SA

Please DO NOT use a wood dowel. Only aluminum or brass. Some have used a close fitting steel rod to, but I'd rather not. My smith told me of a few horror stories of where wood dowels have fractured at an angle. The next thump wedges the point of one piece between the barrel an the other piece. Said that it was extremely difficult to remove.

I've been using an old aluminum shotgun cleaning rod in most cases.



BA,

Let me tell you a secret about this business. In this business you can hear horror stories from just about anything. :grin: I can give you aluminum horror stories if you would like. If there is a way to mess something up, a shooter will always find a way.

Pounding? There is no pounding with wood or anything else for that matter. Once started, with a perfect and properly lubed bore, with my guns you can push the slug through with one finger. That is how you can tell if you have a problem of a constriction of the diameter, twist, or a rough spot. If you had to use more force than that, then your barrel is not ready for it's top performance with lead yet and will improve with some work. You probably slugged up and probably got a larger measurement by at least .0005 or so.

Brass is by far the best, or cover aluminum with tape. Let me give you an idiot proof method. Place stick on concrete floor or brick. hit briskly. If dowel doesn't break under hard impact, it won't break in your bore.

I use a dowel every time myself so I can feel .... what is happening.

[Steel Assassin]

I should be clear here that I have no intention of doing my own bullet casting. I'm quite happy to let someone else do that for me. With that said, I want to be able to specify the correct bullet diameter to request.

Also worth mentioning is that my Marlin 1894 is brand new and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have the Micro-groove rifling. I gave it a quick look the other day with a flashlight reflected off my thumbnail. Not as much light as a nice bore light but the lands looked pretty wide so I'm relatively confident it's Ballard rifling.

[felix]

It does not hurt to slick down the dowel with a hard wax lube. Actually, plain ol' canning wax is fine, but mixed 50-50 with straight up carnauba makes a longer lasting coat. I don't bother, and just reuse a bar of canning wax per application in some barrel, usually to knock out a boolit that stuck in the lands upon opening a bolt or something similiar. ... felix

[floodgate]

Assassin:

Good advice , with a few different viewpoints. I've always used wood dowels and never had a problem. I usually cut one about 3-4" long to get the bullet well into the bore, then a longer one (barrel length + 2" or so) to push it on through with hand pressure to feel for "hard" (tight) and "soft" (loose) spots. Some of us also do a third slug from the breech end (easy enough with Melvins, tougher with Westchesters). Ideal is a steadily decreasing groove diameter by about 0.001 - 0.002", breech to muzzle. BUT!!!

"I should be clear here that I have no intention of doing my own bullet casting. I'm quite happy to let someone else do that for me. With that said, I want to be able to specify the correct bullet diameter to request."

I'll wager the price of a set of mould handles (you can never have too many!) that within a year from now, you'll be casting your own.

floodgate

WOOPS! Got that backwards; my wager would only discourage you from casting, wouldn't it?; and then you would NOT need any handles. OK, PM me a year from to-day IF you are casting by then, and you'll have a set of handles coming for that set of mould blocks you bought off eBay.

Doug

[wills]

http://www.farmers-copper.com/esizes.cfm?id=464&shape=rnd&pline=Brass

Brass rod

[BABore]

BA,

Let me tell you a secret about this business. In this business you can hear horror stories from just about anything. :grin: I can give you aluminum horror stories if you would like. If there is a way to mess something up, a shooter will always find a way.

Pounding? There is no pounding with wood or anything else for that matter. Once started, with a perfect and properly lubed bore, with my guns you can push the slug through with one finger. That is how you can tell if you have a problem of a constriction of the diameter, twist, or a rough spot. If you had to use more force than that, then your barrel is not ready for it's top performance with lead yet and will improve with some work. You probably slugged up and probably got a larger measurement by at least .0005 or so.

Brass is by far the best, or cover aluminum with tape. Let me give you an idiot proof method. Place stick on concrete floor or brick. hit briskly. If dowel doesn't break under hard impact, it won't break in your bore.

I use a dowel every time myself so I can feel .... what is happening.


I would agree and have done the same with my guns that have quality lapped barrels, but SA was posting about a Marlin 44 mag lever gun. I highly doubt he can hand push a slug through easily. My 450 Marlin bbl was rough as a cob prior to lapping. Now you can push a slug through it.

[Bass Ackward]

I would agree and have done the same with my guns that have quality lapped barrels, but SA was posting about a Marlin 44 mag lever gun. I highly doubt he can hand push a slug through easily. My 450 Marlin bbl was rough as a cob prior to lapping. Now you can push a slug through it.

BA,

Good point. I always make assumptions based on my situations.

I never had much problem with my 1894PG, but now that I think about it, I actually lapped it and then broke it in before any slugging attempts were made. My bore looked as if it was polished with gravel when I first got it.

Still the pounding on the floor gives you an indication of the strength of the dowel as long as you don't hit any harder than that. And with that large of a dowel, there is minimal force to expand the base of a slug like a hollow cleaning rod might make if it enters the bullet a little. That can give you a false impression just how rough that spot or constriction actually is. Especially if you haven't done that many before or if it has been a long time since your last one. I also like wood because, like Doug said, it transmits vibration like a fishing pole. It simply provides more information.

[drinks]

SA;
A wood dowel with straight grain is not going to be a problem, just select one that is straight grained.
To tell soft lead, try a thumb nail on it, if it will make a pretty deep scratch, you should be ok.
Even if it does not, plenty of lube will still work, just expect to tap it down a bit longer.
this is not rocket science, just good ol' boys in the backyards and shops.

[tom barthel]

I just got my paws on a Marlin 1894 .44 Mag and I want to shoot cast bullets in it. I'm pretty much "cast stupid" but I do know that a properly sized bullet is essential for optimum performance. My problem is that I don't know how to slug a barrel. Can anyone help me out? As an alternative, maybe someone could supply me with a copy of "Cast Bullets for Dummies". :)


SA, I am no expert but, this should be a simple job. I would get a good bore cleaner and scrub the bore out good. I'd run a lightly oiled patch through the bore. I would then insert a bullet type fishing sinker in the chamber. I've done this and it works. I got a wood dowel rod, I think it was 3/8 inch and used it to drive the fishing sinker through the bore. I used a dial caliper to measure the diameter of the sinker. That's my bore diameter. There are other ways but, this is the method I used.
I hope this is of assistance. I'm sure more knowledgeable people will offer more practicle advice. Good luck.

[steveb]

I should be clear here that I have no intention of doing my own bullet casting. I'm quite happy to let someone else do that for me. With that said, I want to be able to specify the correct bullet diameter to request.

.

Floodgate beat me to it but if you go hanging out here to long, you WILL be casting your own. Its a matter of time:twisted: Oh, and by the way, you just have to.......






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