End of informative reloading periodical

[4296]

While I have long ago given up on Guns and Ammo and Shooting Times for any interesting and informative firearm/handloading information- I am now saddened to add Handloader to the useless list. The recent inclusion Of Mike Venturino to the staff was a bad sign and the decline continues.The mag has turned into an advertisement for every new premium bullet- a subject that is covered ad nausum. The latest issue contains a full length feature article on polymer frame semi autos and contains no shooting results- let alone handloading data.
I have come to appreciate web sites like this more and more as the gun related printed information heads south.

[waksupi]

Since Mike is a board member here, and contributes some good info, I am glad to see him on their staff. He does have a good understanding of cast bullets, and tends to focus on old war horses, more than the plastic dishwasher safe guns.

[JeffinNZ]

Publishers are no fools and are driven by how many sales they can achieve. Perhaps the material you are seeing is what the great unwashed want to read about. It doesn't have to be the best material or most useful. It just has to sell magazines.

[bhn22]

Venturino has been at Handloader for some time. He's a hero to some here. I guess every gun board wants to have a "famous" writer come around once in a while.

[buck1]

Everyone has their favorite wrighters, and some that they dont agree with. Thats good as it keep everyone honest and on their toes to a point. ALL of them hit and miss sometimes, as do we all.
Skeeter, Elmer, And Oconner have left us , and we are left with a big void with out them.

Handloader is not what it once was in my opinion also. But none of them are. If it wernt for John Taffin I wouldnt read hardly ANYTHING anymore.
This place has become my go to place for reading and learning......Buck

[405]

"The recent inclusion Of Mike Venturino to the staff was a bad sign and the decline continues."

4296, What the heck is that all about???

Mike is one of the only reasons I occasionally read the magazine. He is honest, writes based on his shooting and results, is an accomplished bullet caster, knows a little about old Buffalo Guns and Lever Guns and old Revolvers, knows something about BPCR, has hunted his fair share, has a better than average understanding of the English language and leaves the BS and nonsense to others. His more recent coverage of the military war horses is another part of his interest that he has not covered in the past. His interest in those guns probably relates to his interest in history and in no small part because of his dad's history. The old military small arms material keeps that interest thus writing, fresh IMO.

[cbrick]

4296,

Mike V. is one of the few that I look forward to at Handloader. If it weren't for him I may not read it at all any more and I have every single issue ever published right from #1. I'm sure that he gets his fair share of an editor dictating the subject to write about but he has a good understanding of casting and shooting cast bullets.

No, it's not the magazine it used to be but I suspect that one of the problems is getting worthwhile material and writers.

As for the other mags, I gave them up many years ago for the same reasons as you.

As a member here Mike contributes many informative posts, I for one hope he continues.


plastic dishwasher safe guns.

Dishwasher safe guns :lol:, gotta love that, never heard it put that way. :mrgreen:

Rick

[XWrench3]

that is sad.

[wallenba]

Ooooh kaaay.....gotta go clean the dishwasher now.

[wiljen]

I miss Ken Waters though, I will say that. Always liked his articles and were the reason I read gun rags for years.

[82nd airborne]

We should all get together and every month contribute informative writings to produce a magazine that is not just about casting, but guns and shooting in general. It would be a dang good mag! I guess there already is an online version here.

[82nd airborne]

I just look at the pictures anyways.............

[wiljen]

We should all get together and every month contribute informative writings to produce a magazine that is not just about casting, but guns and shooting in general. It would be a dang good mag! I guess there already is an online version here.


We have that, we call it http://www.castpics.net Member Articles

[82nd airborne]

told ya it was a good idea.

[454PB]

Mike and Brian keep me buying Handloader.

[Uncle Grinch]

Handloader and Rifle changed somewhat many years ago when they started showing up in the grocery store magazine racks.

If memory serves me correctly, they actually had a "newsstand" version of the two magazines that was not quite as technical as the subscriber version.

Anyway.. These are the only two magzines that I still subscribe to and that has been for many many years.

[alamogunr]

Mike and Brian keep me buying Handloader.

+1. And I read every article in every issue, but Mike V. and Brian P. are the articles I read first. Plus it took me awhile to get a complete set of Handloader and I'm not ready to quit now.

John
W.TN

[skeet1]

4296,
I am very happy you said something about Mike being put on the staff of Handloader, I might just have to go back to buying it again. A few years back I wrote to the editor because it was becoming just like all the other new stand magazines and he didn't see it my way even a little bit and told me so. It became the only thing I liked reading was Ken Waters and the rest was not worth looking at. I stopped my subscription. Now that Mike is with them maybe I'll have to re-subscribe.

Skeet1

[4296]

I guess I should elaborate on my dislike of Mike Venterino as a writer for Handloader.
The thing I really liked about this mag was a general attempt to develop and refine techniques to increase the efficiency of handloaded ammunition. This included results with new tools, powders, and procedures.
Mike, I feel, has long ago stagnated in his handloading efforts. The reloading recipes he publishes are the same he has printed for years. His recent flood of articles on his recently acquired military submachine guns (at the cost(admittedly) of some of his once beloved N-Frames) has left me perplexed. While some (many?) may have an interest in these inaccurate bullet hoses, I do not see a correlation to precision handloading.
I do not expect nor wish that everyone share my views on the art and science of handloading ammunition, but I had come to expect more from the pages of what WAS an exception to the rule.
I did not intend to offend-simply to see if others felt the same.

[10 ga]

Subscriptions? I get "American Rifleman" with my NRA membership, "Trapper and Predator Caller" with my VA Trappers Association membership and National Trapper with my National Trappers Association Membership. I quit on the "subscription" rags years ago. Now it's mostly Castboolits, Coyote Gods, Dougs, and Trapperman on the www. OH how times they are a changin. 10

[NVcurmudgeon]

I quit Handloader and Rifle in the late nineties when they went real big on color photos and real little on words. Recently I have found two good reasons to buy both of the Wolfe publications- Mike Venturino and the "buycott" in support of Arizona. In fact I cancelled Shooting Times and followed Mike to Wolfe. Mike does his own research, has a well-spattered casting area unlike most writers who always have pictures of pristine lead pots, and is honest. Notice that whenever his interests and subjects of articles change he has to sell guns to buy what he needs. Now there's one writer who is not on the gun factory gravy train.

[sergeant69]

since mike is on the board here and may actually tune in to this station once in awhile, i have a question. WHENS THE DAMN BOOK COMING OUT?? i expect an autographed copy for waiting so long! i too get a little tired of his obsession w/the antique boolit squirters, but the entertainment value makes up for it.

[The10mmKid]

snip

Dishwasher safe guns :lol:, gotta love that, never heard it put that way. :mrgreen:

Rick

Yep, Dishwasher safe.

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/glocks-in-the-dishwasher.jpg

'da Kid

[EchoSixMike]

I've always used any shooting publication as a simple baseline for what I load. Most of the stuff I do(other than cookie cutter practice ammo) is wildcats and specialty ammo anyways, which has always been best supported by dedicated experts in the field, not writers.

Besides, NRA Highpower and Long Range stuff is a small enough field where you know all the experts, and after some experience, they know you. There's few problems or interests that can't be resolved with a phone call.

The gun rags are advertising, and I use them to see if anything being produced might actually be worth something. Combined with going to SHOT every year, I get a pretty good idea of what's going to be worthwhile and what's going to flop.

