Alloy decision

[kbstenberg]

I am looking for opinions on the killing potential of my loads. I am hunting Whitetails all shots are75y. or less at standing animals from tree stands an all shots are through the shoulders.
My test loads were Unique 11-11.5-12gr, bullet is Lee 30cal 150gr strait WW with a GC. My accuracy is best with 12gr. load.
I tested all 3 loads for expansion. This is where I'm having a problem. Yardage is 25y. shooting into wet telephone books, 14 inches thick. All of my loads are going through the wet paper through the 2 by6 into the backup log behind it all. Unrecoverable. Ya i can tell theres enough penetration but i am concerned there is little expansion. I don't want to blow through both shoulders without doing any damage.
Should i try a softer alloy say 75/25 for a little exp. an less penetration? Or stick with what i have. Although if i go with the softer alloy i can cast, load an shoot some more. YIPPEE
OH the deer are not in the tree stand I am.
Keep the silver stream flowing Kevin

[94Doug]

You could go to a mix of 50/50 w/w and pure lead I would guess at that loading. Also HP-ing the mould is an option.

Doug

[mdi]

FWIW; Not an avid hunter here, but I have read that a bullet with a large meplate does a lot of tissue damage without the need for a lot of expansion. What cartridge?

[44man]

You NEED some expansion and a two part boolit would be best to maintain accuracy. But try softening the boolits to see what you get.
Once you get too hard with small calibers or even large calibers shot too fast, you are shooting deer with full metal jackets. Even a WFN shot too fast will not work.

[epj]

FWIW; Not an avid hunter here, but I have read that a bullet with a large meplate does a lot of tissue damage without the need for a lot of expansion. What cartridge?

Years back I used to load a 173 gr .30 cal bullet in light .30-06 loads. It was extreamly accurate out to 100 yds. or so. It was a Lyman mold. Very large, flat meplate. Believe it was designed to be used in the .30-.30. Never shot any large game with it, but some of the smaller critters that got in the way expired on the spot.

[lwknight]

Paper Patched 40:1 should do the trick nicely.

[Dale53]

I am not a fan of small caliber cast bullet rifles. My preference would be a 45/70.

That said, lwknight's suggested to use a soft, paper patched bullet has MUCH merit...

Dale53

[kbstenberg]

The bullet is out of a 30/30.
With the majority saying softer. I think i will heat up the pot an try 75/25.
I don't have any exp. with paper patching so ill have to forget that option.
Season opens in 4 weeks so i better get going.
Thanks all. Keep that silver stream flowing. Kevin

[stubert]

Have you done a hardness test? What BHN is it now?

[Good Cheer]

Hey kbstenberg.
Have you tried going with the slowest possible powder?

The reason I ask that is that vertical stringing will be much less of a problem if the shots are going to be limited to 75yds. A slow, slow powder (slower than would be efficient with a jacketed bullet) can sometimes be successfully used to limit the pressure on a wheel weight base, giving higher velocities without over powering the bullet. Are you shooting micro-groove?

[Larry Gibson]

I suggest the WW/lead 50/50 alloy also. I also suggest upping the velocity of your 30-30 load with 18 gr of 4759 with a 1/2 gr dacron filler. That will run 1800+ fps out of a 20" barrel and 1900+ fps out of a 24" barrel. Velocity is then sufficient to give excellent expansion at the ranges you are talking. I use that combo with the RCBS 30-150-FN and the GB 150 gr WFN out of my M94 carbine and M94AE rifle. Your load, if out of a 20" barrel is probably running 1500+ fps.

The terminal effects can be increase a lot by HP'ing the bullets, once loaded, to a depth of 2/3 - 3/4 the length of the nose. Such alloyed cast bullets at such velcoity when put into the boiler room of deer will kill them very efficiently.

Larry Gibson

[TX Jack]

I agree with Larry on the velocity boost. You might also try placing your bullet on the shoulder blade to help expansion and shock effect. Bone fragments do damage too.

