View Full Version : Inline question

09-17-2006, 11:04 AM
I have a guy trying to make an Omega inline shoot. .45 cal, using 150 gr.fff 777, and an Extended Range Sabot, 180 gr.
"Group" is around a foot. Sabots are not coming off the bullet about half the time. Naturally, this has to be contributing to the inaccuracy.
My gut feeling is he is using too much powder, first off. And looking at the bullet enclosed in the sabot, it appears to be one of the most poorly designed bullets I have seen.
My suggestion to him of course, was to find a real ML.
Anyone have any experience with these things?

09-17-2006, 11:07 AM
Geez Ric,

150 grs :roll: That is a heck of alot of powder for a 45 cal muzzleloader. Shucks tell him to cut way back like try 100 see what happens.


09-17-2006, 01:34 PM
It always amazes me what modern hunters think is necessary for a powder charge! Triple 7 is a very hot powder! I have found that 80 grains will produce almost a hundred fps more velocity (1649) than 100 grains of Goex black(1560), when used in my inline .50 cal.
Have you found a sabot to examine? My guess is the base will be terribly deformed with this much pressure. Have him try some CVA power belts with about 70-90 grains and he will likely find a good load. -JDL

P.S. You might inform him that the huge buff heards were wiped out using only 70-90 grains of black powder. :-D

09-17-2006, 01:58 PM
I agree with JDL. Tell him to back off the powder. You can use 10% less 777 and get the same result as Pyrodex. I used to use two 50 gn 777 pellets in my .50 cal CVA inline with a Lyman 429244 in a Harvestor sabot. Very good accuracy and penetration. I took several deer and hogs with this combination. (Harvestor sabots are available from Cabelas)

09-17-2006, 02:44 PM
Hey, c'mon guys! These guys read all the crappola put out and need 300 mag velocities or the gun won't kill. None of them have ever used a flinter or percussion side lock with a round ball and think they are anemic. Handgun bullets from a big bore muzzle loader! What a farce. The whole question is, can the man hunt, or does he have to be 200 yd's from a deer? Damn, I have to make my bow shoot 2000 fps or deer are safe! Can't hit them at 20 yd's because the arrow drops too much.
Balls just roll out of my Hawkin and only work if I drop it on the deer's head. Every one wants things easier instead of enjoying the woods and the hunt. Maybe we ought to make traps for the deer so nimrods can beat them with clubs. But then some would want 100 foot long clubs.
Buy a REAL gun and find out there is more to life then killing everything you see. Stop looking at pictures of the trophy hunters, shoot a nice doe for the freezer.

09-17-2006, 03:21 PM
Have him try 50-80gr of Pyrodex or 777. He is using twice the charge he needs. It also sounds like the bullet/sabot combination is a big part of the problem, and he should be encouraged to try several different kinds. T/C makes unfilled sabots the you can stuff with your own boolits if you aren't impressed with what they're selling. Sometimes you have to size them for ease of loading. A nice, soft SWC or HP ought to work just fine. The Omega's twist rate will probably not stabilize a rb, but that doesn't mean you can't try it - my rb barrel shoots slugs pretty well. MaxiBalls and MaxiHunters should be tested in it, too. Even if he gets a real m/l, we all know he's still not going to be hitting anything consistantly (let alone being sure of killing it cleanly) at much beyond 100yds, and I'm sure you've already made that clear to him. But, as far as getting the groups down to a "minute of deer" size, that is doable with a little restraint and some patience. I don't think it will be a tack driver even with its favorite load (whatever that may turn out to be). 6"-5shots@100 is a reasonable expectation, 3" is damned good, and anything smaller you hit the lottery.

09-17-2006, 04:39 PM
Everyone that comes over here to shoot an inline (Heaven forbid!) finds that Power Belts are the best.
I have killed so many deer with a .45 flinter, .50 an .54 with round balls, that you will have to tie me up, beat me and take away my booze to make me get an inline, unless it is an original.
P.S., I have shot over 355 deer, over 220 of those with bows and I don't know how many with revolvers. Lost track a while back. Now I cut, wrapped and froze all of those so if you have something to gripe about, compare before you complain.

09-17-2006, 04:40 PM
Personally I think he should try the TC Maxi-Ball's . Although my muzzleloader is a 50 cal, I use Maxi-balls and Versifier I reckon I've hit the lottery.


09-17-2006, 07:49 PM
Keep going, guys. Maybe I can show him this, and convince him of the errors of his ways.

09-17-2006, 09:57 PM
I have some excellent lamp stand designs that really look good on an inline and last week I sold one for enough for a good barrel for a flint Hawken. I can honestly tell you that I have three brand new barrels for CVA inlines and I am using them for making sizing dies. I would rather subsist on a diet of buffalo dung and elephant whiz than to shoot an inline.

No I'll take that back I did shoot an original inline bb gun made in the 1870's, but that had a dummy lock and at least looked like a real muzzleloader.

crazy mark
09-17-2006, 10:37 PM
150 gr of powder. I use 60-80 grs in my 45 cal caplocks and 70-90 grs in my 50 cal caplocks. Why doesn't he just buy the Savage in-line that uses regular powder and have at it. Here in Oregon you can't use pellets or sabots in ML season. Most in-lines are a no no also. Has to have open ignition. I like the mystery of if the rifle will go off after you have been out in the wet weather. Mark

09-17-2006, 10:41 PM
There's always the chance that he will get into m/l's, and soon enough be frustrated at the limitations of what he has. If his head is screwed on correctly, he'll soon be coming to you with questions about real m/l's, rb's, black powder. Everyone doesn't catch the bug, some will always see it as nothing more than a way to get an extra week of deer season. But at least he has the motivation to try something new and the good sense to ask the advice of someone who did catch the bug to try to make it work. That is a hopeful sign. And, truth to tell, even if I can't get around very well any more when it's raining, a lot of hunters I know prefer to do it in the rain because of the way sounds and scents behave. If you're going to carry a m/l around in the rain and get it all wet and rusty, it might as well be an inline, and (perish the thought) it might even work better than a traditional and actually go off when it comes down to shooting it in the downpour. :-D The more shooters out there, the better, no matter what it is they are shooting that makes them one of us, and that's good enough for me. (Even if I wouldn't be caught dead with one, either. :mrgreen: )

Old Ironsights
09-18-2006, 10:39 AM
Not a big fan of Sabots here. In fast-twist inlines IMO there is no better boolit than a 200gr .45 Lee REAL. Put a max charge of 90 gr 3F behind it and he'll be accurate AND able to cast is own. (that's what we're about here, right?) :castmine:

Remember the old "rule". One Grain per Caliber for target, 2 Grains per Caliber for Hunting. Never found a reason to deviate much from it. ;-)

As to Rain? I can (and have) shot my flint in the rain. You just need to load it in a dry spot and seal the pan/frizzen/touch-hole with some wax (that breaks away on firng). You only need one shot anyway, remember? [smilie=1:

09-18-2006, 11:17 AM
Another secret for the flinter is to pull the barrel and slop the channel with a good paste wax, then put the barrel back in so it squeezes out the excess. Polish it up and go hunting. This keeps water from running down the barrel channel and getting into the pan from below. Paste wax works better on the exposed metal then oil does too.

09-18-2006, 12:28 PM
Well now, I have a TC Omega myself, sorry it aint a "real" muzzle loader :-). I wanted a ML that would shoot good, damn good in fact, so I bought me one :-). The Omega does not give up any bbl length to being an inline design like some others do because of it's falling block design.

That said, 777 is not to be meaured in WEIGHT, it is a BULK powder, IE you use the same VOLUME as 150 grains of BP. My Omega with the TC sabots and 300 grain bullets will group under 2" at 75 yards 3 shots with 777 volume equiv to 150 grains of BP, it will shoot more like 1" to 1.5" with 100 grains equiv(volume) of 777.

The 150 grain equiv charge of 777 gives over 2400fps..the 100 grain equiv charge of 777 runs about 2000fps both with a 300 grain bullet.

I ordered some VARIFLAME adaptors to try, many users claim the 209 primers (even the ones esp. for inlines) are hot enough that they lift the bullet off the powder before the fire gets lit, many users of the adaptors claim sub 1" groups with them, and 1-2 inch groups with 209's...........the dang BP 209's just cost too much to go out and shoot much, they run like $4 per 100..the variflame adaptor is a kit of 10 machined brass widgets that look like 209 primers, but take small rifle or small pistol primers, so you can try all kinds of differant primers if you wish.

I think the Omega is a fine rifle, good enough that I will use it both in shotgun season and BP season here in ohio........Harry Pope sure would have not EVER looked down his nose at anything about the Omega design, and inline rifles have been around in principle for as long as there have been BP firearms from what you read..my biggest objection to the early inline designs was loss of barrel length for a given overall length...and the Omega design cures that problem, with BP or it's analogs I want ALL the bbl length I can get, and losing 6" to say a model 700like action is simply not acceptible to me.

I also know the Omega with 150 gains equiv of 777 and a 300 grain bullet kicks like a MULE, but any 7lb rifle that is putting out 3800ft lbs of muzzle energy is gonna do that, so maybe your buddy has developed a well deserved flinch :-).

I also got some Goex Pinnacle to try, I want to go out and practice with the rifle before deer season, and 777 while probably the best hunting BP analog due to greater muzzle energy, is not so great for going out and shooting 20-50 shots due to the fouling from it....I have read nothing but good from the pinnacle in that regard so we will see, some users report 30-50 accurate shots with no patching.

Also on the 777, if I fire more than 5 shots with 100-150 grains equiv and do not clean the bore I will start to get patterns, so that is another consideration you might want to bring up with your friend...some people don't know the ML bag so good and don't consider that they need to learn their firearm and how many shots it will fire without patching the bore to remove residue.

Myself I stay away from the pellets, I have carried them for a rapid reload(seemed less prone to spillage when your shaking like a leaf after the first shot, and proved to be so far), and they do drop a shot into the group formed by the same amount of loose powder...but I prefer being able to FIRMLY seat the bullet/sabot and not having to worry about crushing the pellets, and also the loose powder is a lot cheaper than the pellets..


Old Ironsights
09-18-2006, 12:37 PM
Bill, if you are shooting 300gr bullets over 150gr (v) powder I can assume with confidence that you are NOT shooting a .45.

Inline, underhammer, sidelock, whatever, the guy using 150gr in a .45 is using waaaaay too much powder.

In my Mossberg .50 inline ML barrel accuracy starts going to hell not long after 100gr powder. Sure, I can (and have) shoot 150gr(v)360gr Minnie loads (hell, I even feild tested a 500gr custom REAL...) but what's the point if you can't keep MOA at 100? All you are doing is wasting powder.

09-18-2006, 12:41 PM

I'm drooling while reading your report on the Variflame for the group size change and NOTHING!!! Well you said you ordered them so maybe you don't have that yet and haven't tried them.

Here's my opinion. I have the TC Blackdiamond. It came with all three primer systems and the 209 shotgun one was the one that was installed at the factory so I tried and just stuck with it. First off, being BP is hard go get, I use Pyrodex and 777. I'm not going to tell folks what groups I get at 100 yds because I don't want to hear the crap, but it's good, better then good, very good. I also haven't noticed what you said about five shots or more with 777 and your groups change. Mine don't! What caliber is your Omega? My inline is a 50 cal. I noticed the 777 burns alot cleaner and I've also noticed that when you pull the trigger with 777 you don't get a boom you get a crack, like in a high powered centfire smokeless rifle. I don't even get that crack with Pyrodex.

I rarely hunt or use the inline anymore being I moved out of Ohio. That was the reason I bought it for in the first place. I just can't use a shotgun for deer hunting. I don't really care much of shotguns.


09-18-2006, 12:54 PM

I forgot to mention on the reason for that Variflame that you stated. You know they use same shotgun primer in all gauges. There is also alot less powder in even a 12 ga shotshell then a muzzleloader. Then to look even further look how small the 410 is smaller in both shell size and powder load. With that said I'm not real convinced about what they said about the 209 primer lifting the bullet off the powder. Yes I know shotshells don't shoot groups, but you never hear anything negative about too much primer force. I just wonder if Variflame is just another gimmick to sale. Don't get me wrong, I believe a centerfire primer is much more efficient then those piddly little #11 caps. I remember when there was a company that had a nipple conversion for centerfire primers and then the ATF outlawed them. Now it's legal again.


09-18-2006, 07:22 PM
I can't remember where, I think it was another BB but I remember someone experimenting with Sabot's and he was cutting them so they would fall off and thus keep his shooting was more consistant and got better shot groups as a result!
But I agree with the majority that he is using too much powder.

09-18-2006, 07:35 PM
Joe I just ordered them last night, not here yet.

On the number of shots fired without patterns, I know I shot about (10-15) shots and lost grouping, in testing I have seen that I can get (5) without patterns...some somewhere in between is the spot :-). 777 will leave a nice candy ring in the bore about where the powder charge ends in my experience in this 50 omega, and in the 58 rifled musket I tried it in too.

I am so sorry to not understand the shooter had a 45 Omega.

part of the deal on the vari-flame is to get away from using the spensive 209ml primers for practice, I always have lots of SR and SP primers around, but simply HATE to pay $4 for 100 209ml. Ya the whole kit of 10 adaptors and the gear to load them cost as much as (500) primers, BUT it also makes the gun a bit more versatile if it can draw on the OTHER primer supply, I don't currently load shotgun shells that use 209's so have no real supply of 209's. People actually used to reload 209's with new berdan primers...have not heard of that in years................209's DO vary in strength, the differant powder charges listed for differant primers with same wad/shot/hull illustrates that :-)............BP 209's were also probably a LOT softer than today's 209's...I have read several places that BP primers did not have to be nearly as hot as smokeless ones are.

The flash hole in the Omega is darn tiny, and the powder is packed tight, I didnt lend a lot of credence to the blast from the primer lifting the charge either...yes they did test it with no powder and get the sabot/bullet to lift with a 209, but the area the pressure has to work on is so much larger(exponentially larger) that way than with a powder charge well packed into the divot in the breech plug that it really means nothing.

But we will learn something :-)

I was thinking this afternoon after I posted my earlier reply that the Omega really closely duplicates the most used loading system in the scheutzen era, that being muzzle loaded projectile, and breech loaded black powder in a ctg. case fired with a normal primer for the day...........that system worked so good for so long that it took some doing to beat it :-). The Omega lets us clean the bbl easily from the breech (other ML do too sort of )

As the gun shoots now it seems to want to go sub 1" at 75 yards, that is plenty good enuf............I have in mind to shoot about 50 grains of pinnacle for practice and see how that works out........I did read one writer got far more consistant velocity and accuracy with pinnacle by weighing charges for consistancy due to the fine dust in the powder.

In case your wondering on the 75 yards, I can finally shoot at HOME now, and 75 yards puts me alongside the end of the house in sight of the door, 100 has the door 25 yards downrange, so I shoot at 75 when the wife is home, and she is always home hehe.

I did notice the CRACK..........and how quick the bullet gets to the target, and it makes a hell of a WACK on the 3/4" mild steel trauma plate on the front of my Railroad tie backstop :-).

Also Joe does the black diamond have the ez-load built in false muzzle like the Omega ?? I did notice some uneven fouling buildup in that area that I think may be leading to the patterns after 10-15 shots...the pattern issue also had a POI shift involved in it, higher and to the left, and THAT also points to possible fouling in the ez-load muzzle ball start maybe being the issue. At the point I saw accuracy drop the sabot/bullet was still loading smoothly so maybe it was not due to the 777 fouling in the area I mentioned down where the powder charge ends and the bullet starts.


09-18-2006, 07:41 PM

First the BlackDiamond does have that Quickstart feature. When I lived in Ohio I too shot from along side the house but it gave me 75-80 yards. Now at that distance if I did my part I got some of those Maxi-balls to cut one another. Honestly I don't like shooting the rifle alot with my hunting load as it's light, and although it has a recoil pad, it has a pretty good recoil.

The nipple on my rifle also has that tiny little hole, shucks it looks like it should be on the jet/generator of a Coleman gas lantern it's that small.

I use the TC Bore Butter and I like it so far. I made a gadget to lube the bullets with no mess, kinda like a hand held luber/sizer except it doen't size the bullet.

I got tons of 209 primers.


