wasp-waist sonic missile- tail

[joejr]

anyone know the age of this bullet box? someone gave me some reloading stuff and this was in it. thanks

[scb]

I remember seeing them in their catalog when I was a kid back in the mid to late '60's

[Larry Gibson]

Would be late '60s or before. Fun bullets but they require the long neck of the '06. I shot all mine up before I got a chronograph in '74. Let me just say that though accurat and deadly on dear they did not seem to flatten the trajectory of the '06 as Herter claimed. His catalogue made for some interesting reading.........to say the least:-)

Larry Gibson

[wallenba]

Strange looking bullet, it is a sound aerodynamic principle referred to as the 'area rule phenomenon' that reduces drag. It was used most notably on the fuselages of the Republic F-105 Thunderchief and the British Buccaneer fighter aircraft.

[AZ-Stew]

I saw them in Herter's catalogs as late as the mid 70s. I never bothered to try to buy any. The GCA 68 made it illegal to sell even components by mail order, let alone loaded ammo. It was the mid 80s before the Gun Owner's Protection act eliminated the restrictions on mail-order component sales. I would have had to go through a dealer to buy these back in the 70s, which would have destroyed any possible cost savings. BTW, this style of bullet was available in a number of different calibers.

Thanks to the Government, Herter's is yet another business destroyed by Federal meddling. You used to be able to buy all components, commercial Mauser actions, stocks to fit them, completed rifles, etc., etc. I watched sorrowfully as Herter's catalog shrank by half in size each year until it disappeared entirely. I wish I still had a couple of the old catalogs. They were extremely entertaining to leaf through. I still have all of the plastic ammo boxes, rifle and handgun, that I bought from Herter's back in 73-75 for in the neighborhood of $0.10 apiece. They're still very serviceable and I continue to use them.

[Dean D.]

I still have the 1964 Herters catalog of Dad's that I grew up drooling over. Very entertaining to go back through. Much better than the old Sears Christmas catalog! :grin:

[Bret4207]

I believe NEI still offers a cast design that duplicates this idea. Interesting concept that didn't work out in practice from what I've read.

[Gee_Wizz01]

I also remember seeing these wasp waist bullets in the Herters catalog back in the late 60's and early 70's. While they look impressive the "area-rule" would not be effective on a bullet. The wasp waist should cut barrel friction as there is less bearing surface in the barrel.

G

[flounderman]

had a couple of friends that shot in the first national bench rest matches. one of them tried the sonic bullets. said the only thing waisted about them was his money. I used to go to herters and they had a back room with the bargains. they had barrels of stocks with flaws. I remember buying a springfield for 3.50, a birdseye mauser for 7.50, and the most expensive one I ever bought back there was a laminated mauser for 15.00. I still have them. sometime back in those days, I remember fajen turning one of my walnut planks into a semifinished blank for 20.00. I never had the money to buy any more than my immediate needs and I guess I thought it would be there forever. I wish I could take a truck back there now at those prices.

[EOD3]

anyone know the age of this bullet box? someone gave me some reloading stuff and this was in it. thanks

I squirrel away LOTS of old stuff since I saw what people were getting for Coke memorabilia. I probably should label it so the kids don't throw it away (or give it away) :D

[TCLouis]

60s- 70s.

Still sold them as late as the 70s anyway.

[1Shirt]

Shot a bunch of them in 06 way way back. Kinda ugly looking critter, but they shot well in my springfield and M-70.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[R.C. Hatter]

:coffeecom I believe those projectiles were sold by Herters in the early to middle 60's.

[threett1]

I have some of those in 270 that I was given at one time. Took me quite a while to find out what they were.

[Rockydog]

threett1, Pics?? My curiosity is getting the better of me. Rockydog

[Trifocals]

I traveled for a business machine company 1961-1964. One of the towns where the company had accounts was Orange City, IA, the home of Hi-Precision Bullet Co.. They supplied the majority of the bullets Herters boxed and private labeled. They ran a double shift at their plant and I visited with the second shift whenever I was in Orange City. I purchased many "seconds" from the factory. Their quality control was outstanding and even "seconds" shot exceptionally well. The Wasp Waisted Sonic bullet design was Herters idea. I eventually became a friend of the owner of Hi-Precision and also visited with Frank DeHaas (Mr. Single Shot) who also resided in Orange City. Frank tested bullets for Hi-precision. He didn't have a very good opinion of the Wasp Waisted Sonic Bullet.

[chris112]

I squirrel away LOTS of old stuff since I saw what people were getting for Coke memorabilia. I probably should label it so the kids don't throw it away (or give it away) :D

Better get it done. When my mom died my youngest sister threw out all of her old spice cans. The spices were no good but the cans are collectors items. She didn't care she just threw them. Once little sister makes up her "mind" there is no changing it short of a baseball bat.

[MtGun44]

NOT a sound aerodynamic principle for a bullet.

The area rule says that to reduce transonic drag (from about Mach .85 to 1.05 or so) a
body should have a nearly constant cross sectional area over most of the length. Of course,
this cannot hold true at the nose or tail. An ordinary bullet meets this requirement, so
has no need to change.

When you add wings to an aircraft, the cross sectional area increases, so you must reduce the
local fuselage cross sectional area at the wing location so the sum of the wing & fuselage cross
sectional area is about the same as the fuselage fwd of the wings and aft of the wings.

With really low thrust jet engines of the 50s, getting thru the transonic high drag area was
difficult without every trick in the book. The unwaisted F-102 prototype could not get thru the
transonic drag to reach Mach 1. A young aerodynamicist named Whitcomb became a big
hero when he postulated the area rule, a new wasp-waisted prototype was built and it
easily exceeded Mach 1. With modern engines this is much less important, the F-22 will
cruise above Mach 1 without the use of afterburners, a first.

It was never a valid principle for a non-winged bullet.

Typical Herter's market hype. I saw these in the 60s in the catalogs, asked my jet pilot
father about them and was told that they were baloney. Didn't undertand why until
I took aerodynamics in college.

[NoDakJak]

Trifocals is 100% right. For a short time Hi-Prescion marketed bullets under theit own name. A gunshop in Visalia, California stocked them and I shot many hundreds of them. The 25 caliber, 100 grain semi-spitzer was the most accurate bullet that I have found for my custom 250 Savage. I stockpiled several hundred of them but alas, fourty years later I have used the last one and I must find a new bullet and load.
I knew Frank for several years before he passed away and we conversed on a large number of subjects. His opinion of the Wasp-Waisted bullet was stated much more emphatically to me than related above. Neil

[Larry Gibson]

I found some (7 boxes) 7mm Herters (Hi-Precision) bullets several years ago at a gunshow and bought all of them. They are very accurate in my sportered M95. Wish they'd had more of them.......

Larry Gibson

[cbunt1]

I've still got most of a box of 'em in .270 that my Dad loaded with. He swore by the design, and was hording his stash when they quit making 'em.

He had a "wallet group" from his REM 700 that you could cover with a dime...he shot it in about '76, and it was a load he developed right there on the bench, one round at a time...

I've seen many a "bad design" work quite well in a specific setting...it worked well for Dad. That being said, I'm sure there's a reason nobody's doing it today, given the research and modelling tools we have available.

[MtGun44]

No reason that they could not be accurate, they are just not going to
have substantially lower aerodynamic drag than a normal boolit.

I'd assume that they had to be more expensive to make so without
a drag benefit (improved trajectory) I assume that a higher priced
bullet has little market advantage.

Bill