Some times, things just strike enough of a fancy that I do them anyways, in spite of knowing they'll probably fail, stuff like 9x23 or 6.8mm SPC(still hope). S/F.....Ken M

[Bret4207]

I've PM'd with Mike a little here and he seems like a decent guy. I just wish he'd go even more tech in his articles.

Handloader and Rifle are shadows of their past glory. Ken Waters, Al Miller, George Nonte, Rick Jamison, Jim Carmichael and a host of others used to write some real good and meaty articles. I don't think we'll ever see another Ken Waters, not ever. Cripes, they used to have Harvey Donaldson! You don't get much higher up in the "Legendary Shooter" arena than that. But they also used to have Dave Wolfe, Neal Knox and Ken Howell running things. Those days are gone. The only things keeping me buying Handloader are Brian Pearce and the occasional article by one of the other "Staff" writers that interests me. I mean, for God's sake, they employ Clair Reese, the best example of a "hack" I've seen. Might as well get David Fortier and Maj Gen Commandant Boddington (USMCR) to write their tripe as have Reese on board.

Okay Bret, calm down, your breakfast is getting soggy...

[nighthunter]

I just look at the pictures anyways.............

I believe you are thinking of a different magazine 82nd.

[sergeant69]

I believe you are thinking of a different magazine 82nd.

does it have "bunnies" on it?

[oldhickory]

For me it's gotten almost to the point where Mike V's articles, (and some from Brian Pierce) are about the only reason I still subscribe. If Mike can bring more articles of interest to the magazine, then by all means he belongs on staff!

Recently I went through about 20yrs. of "Hand Loader" looking for some .30WCF loads for jacketed bullets, (I have my cast boolit load:grin:). In all those magazines I found a grand total of 2, a sensable one written by Brian Pierce, and another by some-one else showing loads for super preimium bullets and powders that I never see in gun shops around here. When I buy jacketed bullets, I tend to buy Winchester Power Points in bulk, they work! I could care less what the latest $30.00 per 50 super preimium wonder bullet does, or how it does it. I like Mike's articles on casting and rifle and Brian's writing on loads for hand guns. I never get tired of reading about the old standards and working man's loads.

I think it's a good thing that Mike's now on staff, I just hope it doesn't detract from his writing.

[1Shirt]

10 ga sounds like a guy that I would like to have a cup of coffee with, jawbone awhile, and get to know.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[44man]

I like Mike! We have had words in the past but he is a good man and knows a lot. I always read his stuff, but sadly he does not go into depth enough working with one gun or caliber to find what works best.
I did like the 50-70 article and it will be of use to us. It is more in line with what I like to read instead of showing 20 guns with no specifics or a bunch of full auto stuff.
I don't blame Mike, I blame the rags that are filled with nothing but ads anymore. Read about a bullet and the last page is a huge ad.
It used to take days to probe through Handloader and I would write on the cover so I could find stuff easy but now I can finish the rag in 10 minutes without learning a single thing new.
I feel they brought Mike on board to increase failing sales, after all, the rag was for hand loaders but not anymore.
There are a lot of good gun writers out there but they are hindered by rag profits over information. Too many writers are forced to push products that pay the best to the rag. Yes, those products enter into every article somewhere with glossy pictures and some mention and if you notice, not a single bad word about a product is allowed.
I have to agree with Bret 100%, he says it best. The best thing I ever bought was Ken Waters Pet Loads books, we will never see anything like it again.

[EchoSixMike]

Addendum:

I used to read Ross Seyfrieds' stuff, he used to have interesting cast bullet articles, along with the British classic stuff that was interesting just for it's detail alone. S/F......Ken M

[jlchucker]

Whenever Mike posts here I read his stuff with interest. I've got his book Shooting Leverguns of the Old West and refer to it quite a bit, even though I've little interest in Cowboy Shooting. IMO he knows these old guns and their ammo and is worth paying attention to. As for gun magazines, I used to subscribe to several. Now, I subscribe to none. This website and a couple of others satisfy my interests completely.

[cheese1566]

I've always enjoyed reading Mike's articles and really appreciate his fondness to living in the Midwest in Montana. Plus his passion for casting and milsurp rifles.

I just the magazines would include Lee molds in the mix...:Fire:

[alamogunr]

As I posted earlier, I read every article and column, so obviously, I am not as advanced as most here. I recently received offers of very cheap subscriptions to the slick general appeal gun magazines so I subscribed for one year. I read them at the small exercise facility I use to control my diabetes. Twenty to thirty minutes on a stationary bike used to leave me completely brain dead. Now I can occupy my mind with some light reading and keep up with the "latest and greatest" developments in gun related products. I also leave them there for others.

John
W.TN

[Green Frog]

Let's get one thing on the table. Mass distribution magazines are for mass sales and consumption. This means that their very reason for existence is to sell to the largest possible range of readers and advertisers possible and that this will be the overarching consideration in planning and filling the pages each issue. :rolleyes:

If you are interested in a specialty magazine (like the old Handloader once was) you need to seek out specialty publishers usually associated with specialty groups. I would suggest Precision Shooting, Black Powder Cartridge News, and the member mags for Cast Bullet Association, the American Single Shot Rifle Association, and others of that ilk. You will become frustrated with the time between these and the fact that even they don't have as much "new" information as you want as you become more knowledgeable about the subject. That's life, and I guess we just have to deal with it! :violin:

Froggie

PS As to the writing of MV, I enjoy some of his stuff and skim through other things he writes. Like anybody else I know, sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't. His presence on an editorial staff certainly wouldn't discourage me from reading this or any other mag. JMHO, YYMV. GF

[castshooter-too]

I miss Charles Benke
He was the 6.5 cal. guru and the reason I bought my first swedish mauser.
I have since graduated to cast for all of my 6.5's and stick to this forum for informative
reading.Cast is where it's at.
Bruce

[Rocky Raab]

Uh-oh. It's all over now. The decline has steepened to freefall ...

After a long lapse, I have an article coming out soon in Handloader. Worse, it's about plated bullets!

(Relax, guys. I'm more of a "hobby" gun writer; I don't make even a fraction of my living at it. Just love to do it, is all. I've never met Mike, although I caught a glimpse of him at SHOT once. I'm not enamored of "The WWII Guns of Wherethehellistan" either, but apparently lots of people are. Magazines shouldn't ignore ANY audience - YOU might be one. If you find an article that doesn't appeal to you - by any writer - try this trick: turn the page.)

[HeavyMetal]

First lets talk about "suibscriptions"!

I stopped "sub's" so many years ago I can't remember. Why?

Because it Irked the living snot out of me that the mag always hit the newsstand a week and a half before it found it's way into my mail box!

I stopped buying G&A in the early 70's because they didn't have a clue and still don't.

I stopped buying Shooting Times when Skeeter died. With all due respect to Bart he isn't his dad and nothing else in that mag was worth reading.

American Handgunner?? Nice potography but just like the bunny mag why should I look at something I will never have or can afford to buy!

Handloader really gone down hill in the past 4 years really like the fact when you call and ask about manuscript formating they tell you they are booked with articles for the next 5
years please stop sending stuff. I've never sent then anything by the way!

I look at Handloader in the book store, IF it has something Ii buy it if not it gets left in the store.

Somebody at Wolfe needs to wake up and realize it as stale as month old bread!

[cajun shooter]

I myself have a lot of respect for Mike V. I just renewed my only magazine which is guns because of Mike's input. Most of us here grew up in the best of times when it came to gun writers and we are spoiled. How could you read anything written by Skeeter, Keith, or all the others posted above and put it down. Those men are gone and will never be replaced. I think Mike is in that family of writers as he is honest and got to where he is at through hard work. I don't care for his new found love of writing about WW11 weapons but that is him being honest about his likes and dislikes. I am jealous of the fact that he moved to where he wanted to live and made it work. I wanted to go to Colorado in 1980 but all the towns that I wanted to live in (SMALL) could not pay me enough as cop to survive. The ones that could were just like the one I was trying to leave. How many other writers take time to drop in on our fourm?

[44man]

Notice that Mike does not "dominate" this site. He is like the rest of us but I wish he would be more involved because I love to jabber with him if he can put up with an old grouch. [smilie=l:
Unlike other sites that have a "KING" of the hill and everyone trips all over themselves to side with the king even if he is wrong.
It is so much more important to be a normal person when you discuss things and just express your opinions, but even more important, listen to all other opinions.
Banter among us is correct and informing, it is why we come here.
I got in trouble with him about the appearance of pushing products and apologized when I would have been better off getting angry with the rags. Mike has to work for a living. He taught me that he is a good man, a normal man and feels no need to be the "king".

[mpmarty]

Long ago in a Galaxy far away,
I kept a copy of HANDLOADER magazine for one article in it. Loading 45 long colt for the "new" Ruger blackhawk. It listed loads far in excess of any "normal" loads and were close to 44 magnum performance. I of course had a Ruger 45 LC at the time and appreciated the detailed research that went into that article. I don't remember who the author was. This was in the seventies, the early seventies. I've read some of the later Handloader magazines and was not impressed in the least. I receive the Rifleman from the NRA monthly and strip out all the junk mail they include which reduces the content of the rag by about fifty percent.:bigsmyl2:

[hammerhead357]

I have always liked Mike V's writting some of it I might not agree with but who cares? He is feeding most of his boolit hoses with cast from what I can gather. But I don't read every article about them even though I wish I could afford a couple of them.
So I will continue to buy Handloader. I also like most of Brian P"s writting.
Like has been said before if you find something you don't like just turn the page!!!!!!
What is so hard about that??????Wes

[waksupi]

I personally enjoy the milsurp articles. Many of us on here are 03 license holders, and we can easily relate to the firearms being written about. I could care less about the new short mags, and such. I'd rather see things about the guns we actually own and use, that can be purchased at a reasonable price.
As far as the machine gun articles, true, most of us don't own them, but most of us would LIKE to own one.

[82nd airborne]

I believe you are thinking of a different magazine 82nd.

Oh, I forgot I swapped the covers.

[buck1]

I should add often mikes articles are the best in the handloader mag. Even if its not something I play with. He is a BOOLIT KIND OF GUY and plays with LEAD, wood and steel!

[Bret4207]

For me it's gotten almost to the point where Mike V's articles, (and some from Brian Pierce) are about the only reason I still subscribe. If Mike can bring more articles of interest to the magazine, then by all means he belongs on staff!

Recently I went through about 20yrs. of "Hand Loader" looking for some .30WCF loads for jacketed bullets, (I have my cast boolit load:grin:). In all those magazines I found a grand total of 2, a sensable one written by Brian Pierce, and another by some-one else showing loads for super preimium bullets and powders that I never see in gun shops around here. When I buy jacketed bullets, I tend to buy Winchester Power Points in bulk, they work! I could care less what the latest $30.00 per 50 super preimium wonder bullet does, or how it does it. I like Mike's articles on casting and rifle and Brian's writing on loads for hand guns. I never get tired of reading about the old standards and working man's loads.

I think it's a good thing that Mike's now on staff, I just hope it doesn't detract from his writing.

You want Ken Waters "Pet Loads".

[RayinNH]

I subscribe to a few, I do it to occupy my time in the terlit. Do I expect to learn a lot, hardly, it's like watching TV, a diversion on a subject I like.

Bullet hoses/squirters where mentioned, I happen to like them, they have character. Modern guns are like modern cars and architecture. They have no character, see one you've seen them all...Ray

[akajun]

I guess I should elaborate on my dislike of Mike Venterino as a writer for Handloader.
The thing I really liked about this mag was a general attempt to develop and refine techniques to increase the efficiency of handloaded ammunition. This included results with new tools, powders, and procedures.
Mike, I feel, has long ago stagnated in his handloading efforts. The reloading recipes he publishes are the same he has printed for years. His recent flood of articles on his recently acquired military submachine guns (at the cost(admittedly) of some of his once beloved N-Frames) has left me perplexed. While some (many?) may have an interest in these inaccurate bullet hoses, I do not see a correlation to precision handloading.
I do not expect nor wish that everyone share my views on the art and science of handloading ammunition, but I had come to expect more from the pages of what WAS an exception to the rule.
I did not intend to offend-simply to see if others felt the same.
How can you call swill 1911's and k31's, mauser 98's, swede mausers, and 03 springfields bullet hoses? Come shoot a vintage match sometime. You can shoot a tricked out ar service rifle, Ill shoot a "bullet hose", well see who wins.

[oldhickory]

You want Ken Waters "Pet Loads".

Yeah, you're right. It's been on my to-get list for some time now. I think I'll do a little shopping now, as a matter of fact.

I just placed an order for it, thanks for the nudge, Bret!

[Dale53]

Miike Venturino and Brian Pearce are two of the best gun righters, ever! John Taffin is an ACE!

I was and am still a BIG fan of Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton. Each and every issue of a magazine will not be exactly what we want.

However, Handloader, has had several EXCELLENT and long time useful articles that I have printed out and keep handy.

Several fairly recent examples include Brian Pearce's article on the RCBS 40-270-SAA (our Group Buys on this alone amounted to around 150 hollow point and solid moulds). Having serious loading data for three strength levels of .45 Colt revolvers is tremendously useful.

Another great article was Pearce's introduction of the "new" Ruger .44 Lipsey Special. I bought one and it is EVERYTHING that Brian said it was.

Mike Venturino's recent series on WW II firearms is VERY helpful to those that are "stuck" in that time warp. That does not happen to be my area of interest but I have LOTS of memories of the guns that were brought home after WW II. I and many of my friends got great use of these surplus arms including the later issues from the DCM. Some still are using these and Mike's information is very helpful.

Mike's constant coverage of bullet casting over the past thirty years has been helpful. He has been a CONSTANT in BPCR Silhouette for many years. I shot BPCR Silhouette until my eyes went south and I can tell you from personal experience that Mike has shared his experiences truthfully and in great detail to OUR benefit. I have never met Mike, to my detriment, but have talked several times with his compadre, Steve Garbe. Steve is another of the knowledgeable types who has been a great asset to the shooting community.

There was a period right after Dave Wolfe sold the magazine that the magazines took a down turn. However, these days, Handloader is doing juet fine, in my estimation.

I do not in anyway downplay the information available on this forum. The cast bullet shooter benefits by having BOTH.

Dale53

[Wayne Smith]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Mike's latest, questioning even our standard assumptions and proving that every gun is it's own expert. Of course, he didn't go quite so far as to say exactly that but it was obvious in his results.

[AZ-Stew]

I'm also a Mike V. fan. Not so much Brian Pierce, and I think it's past time for Taffin to retire. If you pay attention to Taffin's writings, he (probably due to his aging eyes) has reduced the distance at which he does his shooting to the point where ANY handgun's groups would look good. In addition, if you look at the photos of the groups he shoots, and compare the hole diameters with the numbers he reports for group size, it appears that he's measuring from the inside edges of the two holes closest together, rather than from the centers of the two holes farthest apart.

As others have said, Mike's writing and reporting on the results of his shooting are honest. He is the only writer in American Handgunner and Guns that doesn't have typo's, grammatical errors, etc., etc. in his articles. That makes them easy to read. I don't have to try to figure out what he's saying. Pure, plain English.

P.S. I might also add that Mike's fixation with milsurps is what caused me to buy a 1917 "Enfield" at the last gun show. See it under the military rifles section, titled "My new MILSURP". It looked really good from the outside, and I have hopes for it as a boolit shooter, but it's taking me forever to get the copper out of it. Looking down the bore, I have reservations. It looks a little rough, but until the patches stop coming out green/blue, I won't know. At this point, I'm almost tempted to get some valve grinding compound and fire lap it. I have a Garand and a Carbine, but I wanted a bolt action boolit shooter.

I, too, grew up in my shooting with Keith, Jordan, Skelton and Milek. They were my mentors. In the early 70s there were no family members or "the old guy down the street" to take me under their wing and teach me about shooting and handloading. No Internet, no public forums for the exchange of gun knowledge. I had to read, experiment and shoot to gain knowledge. I was fortunate enough to meet Bill Jordan at the 1982 NRA convention in Phoenix and had him sign my copy of "No Second Place Winner", but never had a chance to swap lies with him. I wouldn't have been up to the task, anyway.

BTW, has anyone noticed that Mike V. hasn't posted here since July? Has anyone heard from him or seen postings in other forums? Just curious.

Regards,

Stew

[Von Gruff]

I had become disolusioned with nearly all the gun mags about the time I discovered the wider range of informative subjects on a number of forums like this one. I stopped G&A first then gradually through the list and Rifle and Handloader were the last although I do visit thier website each month to see what is on offer and am rarely tempted by the contents list.
I now visit 4 forums daily and 2 more weekly and the best thing is that I always find interesting posts.

Von Gruff.

[waksupi]

I imagine Mike, like many of the members, have a pretty full shooting schedule in the summer months, and I know he also shoots competition through the winter. I imagine you will see more of him once the snow flies.

[GRid.1569]

Venturino has been at Handloader for some time. He's a hero to some here. I guess every gun board wants to have a "famous" writer come around once in a while.

And by being here adds validation to the (true) art of cast(ing) boolits....:bigsmyl2:

Keep the faith.......

[GRid.1569]

We should all get together and every month contribute informative writings to produce a magazine that is not just about casting, but guns and shooting in general. It would be a dang good mag! I guess there already is an online version here.

That's how "Target Shooter" started in the UK... our paid for publication failed through lack of volumne and the faithful started this...

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/

Good people ( just like all of you) trying to keep us all going....

My thanks to you all......

[JIMinPHX]

Mr. Venturino has published a great deal of useful information both here & in printed periodicals. I think that he does a good job of it.

I haven't read any of the printed magazines in quite some time now.

[Eutectic]

I have every issue of "Handloader" from #1 on; starting from the mid 60's. And I am thinking seriously of cancelling my subscription when it comes due.... This should be a strong message all by itself.

I won't badmouth the writers other than shotgun reloading; the content has just changed... Nothing new or innovating as before. I could care less about "How my .270 shoots with the new triple-shock."
There is NO shotshell guru since Don Zutz and Wally Labiski died either! They're out there but "Handloader" can seem to find them! My wife knows more about shotshell reloading than some of the more recent attempts I've read.
Back in the 60's I started with the "Handloader" because it was different. You could learn new tricks most every issue. It was interesting... It was technical.... I suspect I will quit on the very same premise; now it is just the lack of it...

Eutectic

[tonyjones]

I have subscribed to many gun magazines over the years (decades) and now I subscribe to none. The last three to go were Rifle, Handloader and Precision Shooting. I agree that Mike Venturino and Brian Pearce are knowledgeable, honest and write well enough, however, the magazines are not what they used to be.
I have a friend that writes for several well known gun magazines. I will not mention his name because all of you would recognize the magazines and many of you would recognize his name. About a year ago we were having lunch and discussing guns and hunting. I complained that gun magazines were no longer worth reading if one's interests were primarily technical in nature. My friend then told me that in the gun magazine publication industry the advertisers were increasingly influencing and in some cases controlling content. Based upon what I've been seeing and reading I agree with him.
Advertising rates are determined by subscribers (numbers) and subscriber demographics (average age, income, etc.). Considering this and the number of people who dream of shooting a deer at 597 ranged yards and all the wannabe SWAT/snipers among the potential readership we should not be surprised.
Regards,
Tony

[Olevern]

This is the guy who calls himself "the Duke". Sorry, there was only one "Duke", and he ain't him. Just saying.

[9.3X62AL]

Tony's text saved me a bunch of typing. I enjoy Mike V's work very much, but no longer subscribe to HL. I do pick it up at Barnes & Noble--most issues, at least. As pointed out above, it arrives on book shop shelves long before subscribers receive it by mail.

[David2011]

I guess I should elaborate on my dislike of Mike Venterino as a writer for Handloader.

Mike, I feel, has long ago stagnated in his handloading efforts. The reloading recipes he publishes are the same he has printed for years. His recent flood of articles on his recently acquired military submachine guns (at the cost(admittedly) of some of his once beloved N-Frames) has left me perplexed. While some (many?) may have an interest in these inaccurate bullet hoses, I do not see a correlation to precision handloading.


So, Mike's need for handloads is different from yours. Mine ammo needs probably are different, too. I would have to say that since the bulk of my handloads go through the STI in my avatar I would say it's closer to a bullet hose than a precision instrument as well. It's a lot of work to produce ammunition that will run flawlessly week after week at matches. Every round destined for a match is polished, sized in a Magma Case Master Jr., polished again, loaded, checked for OAL, wiped down with a solvent to get the boolit lube off of the boolit and case, run through a Dillon case gage and finally marked so I can identify my brass after the match. If it shoots better than 4" at 50 yards that's great but reliability is number one. (In reality it shoots quite well.) That's my precision. I've never attempted to load for a submachinegun but suspect that it requires its own level of precision in order to function reliably. Precision can mean something different to every person. I'm thrilled with a slightly heavy 6.5x55 rifle I built that will shoot 1/3 inch groups at 100 yd. That's a fairly precision instrument but would not come close to satisfying a benchrest shooter. Not everyone wants to be a benchrest shooter.

I have to respect the guy that can get a 60 or 80 year old subgun to run reliably with cast handloads. He has accomplished as much for his pursuit as the shooter who shoots one ragged hole groups has accomplished for paper punching.

Even Skeeter probably published an article that I wasn't that interested in but I still cherish the memory of his fine writing. Mike, I enjoy your articles.

David

[longranger]

American Rifleman was the worst magazine that ever hit my mail box,19 articles on the plastic semi auto handguns and 1 dealing with a rifle.
There is nothing new in the bullet making world just different alloys to play with.
I will always be one of 20 or so fans of Mr. Venturino.

[Rocky Raab]

Consider this:

If Mike had stuck to writing about SA and DA revolvers, many readers would be complaining that he never does anything new.

If he wrote only about BPCR, many would complain that he writes for a tiny niche market.

If he wrote only about cast bullets, many would complain that most of the world doesn't cast and shoots only jacketed bullets.

But he doesn't. Think about this: he can and does write authoritatively about ALL of those fields, PLUS his new endeavor with milsurp guns. There aren't many writers who have so broad and so deep a base of expertise. I say he deserves admiration and kudos.

[Bullshop]

In defence of American Rifleman they have had a couple very good articles in the past few months written by Harry Selby. Very enjoyable stuff about his time spent guiding for Robert Ruark.

[AZ-Stew]

In defense of American Rifleman they have had a couple very good articles in the past few months written by Harry Selby. Very enjoyable stuff about his time spent guiding for Robert Ruark.

Absolutely no offense intended, Bullshop, but the "hunt Africa" articles in any magazine are the ones I pass up immediately. I realize the Dark Continent is a big draw for many, but I just never caught the bug. If I'm going to shoot something, I want to eat it. I have no desire to eat an elephant, cape buffalo, hippo, lion or almost anything else that lives there. In addition, with the constant political unrest there, I don't want to be caught in the middle. There's nothing there I need, so those articles mean nothing to me.

As I said, no offense intended. It just goes to show how folks have different tastes. I also have little desire to read about the latest plastic auto pistol, the latest aluminum black rifle (I own one, but don't want to read about someone else's), and the American Rifleman has really gotten under my skin lately by running half- or full-page ads all the way up until the staples in the middle of the mag. There is very little of substance until the staples, except for Chris Cox's legislative stuff (excellent, I might add). Their military firearms and military history articles are top-notch. They're the best parts of the mag.

That said, Handloader and Rifle are starting to irritate me with ads in the middle of an article that hawk the subject of the article. That's a bit over the top.

Regards,

Stew

[Bent Ramrod]

Ken Howell still posts on 24 hr Campfire. He has talked of the glory days of Rifle and Handloader magazines often. IIRC he said they were started by a consortium which was comprised Vernon Speer, Joyce Hornady and Fred Huntington, who saw it as a way of popularizing reloading and the shooting of homemade loads.

The magazine(s) ran at a loss for years, and, if my between-the-lines reading is accurate, they subsisted through the journal-of-record time period only because they paid their writers on the scale of nominal to peanuts, including the staff writers. All those specialized articles got them a core audience of rabid fanatics but had little traction for the average gun owner, whose main concerns still remain his poorly-sighted .30-30 just before deer season, whether the .30-06 is better than the .270, and whether the 9mm is better than the .38 Spl, along with what's new on the market. By the way, the average gun owner of which I speak is not the average person who owns guns and shoots them and to some statistical extent evolves into specialty niches, this is the gun owner "averaged" over all time, sort of like the "twentysomethings" that movies and TV shows are pitched at. The individuals in this class may eventually grow up and may even crack a book or a Kindle, but the theater audience remains the same average age, gawping at the same stuff.

Actually, it looked to me at the beginning like Rifle was going to become basically a bench-rest enthusiast's magazine, if not the official organ of the NBRSA. Fortunately, they seemed to read the tea leaves and went for a somewhat larger audience.

Green Frog is right; we're a very rarefied audience by now, and the magazines we would find worth subscribing to are all quarterlies and one or two bimonthlies. At least Rifle and Handloader do show up on the magazine racks so we can inspect before buying. There is still the occasional good (or even great) article, and I see John Barsness is back in the fold after a couple years' absence. He seems pretty solid as an experimenter and writer, as does Mike V. and Brian P.

[Heavy lead]

I've let my sub's for Rifle, Handloader, and S.Hunter slide too, but pick up HL at the gunstore. I don't shoot much the same stuff as Mike V. but really enjoying reading his stuff even though I don't share the same shooting interests for the most part. That's the fun of reading , learning and the historical aspect he brings to the milsurps are refreshing and needed to keep the History alive IMO. Brian Pearce's articles are what prompted me to start casting a few years ago. I really miss Ross Seyfried, and John Barsness. I still have quite a few reference articles I keep at the reloading bench from Pearce, Mike V., Ross and a couple shotgun reloading articles from Zutz.
Face it, the internet and the information, both good and bad and the instant gratification that comes from it have changed periodicals. It's brought newspapers to their knees. Soon all advertisers will just use Facebook, it's almost free and works for the groupie mentality that is sweeping the world.
Another thing I appreciate about Mike, is on a couple of occasions I've asked him particuliar questions on threads he's very considerate by answering, and helpful answers at that. And in a gentlemanly way as well.

[mongo]

I read Mikes story in the last handgunner about single action revolvers that shoot to the left, He took a pair of pliers and adjusted the windage. I just purchased a New Ruger vaquero in .357 mag. You guessed it, it shoots about 2 inches to the left. I filed down the front site and elevation is perfect for my 158gr cast boolits. Tomorrow I am giong to the range with a padded pair of pliers and following Mikes example and adjust my windage. Hope it doesnt snap off.

[4296]

The bullet hoses I referred to are submachine guns, not vintage bolt guns. I shoot 303, 8mm, 7.62x54, etc. in vintage firearms. They all are capable of outstanding accuracy with experimentation- which a good publication (like the old Handloader) was able to help minimize with writers personal (and ongoing) shared experiences. While these efforts still exist, they have become more and more rare in print nowadays. Dont get me wrong, I love the experimentation I conduct, but as my firearm collection grows I yearn for info to get me shooting the best I and my firearms can in a reasonable amount of time and (costly) components.

[Bullshop]

AZ Stew
I am more enjoying the history than anything else. From Harry we get the story without the pro writer flair.
Mongo
If you have a barrel vice or maybe a pipe wrench which ever you prefer you can often times correct the problem of shooting left by tightening, screwing in the barrel just a bit.

[HeavyMetal]

MOngo:
Before you did any filing you should have called Customer sevice at Ruger and complained.

This was, and still is, a warranty issue. I understand it might take a little convincing but if the manufacturer does not know his product is broke how can he fix it??

That is the main reason a warranty is provided: not to fix your "problem" but to alert the maker he has one so he can fix it in production.

At least that is the theory!

[mustanggt]

There are thousands of new shooters and reloaders looking for information in all kinds of places. Because of that these magazines are trying to appeal to them. We've seen alot of the same articles done and redone over the years but they haven't. We all have different tastes in firearms and they change over time. MLV's tastes and interests have changed over the years just like ours and he's discovering new things along the way which have helped me and have provided alot of enjoyment. I've dropped some magazines just because they are reduntant to other ones I subscribe to. Handloader is my most favorite. All of the Wolfe publications are much better than all the rest in my opinion. We should want the new people to get up to speed and enjoy this great hobby like we have for years. I'm always thirsty for knowledge and look for it everywhere I can find it. If I were a new shooter I would defintely appreciate having those resources.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I've probably known Mike twenty years or a bit longer. He does good work. I still haven't figured out the fascination with squirt guns, but I got enough of that to suit me in three tours of duty in RVN.
Two trips to Africa and two Double Rifles, that's me lately.

Handloader and Rifle are about all that's left worth buying these days.

Rich
DRSS

[Bret4207]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Mike's latest, questioning even our standard assumptions and proving that every gun is it's own expert. Of course, he didn't go quite so far as to say exactly that but it was obvious in his results.