[kbstenberg]

Again thank you all. A couple of you have given interesting ideas. I hope to contact some to ask for more inf. i hope nobody minds.
I would like to thank JSIZEMORE again for his help. I was befudaled with a seating prob. with his help an sugestion everything is going well. Credit given where credit due
Keep that silver stream flowing Kevin

[Markbo]

Do you believe that your .30 caliber bullets that do not expand shooting through both lungs will not be effective?

[excess650]

Have you considered casting softnose bullets? Use a 32acp case for the nose dipper and fill the remainder with your normal alloy. Run your alloys and mold hot.

I would prefer a higher velocity load, and heavier bullet. That said, I know of deer taken with 100gr 32-20 factory loads, and they must chrono all of 1200fps.

[onondaga]

Hard lead alloys just pierce the animal and start a slow internal bleed-out while the animal can walk off long distances. I prefer a gas checked, flat nose or hollow point bullets; Half w/w half pure lead is ok but I go softer yet as the gas checks will allow a little more powder and I work up my load with the powder that lists the lowest pressure for the bullet weight I select. That is a great place to start with cast bullets. I only chrono velocity when I work up load till accuracy falls off. then bump it back and chrono to see what I have for velocity at the accuracy peak of my bullet and powder combination.

[Good Cheer]

Hard lead alloys just pierce the animal and start a slow internal bleed-out while the animal can walk off long distances. I prefer a gas checked, flat nose or hollow point bullets; Half w/w half pure lead is ok but I go softer yet as the gas checks will allow a little more powder and I work up my load with the powder that lists the lowest pressure for the bullet weight I select. That is a great place to start with cast bullets. I only chrono velocity when I work up load till accuracy falls off. then bump it back and chrono to see what I have for velocity at the accuracy peak of my bullet and powder combination.

Yeah, what he said.
Absolutely the way to do it.

[grouch]

I get good expansion with lyman 31141 or CBE 309162 and 24-25gr of WC845 and 20:1 lead & tin. Velocity is +/- 1900fps in my 30-30. I'd bet you could do as well with 4895.
Grouch

[Bret4207]

Kevin, if you "blow through both shoulders" the animal should be down right there and dead within a minute or 3 no matter if you have expansion or not. A deer can't move with both front shoulders broken, just not possible. If by "shoulders" you mean a heart/lung shot then I can see the desire for more expansion. In that case move velocity and a softer alloy offer better chances of expansion, but make sure you have a FN to start with, or a blunt RN. I have almost no faith in a tapered RN or pointier design expanding at normal cast velocities (<2000 fps)

[qajaq59]

If this is any help? My 30-30 Lyman #311041 bullet with 50/50 alloy mushrooms up to .580 when shot into sugar sand at 50 yards. The load is 24.5 grs of IMR 3031, so it isn't going super fast.

[kbstenberg]

Again thank u all. I cast up both 75/25, an 50/50 in NOEs .311-165gr bullet. Again i used 12gr Unique. All expansion shots were at 25Y. into wet phone books. This time i got much better results with expansion. My penetration wasn't as good (which i expected) but acceptable.
All bullets expanded from .58 to .63 for both alloys, The 75/25 had a little better weight retention but not by much . Which is what i wanted. An penetration was a consistent 17 inches. So looks like i will be casting some more 75/25 alloy for my hunting this year. Now ill just have to tell the wife you guys made me go back to cast some more. LOL
I will have to start keeping track of how Manny time members of the bullet website have helped with my problems. Officially this will be #1.
Keep that silver stream flowing Kevin

[Papa Jack]

Just a suggestion, if you are using a light load of Unique or what ever, and pointing DOWN from a tree stand. You might want to experiment using a light wad over your powder charge to hold it against the primer.
I like to use two ply TP....I cut one square into 1 " squares and peel the layers apart, press one of these into the case over the powder and tamp it down lightly with a wood dowell or pencil... I use single ply too, what ever I have...LOL
Good Luck "PJ"

[44man]

I see nothing wrong with all of the suggestions, good job fellas! :drinks: