Need VooDoo Man (I Need Patches Read Please!)

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I'm barely keeping my groups in the 9 ring at 50 yards. Granted, I can't see worth ****, but I'm not liking the looks of a few patches that came from my rifle.

Patch material is .008" pillow ticking (off one of my old pillows), compressible to .0075". Load is 70gn Pyrodex FFg.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/Muzzleloading/lanolinmoist.jpg
Lube moistened patch (just enough to feel it)...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/Muzzleloading/lanolinsat2.jpg
Lube saturated patch (can see it standing and wets things it touches...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/Muzzleloading/lanolinsat1.jpg
Same as the second pic...

I was using old T-shirt material, but was told that it was too loosely woven. However, I was getting decent accuracy and it was holding together like the number two and three patches with just spit lubed.

I think this stuff is just old and thin, and blowing apart. I know I find lots of lil' pieces in front of the rifle if they're not saturated.

The balls are supposed to cast at .490", but they mic at .492".

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Josh

[lonewolf5347]

shoot over to walmart and a few yard of blue @ white pillow material .018
I use my own lube but Crisco should be o.k.
take a plastic oil cap (motor oil )and cut circles out of the material runs great size for 50 cal.

[Maven]

Josh, I saw this on the Muzzle Loading Rifle forum and agree with the suggestion [there] that you need to use new and thicker material for your patches. 100% cotton pillow ticking is an excellent choice, as is pocket drill, and calico (probably more expensive because it is printed fabric). Before you choose a particular fabric, examine several bolts and use your micrometer to determine its thickness. You'll also need to know the max. groove diameter of your rifle, subtract the ball diameter (.492"), and then divide that figure by 2. That should get you pretty close and practically eliminate blown patches.

[oldhickory]

You're not alone, I just dusted off my Earl Williams Pa. long rifle the other week and had similar results...Well worse. My patches were shredded to the point of being little strips of barely reconizable cloth laying 20-30' from the bench. I've shot Civil War muskets for 40 yrs. with Minie boolits, but I'm pretty much ignorant when it comes to r-b shooting, my first thought was, just get a LEE .54 Minie mold and live happy ever after, but the rifling in my long rifle is deep...Very deep, and the LEE Minies may not seal, besides it's a traditional long rifle and should shoot r-bs.

Let's see what waksupi and the other r-b guys have to say.

[Dean D.]

Maven pretty much summed up what I would say. The patches you are using currently are way too thin IMO.

Have you tried Moose Milk lube? (1 part water soluble machinist oil and 10 parts water.) I prefer this for range work myself.

[mooman76]

Could try another lube also. I have never used lanolin for BP but sometimes another lube will help. I don't buy material myself. What I do is go through the closet. Old dress shirts usually work well. They have a strong and tight weave. I have used flannel also. Not the best but it works. It isn't as strong but surprising does well. Old BDU material is really strong but a little thick. It does good also. T-shirts arent the best either but some are thick and very strong and could work. Just go throught the closet, pick out a few things to try and take them all out for a sample run.

[10 ga]

Pillow ticking is good and strong, at times I have used cotton duck and heavy muslin too. Wash new fabric before you use it. I hit the yard sales and thrift shops and look for real linen garments. Linen is a good patch material and is usually cheap at the used stuff places. It is usually in ladies pants or jackets. Yeah, looks like you need stronger patches. You might even try some old khaki as long as it is 100% cotton. Don't use anything but natural fiber for patches. Cotton, linen, paper other things will be a problem. 10

[TCLouis]

What I saw in your patches are three different areas in your barrel that are rough enough to cut your patches.
\
Second follow the advice above and git ye down to Wally World and buy a yard of pillow ticking ( that is a BUNCH of patches worth). Wash it to remove the sizing and then lube with 54 beeswax to olive oil or the lube of choice that dries slowly and will not kill the holy black.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Joshua. Take you Micrometer to the store with you, albiet Wal-Mart or a fabric store. .015" to .018" will be the correct thickness for a .492" RB. Be sure to check that the pillow ticking is a tight weave material. Hold it up to the light, a tight weave will have less tiny stars shining through the weave. When seating the ball and patch on the powder don't pound the ball down with the ramrod just seat the ball until you feel the powder crunch. All the pounding does is deform the ball. I have seen this done at Rendevous all the time and when I was younger I out shot most of them. The rear of the soft RB takes enough of a beating when the gun is fired so don't do it to the front of it by beating it with the ramrod.

[northmn]

Some muslins make a good thinner patch, but as a genetral rule I would keep to a 015 minimum to maintain integrity. A good grease also helps, but you need a fairly tight weave for a good patch. I have bought all mine at fabric stores as you can get a yard, sometimes cheaper than those little bags of 100 patches. However the little bags if marked for thickness are a good way to test. Most production 50's are made to shoot a 015 with the 490 RB, but some do better with a 495 and 015 or thicker. When I shot competition I would use the muslin, whcih was about 010-012 in the shallower rifled Numrich barrels with a larger ball and had good results. With the newer deeper rifled barrels I prefer a thicker patch and 020 is not all bad. Too thin a patch can cut on loading. At 50 yards all shot with a RB should be well into the 10 ring. They had to change targets for 50 yard X sticks to a 6 bull.

Northmn

[RugerFan]

What's the twist of your rifling? Too fast of a twist can cut up patches as well.

[405]

My take on "reading" your patches is like other's ideas.

1) Feel your clean bore with a tight fitting patch over a jag. You can feel roughness. If rough, correct it. Lapping will work. Don't over-do the lapping. 2) Ignore your measurements about ball diameter and patch thickness. It can be done but takes experience. Better than the "engineer's" approach for this task is to "feel" how loose or tight your patched ball is as it starts and is run down the bore. Soft lead balls will obturate slightly into the patch material as it is started down the bore. You want to mostly fill the grooves with patch material and impress the fabric weave into the ball on the lands. Too tight isn't necessarily very good nor is too loose. This is where experimentation is used... ball diameter vs patch thickness. 3) Use a good quality, tight weave, tough patch material. Fabrics with synthetics are not good. Cotton pillow ticking is as good as any. It is cheap by the yard at Wally World and most fabric shops. Other tight weave fabrics also work well but avoid the synthetics or synthetic blends! 4) Try lesser powder charge to start... maybe 50 grs FFg or so. 5) Try some felt over-powder wads. They do protect the patch. 6) At the range, try lubing the felt wad (if used) with a drop or two of moose milk and moisten the patch with same.

I quit Pyrodex shortly after it first came out so no recommendations there.