Yup, I made a post in Handguns here about that hoping for a reply. He uses binary alloys. I think the act differently than the tersh, terit, tertear.......3 part alloys we use. I queried him on his thoughts but he hasn't been by. Some of his testing doesn't match up with mine, but then I wouldn't expect everything to match up either.

[Bret4207]

American Rifleman was the worst magazine that ever hit my mail box,19 articles on the plastic semi auto handguns and 1 dealing with a rifle.
There is nothing new in the bullet making world just different alloys to play with.
I will always be one of 20 or so fans of Mr. Venturino.

Assuming you mean cast, that's the attitude that is holding so many people back. The basics are the same as they were 100 years ago. It's the art part, the fine points and the old wives tales that are changing. Between the CBA and this site many of those ideas have been put to bed. Now if we could get a few mainstream magazine articles extolling just how simple, effective and enjoyable this really is...maybe things would change and people would stop saying, "There is nothing new in the bullet making world just different alloys to play with."

[Bret4207]

Ken Howell still posts on 24 hr Campfire. He has talked of the glory days of Rifle and Handloader magazines often.

I PM'd with Ken over there a few years back. Got the skinny on some folks in the industry and some tales to with it. I'd love to have the chance to talk with him in person.

[cajun shooter]

Olevern, Before you decide to put down on some one that uses a nick name or does anything that is different than you, I suggest that you do some research!! The name "DUKE" used by Mike is the name of a horse that he owned. He cared a lot about the horse and decided to use the name as a handle. I'll be willing to bet money that you have something about you that a lot of people don't care about, maybe one of them just showed up. Take Care

[10 ga]

"Chillwren, chillwren, STOP IT! DO YOU WANT ME TO COME OVER THERE?" I think you know what that means! 10

[MT Gianni]

I believe that Rifle and Handloader filled a real niche when Lyman stopped printing loads from handloaders in their old loading manuals. It ended around #42-43 or so. Things change and we vote with our wallets, I like handloader now more than I did in the mid 90's but if i miss an issue it isn't the end of the world.

[Dale53]

I happen to like Handloader magazine. If I were still shooting rifles, I would probably say the same for Rifle magazine (vision problems have ended my rifle shooting).

I haven't seen anyone mention getting these magazines in Electronic form. You can get the THREE Wolfe magazines electronically for the price of ONE subscription.

They remain on your computer with instant access and you don't have to store them to have them available, like you do with regular magazines.

Just a thought...

Dale53

[Rocky Raab]

Just a word to explain or clarify the issue of product ads and articles appearing together.

What happens is this: the editorial staff chooses articles to print. The marketing/advertising staff then calls the product maker and advises them that an article about their product will run in the Jantober issue, and offers them ad space. They usually buy that space, AND pay an exorbitant surcharge to have it placed near the article.

That's how the magazine stays in business. Subscription/newsstand sales only pay a small fraction of production costs.

[AZ-Stew]

He uses binary alloys. I think the act differently than the tersh, terit, tertear.......3 part alloys we use.

Tertiary??

Regards,

Stew

[AZ-Stew]

Just a word to explain or clarify the issue of product ads and articles appearing together.

What happens is this: the editorial staff chooses articles to print. The marketing/advertising staff then calls the product maker and advises them that an article about their product will run in the Jantober issue, and offers them ad space. They usually buy that space, AND pay an exorbitant surcharge to have it placed near the article.

That's how the magazine stays in business. Subscription/newsstand sales only pay a small fraction of production costs.

I have no doubt you're correct, Rocky, but when I see the ad in the middle of the article, it causes me to downgrade the veracity of the article. The concept of "sucking up" immediately takes over my thought train.

Regards,

Stew

[cbrick]

Rocky is probably right but I have to agree with Stew in regards to the effect.

One of the primary reasons I dropped most all of the other gun rags many, many years ago is because all the articles stated that whatever new whiz bang new thing hit the market it's the greatest thing since pop corn . . . if that mfg advertised in that rag. Didn't matter in the least that this whiz bang new thing was pure crappola.

In years past Handloader never did this, they called a spade a spade and crappola simply as crappola.

Times change I guess.

EDIT to add: It would be really great if Wolfe would update their 15 year out of date Master Index. Last I checked they are still offering the Master Index from around 1995 or so. Been a few issues published since then.

Rick

[Bwana]

One of the things that peaked my interest in the minutia of handloading was the Handloading magazine which was carried at only one sporting goods store in Fairbanks and it was the "high dollar gun" store. Didn't bother to look at anything else in the store, and when the clerk saw me coming he laid the latest mag on the counter and rang it up without me having to say anything except "Thank you". That was replaced by a subscription.
Something I have been doing for my co-workers, most of whom are half my age, that are getting into reloading is to lend them some of my vast magazine collection for reading. That way they get the benefit of the excellent writing and material that we don't get now. I figure it's a way to keep "this thing of ours" going and in the right direction.

[GRid.1569]

I haven't seen anyone mention getting these magazines in Electronic form. You can get the THREE Wolfe magazines electronically for the price of ONE subscription.


And thats a good point... I used to buy almost any US mag I could when on holiday to Florida... Handloader being one...

But when I discovered the online subs version I was delighted... now I can get every edition in the UK...

and even though Successful Hunter isn't really my "thing" I still think it's a great value deal... (and I don't need the reading glasses with this huge monitor either :-P )

[Bret4207]

Tertiary??

Regards,

Stew

Yeah, what Stew said. 3 part.

Just 'cuz I think it don't mean I kin schpell it...

[Rocky Raab]

That's okay. Bwana couldn't spell "piqued" either.

[9.3X62AL]

You guys make me laugh at least once a day. Better than medicine, and no HMO co-pay.

Brother Bret, I think it's pronounced TER-shee-air-ee.

[Bret4207]

Yeah Al, but spell check don't help win yuh kain't schpell it inny wheer neer cloz enuff to git it goin.

[FISH4BUGS]

I guess I should elaborate on my dislike of Mike Venterino as a writer for Handloader. His recent flood of articles on his recently acquired military submachine guns (at the cost (admittedly of some of his once beloved N-Frames) has left me perplexed. While some (many?) may have an interest in these inaccurate bullet hoses, I do not see a correlation to precision handloading.

I know your intent was not to offend, though you almost failed.
I am one of those lover of military submachine guns and own a few. I even own some N frames with my favorite being a 5 screw 29. I shoot cast bullets in all of them. I learned how to cast because of those "inaccurate bullet hoses".
I would ask you to set up a man sized target out 100 yards, and with my Vietnam era Smith & Wesson 76, and I will put every shot into center mass. Don't forget, most of these have a semi setting on the selector, and some even have a three shot burst.
M11 slow fires, UZIs, STens, Grease Guns, Cark Gustavs, Sterlings, and more all have a slow rate of fire that can allow single shots. Have you ever seen a subgun competition?
I don't know those writers. I do know most everything I learned about casting I learned here. I learned about Hensley & Gibbs moulds (thanks Tom) and now own some 15 (or more - I haven't counted lately) of them. I learned about alloying and smelting and now have some 2000lbs of lead to play with.
Just like books, you read some and you like them. You read some and they stink. The solution? Simple - don't buy them.
There are many other sources of information. I am just getting into long range shooting with my 308. The Internet is your friend. Get your google-foo working, man. You can find a ton of stuff.
What is the connection to precision reloading? It is ALL connected, my man.

[StrawHat]

This is the guy who calls himself "the Duke". Sorry, there was only one "Duke", and he ain't him. Just saying.


So which one are you refering to, Wellington, York, Lancaster...?


Actually, a nickname is usually not chosen by the wearer of it but bestowed by those he associates with. It may be resonable or not but when it sticks, it is there for a long time. To my GrandPop, I was Duke until the day he died, but no one else called me that.

If you are refering to John Wayne, wasn't he given that nickname by some firefighters? Something ablout his dog?

But back to the OP. I too have quit my subscription to all the gun rags. At this point in time, I have no new toys to work up loads for and have settled on one or maybe two loads for what I do use. The days of going to the range for a full day of reloading and testing are gone. Heck the days of going to a rnage are getting fewer and fewer. So I have found the loads that work and prefer to use them rather than try to find something that works better but takes time away from something else. Perhaps it is the same with Mike V? If so, I can certainly understand that.

[Bret4207]

Lets remember John "Duke" Waynes real name was Marion Morrisey or Morrison. Kind of puts things in perspective, eh?

[MtGun44]

Guys, the world has changed and the old niche that the OLD Handloader (was subscribing
in the middle 70s) filled is now filled by - - - - - THIS WEB BOARD.

Think about it. WE are doing the articles, in a better and much more interactive format,
that Neal Knox used to find and print for us in the plain-jane old versions of Handloader.

As has been pointed out - newbies need some place to start to feed their love for guns
and shooting. Mass market mags do that. Personally, I subscribe to ALL of them for
fun and partially to keep them in business so that the next generation has the best possible
chance to become 'infected' the same way I did.

Consider that when you get nasty about how irrelevant and crappy the newstand mags
are. Wonder how we all got hooked on shooting -- by reading newstand mags when that
was all that there was. Now many of us are old timers and pretty much experts in our
own areas so we may not appreciate an article tilted towards a new guy that is just learning
about guns.

As far as the current Handloader goes - I love Brian Pierce and Mike Venturino's articles,
and Terry Wiegand (is that the correct name?) is growing on me. Good writing and a strong
interest in expensive and beautiful old rifles that I will never be able to afford to own or
even shoot. He kinda reminds me of Ross, but he has a different take on things.

Bill

[44man]

ALL of the rags have gone overboard with expensive stuff. I don't want to read about $7,000 guns or $50,000 hunts. I don't care about Africa or Alaska or going to 50 states in a year to kill an animal in each. I could care less about $3 a shot ammo because I will never use it.
I will never own one full auto gun let alone a pile of them so who cares?
Most of us own a Rem, Win or Ruger. Maybe one tenth of 1% like the expensive articles.
This is where the rags have gone wrong, they have strayed from the common man. I hate it when they show a pistol and tell you it is ONLY $4,000. Same with a scope that costs $3,000, Just how nuts do they think we are?

[Rocky Raab]

I grin wryly as I observe that the photos in Playboy don't look like our wives, either! Some of the articles and photo spreads in gun magazines are there for us to drool over, for sure.

I think Handloader has a decent spread of articles. There's usually one about a new powder, and another re-capping an older one. There's a classic cartridge historical review (though I do wish they'd put a bit more reloading info in them), a variety of rifle and handgun articles, and enough general interest material to keep me a happy subscriber. It's the ONLY periodical I save for years.

And don't gritch about the ads too much. There are ads in there for products and services you simply can't find anywhere else, from components to custom gunsmith services. Again, worth perusing every month.

[sergeant69]

44man hit the nail on the head! dead square. and what i really don't get, excuse my ignorance, is the "experience" of shooting a zebra. isn't that just a horse w/stripes? are there attack zebras in africa? pitting urself against dangerous game up close i can see. hunting for meat i can understand (i do it). but shooting a stripped horse for fun then posing w/pics in the article w/the killer zebra? what am i missing here? enlighten me.

[Rocky Raab]

From what I read and from talking to guys who have hunted in Africa, almost all the meat goes to the trackers and their village. Some is eaten in camp, also.

BTW, a zebra skin makes an outstanding trophy, and is one of the least expensive "mounts" so many hunters take one as part of their plains animals quota.

[tonyjones]

In Meditations on Hunting Jose Ortega e Gasset wrote "One does not hunt to kill, rather, one kills to have hunted." We hunt for various reasons. For me, hunting is a direct tie to my/our hunter-gatherer ancestors. It is "in the blood." It is a link to mankind's origins. The earliest human remains have been found in the Great Rift Valley of East Africa. This is also where hunting originated. Taking a Zebra, or any animal, for that matter on a fair chase spot and stalk hunt is not necessarily as easy as some might think. Besides, I like my Zebra skin rug. It's beautiful and is a reminder of the hunt as well as my respect for the animal.
Hunting in Africa is not cheap. Elephant, lion,rhino,bongo, Lord Derby Eland, mountain nyala and a few others are expensive to very expensive. However, one can do a 10 to 14 plains game safari for $12 to $15K and that is all in (airfare, tips, taxidermy). One can spend more than that in pursuit of a B&C 200 class whitetail and that does not include travel and taxidermy.
Tha sounds of an African night can be extraordinary. The amount of wildlife to be seen is stunning. It is way beyond cool to have more than a million acres to yourself, the hunting staff and the wildlife in it's natural world. For me, this is a near religious experience.
Best regards,
Tony

[Tazman1602]

Yep, Dishwasher safe.

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/glocks-in-the-dishwasher.jpg

'da Kid

My wife saw this post and said to tell you if you are married you are playing with DEATH.

I got caught 25 years ago with a set of racing pistons in the same place and I STILL hear about it today.............

Art

[AZ-Stew]

ALL of the rags have gone overboard with expensive stuff. I don't want to read about $7,000 guns or $50,000 hunts. I don't care about Africa or Alaska or going to 50 states in a year to kill an animal in each. I could care less about $3 a shot ammo because I will never use it.
I will never own one full auto gun let alone a pile of them so who cares?
Most of us own a Rem, Win or Ruger. Maybe one tenth of 1% like the expensive articles.
This is where the rags have gone wrong, they have strayed from the common man. I hate it when they show a pistol and tell you it is ONLY $4,000. Same with a scope that costs $3,000, Just how nuts do they think we are?

15 or so years ago, when I was doing hunter education for the AZ Dept. of Game and Fish, I participated in presenting the course for the Wild Sheep Federation (or whatever its correct name is) when they held their convention in Phoenix. The Desert Bighorn is the hardest tag to get for the Grand Slam, so we offered the course to give the participants an opportunity to gain an additional point in the tag drawing. There were hunters from all over the world in that class, and they didn't win the convention trip on "The Price Is Right". Anyway, as I strolled through the exhibit hall, looking at the offerings of the vendors, I was astounded at the huge variety of high $$ guns, accessories and guided hunts of all sorts that were offered. SOMEONE is paying for all that stuff, so there is obviously a pretty large base of well-heeled folks out there wealthy enough to buy it. I drool over some of it, and laugh at the exorbitance of the others when I see them in the magazines. To me, a REALLY high $$ firearm is a Beretta Silver Pigeon V 20ga, which is on my bucket list (mid-$3,000s). Anything over that is thought vapor. But there is a market for that stuff, so the magazines present it.


I grin wryly as I observe that the photos in Playboy don't look like our wives, either! Some of the articles and photo spreads in gun magazines are there for us to drool over, for sure.

And imagine the cost of THOSE! :holysheep

Regards,

Stew

[AZ-Stew]

That's okay. Bwana couldn't spell "piqued" either.

Yeah, Rocky, I saw it too, but didn't mention it. Bret appeared to be asking for help. Bwana didn't. In addition, Bwana could have been saying that it caused his interest to go to its highest point, rather than just arousing his attention. I believe some folks here think of me as a spelling/gramar Nazi, so I let it pass.

Regards,

Stew

[mustanggt]

Rocky I like the Playboy reference. I am often showing the guys at work the magazines I give to them as gun centerfolds or gunporn. There is something in this hobby for everyone and just because a certain magazine doesn't have what you like 100% of the time doesn't mean it doesn't have value for someone. It is after all trying to cater to as large an audiance as possible. That's how they all make a living. I would love to do that for a living. Testing all those cool guns and gear. Doing all the load workups and learning about guns I've never heard of or have never seen. Who wouldn't want to do that for a living. But the great thing about life is you have choices you can make. You can choose to read and buy or not, it's up to you. We are blessed with an almost unlimited supply of information with the internet so it can fill alot of niches that magazines can not. I can't take my computer with me so a magazine is way more convenient.

[Leadmelter]

I just renewed my subscription to "Handloader". I enjoy reading every issue and find a few good tips. As for the ads, I like to see what is being developed.
I have hit the wall for time being on needing more stuff. Last winter, I tried to inventory everything and did not get it done.
As for the big $$ hunters, I work with a few Radiologist who will lay down $10-20K for a hunt or fishing trip to New Zealand. I just say, how about some meat.
To each there own, I say. I run into enough yuppie gun snobs who have the lastest AR abortion. That is fine as long you are supporting the sport as a whole.
We are in this all together against all the SOB and BOBs who would walk into your house and take all your stuff in the name of security. What is that?
I will be slinging lead this weekend and encourage everyone else to do the same.
GJP
MI

[Bwana]

"That's okay. Bwana couldn't spell "piqued" either"

Thanks Rocky,
That's what I get for using a word that I seldom ever say and can't remember the last time I saw in print.

[Rocky Raab]

Mustanggt, you may not believe it, but when you do all that load workup and range testing as a job, it quickly becomes - a job. Unless you are a VERY big name writer, there are few if any "perks" to speak of. No writer gets free guns (contrary to common belief) and almost everything we test has to be shipped back; sometimes after a very short time, too.

I've been fortunate to get generous support from powder and bullet companies for lengthy tests. I simply couldn't afford to do many 3,000-round cartridge reports on my own dime. My piece for Handloader is a good example. I asked for and received plated bullets from Berry's and Rainier in two calibers each. I used powder, primers and brass from my own inventory, and my own guns. It took me four trips to the range to do the shooting, and I shot all four chamberings each time, with multiple loads. Every shot was over the chronograph and for group. From Start loads to final accuracy/maximum loads, I burned up just under 1,000 rounds. The writing, editing, photo taking and other tasks took a full work week. For all that, I'll make a few hundred bucks but only after the article gets printed. I ought to just about break even - if I don't count the thousand bucks or so I spent going to SHOT!

Like the man said, this wouldn't be worth it if it weren't for the glamor, LOL! (I'm not crying on anybody's shoulder here, just putting things in perspective. I love to write, I love to reload, and this "gum wiper" gig allows me to do both. No complaints.)

[sergeant69]

From what I read and from talking to guys who have hunted in Africa, almost all the meat goes to the trackers and their village. Some is eaten in camp, also.

BTW, a zebra skin makes an outstanding trophy, and is one of the least expensive "mounts" so many hunters take one as part of their plains animals quota.

so...."cheap and easy" seems to be the goal (meat for the camp and village aside) for shooting the horse. got it!

[sergeant69]

In Meditations on Hunting Jose Ortega e Gasset wrote "One does not hunt to kill, rather, one kills to have hunted." We hunt for various reasons. For me, hunting is a direct tie to my/our hunter-gatherer ancestors. It is "in the blood." It is a link to mankind's origins. The earliest human remains have been found in the Great Rift Valley of East Africa. This is also where hunting originated. Taking a Zebra, or any animal, for that matter on a fair chase spot and stalk hunt is not necessarily as easy as some might think. Besides, I like my Zebra skin rug. It's beautiful and is a reminder of the hunt as well as my respect for the animal.
Hunting in Africa is not cheap. Elephant, lion,rhino,bongo, Lord Derby Eland, mountain nyala and a few others are expensive to very expensive. However, one can do a 10 to 14 plains game safari for $12 to $15K and that is all in (airfare, tips, taxidermy). One can spend more than that in pursuit of a B&C 200 class whitetail and that does not include travel and taxidermy.
Tha sounds of an African night can be extraordinary. The amount of wildlife to be seen is stunning. It is way beyond cool to have more than a million acres to yourself, the hunting staff and the wildlife in it's natural world. For me, this is a near religious experience.
Best regards,
Tony

the fact that "one " is willing to spend in excess of 15K to rent a million acres to spend a night alone to experience a way cool religious experience and consider it a "natural world" just about explains it all to me. makes sense now. thanks.

[AZ-Stew]

I learned from reading an article yesterday in Rifle Magazine that the Civil War ended at Appomattox in 1864. You learn something new every day from these publications.

Regards,

Stew

[mongo]

Bullshop, Thanks for the advise on the ruger vaquero, I was sitting at the range with a pair of vice grips looking at the front site, Im my mind i could see the front site breaking off, I went home and cut a couple blocks of wood and using some rosin and a vice cranked the barrel down a wee bit, using magic marker lines for reference, And now that pistol is dead on. Tom

[bhn22]

The purpose of magazines is to sell you something. Granted, you can get some good information from magazines, but you have to pay for it. First, someone has to buy the magazine (me). These magazines are loaded with advertising . All magazines have advertising, many of the stories you read seem to be advertising copy in story format. This rifle did this, I used this bullet and got perfect performance, I used this scope and saw God. But not all gunwriters are copy writers, though. some have a more serious mission. Yup, they're there to sell you magazines , which are loaded with, you guessed it... advertising . The cycle repeats, over and over. I'm certain the publishers make far more on advertising than they do on subscriptions. I once checked out an issue of handloader that was just shy of 50% advertising, as measured by the column. I no longer subscribe to any magazines.

[Heavy lead]

The purpose of magazines is to make a profit, it's that simple. It is much harder now to make a profit, advertising does not work like it once did, the cost to run a business, any business is much harder as the employees and employers have the overhead of entitlements hanging around their necks.
I'd not want to be in the business of any print business right now, it is simply antiquated technology, like it or not. In my lifetime I'm sure (I'm 44) most periodicals, newspapers and most print books will be gone, replaced by a notebook, smartphones and maybe a kindle.

[Bullshop]

Mongo
I am so glad that worked. I was seeing the same picture of the broken front sight.
I did the barrel tighten fix to a fixed sight Freedom Arms. Them people want a fortune to do anything to fix one of thier guns.
Sometimes the most simple things just seem to evade our thoughts.

[spqrzilla]

Most gun magazines disappoint me as I find they are full of half-baked nonsense, utter fabrication and far too much simple copying from the manufacturers' press releases.

To date, Handloader is obviously suffering from the struggles of all magazines in the current economy and some of that shows in editorial content but its the least disappointing in the industry.