09-18-2006, 07:44 PM
Well Joe, as you know, when you stop f$^king with it and just start using it, it gets boring :-)

I do need to get a mold for some naked boolits for the Omega, save even more $$ and not buy sabots.


09-18-2006, 08:09 PM

I got my first TC back in 1972, wife bought for a xmas present for me. It was the kit. I was never one much back then for imitating the real hawkens, like having the metal browned. I had the kit by the way, in 50 cal. I put 72 costs of oil on the stock. Thing looks like a violen. Polished the barrel on night shift at work for almost the whole 8 hrs. Got it blued. The rifle looked like it was a Weatherby Hawkins. Now the muzzle on mine was crowned just like a regular centerfire rifle. I mention this because my kit gun shot really really good. Well moved to Ok and we got robbed. Yup they took my Hawkens. Well my friend in Tulsa bought one. This would be about 8 yrs after I had bought mine. By then the muzzle was crowned with a very big radius. His rifle shot really really bad. In fact it went back to the factory and they put a new barrel on it. Then it shot better, but no ways as good as the ones with the older crown style. Well went I had gotten that kit together I got a TC Maxi-ball mould for it, still have the mould. So ever since 1972 I've been shooting the Maxi-ball while all these young fellows are enamered with the saboted jacketed bullets. Not me. I've gotten more accuracy then I thought with my Maxi-ball. It really wallops a whitetail deer too. There isn't any trailing unless you hit the deer in the leg or some other bad shot. All mine went down in their hoof marks. I admitt they are big and heavy and when loaded up to snuff in these inlines they kick pretty good. I miss not having black powder. I know I could order but I would have to get a whole case and there aren't many guys around where I live to split up a case. That's why I went to Pyrodex. My inline come with all the tools and stuff and a packet of saboted 44 pistol bullets. Never opened them. One think I don't like about my inline is it's hard to get the 209 primer out. TC provided a tool but it's made of plastic and to me that's dumb. Don't know about your Omega, but the bolt on the Blackdiamond is the firing pin and the tiny tiny little nipple of a firing pin amazes me that it would even fire a 209 primer.


09-18-2006, 08:18 PM
The Omega has a firing pin and a hammer, I got a CVA 209 puller/inserter, and it is made of METAL, have not tried it yet either :-).

The 209's can be hard to pull from the Omega with the plastic gizmo they give you.

The only thing better than a big bullet going fast, is a bigger bullet going fast hehe......

I never really got into pyrodex, but 777 and now maybe the pinnacle may offer things that BP really can't even do............I LIKE BP don't get me wrong.....but rhe stink and the nostalgia is all RECREATION, the Omega is a rifle for making lean meat :-)


09-18-2006, 08:29 PM
The Omega would be a fine rifle if they would offer some options. I hate the sabot crap. A round ball twist would be nice with the deep rifling. A 1 in 48 for maxi balls and then the fast twists for the sabot crowd. Three guns to please all of us.
If any of you are archers, look and see how many new bows are long enough for finger shooters! I shoot fingers and a release but there are no new bows long enough for fingers.
That is what the inline is doing, getting rid of the round ball shooters. There are very few factory round ball rifles left. Why? because the inline guy has to spend more money to shoot! These factories are squeezing the fun and cheap shooting out of our lives for profit.
But then the demand for these rifles drives the factories too. The dreams of shooting deer at 200 yd's by some hunters makes it hard for the true hunter to find equipment without spending big bucks. If I needed to shoot 200 yd's I would just get a 270 or something. Progress in reverse that removes the sport of hunting and replaces it with just shooting.
Stick a recurve bow in some of these guy's hands and they would quit hunting the first year, too hard, can't get close and they NEED that deer! See a deer that can't be shot at! God almighty, thats wrong! Quick, run to the store for a rifle that will reach the deer.
Oh, the gun won't fire and you could miss a shot when it is raining or snowing! Is it that important? No one can laugh and accept defeat anymore. The deer just HAS to die when the trigger is pulled. Sportsmanship is going the way of the Dodo.
But then some of you are like me, keep downgrading what we hunt with to have to get closer to the animal. That is fine and I applaud you but don't get carried away and use too small a gun for the game. Use reason in the choice of calibers. A .44 or .45 is great, don't see what you can do with a .38 or 9mm.
I hear a lot of stories about hunting spots where you have to shoot long range. Guess what, it is bull pucky. A good bowhunter would find a way to get within 20 yd's in any terrain.

09-18-2006, 08:37 PM
The more I read here, the more inlines look like they are harder to get shooting properly than traditional designs, and after cleaning this one, I would rather clean my flinters, or caplock, any day!

09-18-2006, 08:41 PM

Alot of truth to what you say. Apparently someone is still making ball shooting flinters because BP season in Pa is with a flinter. Use to be a flinter with round ball, but now I think they let you use a conical.

I grew up hunting deer with a rifle. Shotguns were relegated to small game. I didn't even like hunting squirrels with a shotgun, so I used a 22 rf.

Okay got married and moved all around the country. Then we moved to Ohio. Guess what, deer gun season was shotgun only. Well I do not like hunting deer with a shotgun and bp was fine for deer gun season so I bought an inline to just deer hunt gun season with. I also used some handguns which is legal in gun season. Well I had my own place out in the stick that consisted of 11 acres of mostly woods. Ohio requirement to hunt your own land without a license was 10 acres, so I qualified for that. I bough licenses anyways to help support the game commision, plus two of my friends taught safety hunter course. We always thought that lower southern Ohio should be rifle as you can't tell the difference from Ohio and W. Va. We even argued for let us use pistol caliber rifles. Answer was no. Oh well.

I bought the inline like I said for deer gun season and I was out to put meat in the freezer, which that rifle did very well.


Old Ironsights
09-18-2006, 08:45 PM
I would agree - at least to the xtent of the Mossberg inline.

My Removable-breech Flinter is 30000x easier to clean than that fixed-breech (lawyerproofing) Mossberg inline.

09-18-2006, 09:06 PM
Joe, I am from Ohio and used a .45 flinter instead of a shotgun. I never failed to get a deer with it. None ever had to be tracked. The year I had to leave was the first year handguns could be used. They said you hunted with the hangun only for the gun season. I am sorry I didn't get to do it there. I make up for it in WV!

09-19-2006, 04:53 AM
Well as to the round ball twist, for a traditional design I agree 100%, maybe even for non traditional, I like round balls, friend has an older hawken with the in between twist, it doesnt seem to like either round balls or conicals, of course maybe it just has a bad crown like the one Joe was talking about.

The Omega is very easy to clean,

Actually I have thought about making a new barrel for mine this winter for a project, if I get real bored I might just make another rifle......but it will be a .375....with a throat in it from the breech end so I can breech normal cast bullets and load powder from the rear....technically and legally a muzzle loader, but functionally a cartridge rifle.

If Elmer keith could shoot a deer with a 44 magnum at 600 yards, the Omega would do the same job but have a bit more velocity when the bullet hits.

And just for a fun poke mr 44man, all of your pistols I see have those non traditional scopes on them :-) ??

For just fun BP shooting I guess my favorite would be a sidelock 45 set up for musket caps with an ezload type of deal in the muzzle, and some kind of pre-lubed conical...this would offer the most shots per hour of blackpowder fun....the musket caps are lots nicer IMHO because they never split and jamn on the nipple like #11 can.

I was thinking TC made the penna hunter in caplock too for us guys that prefer to light our BP with an explosion instead of rubbing a rock on some steel for sparks :-)...that rifle has a round ball twist.....round balls may make up for being slower to load, by being quicker to cast, and no leading to worry about with a patch.


09-19-2006, 02:37 PM
Willbird, you can poke fun at my old eyes. I need the red dots for my revolvers. I still use open sights on my muzzle loaders though. The front sight is still far enough away so I can see it. What am I gonna do if it gets worse? Make a 10 foot barrel I guess!
That avitar on the left has changed. The laser blew up and the Tasco is too dark in the morning and evening so I put an Ultra Dot on the gun.

09-19-2006, 02:40 PM
How do I get that picture changed?

09-19-2006, 03:12 PM

go to the tool bar at the top of the page. The farther on the left that says User CP, click that. In the first block that comes open you'll see edit avatar, click that, the rest should be self explanatory.


09-19-2006, 05:59 PM
Thanks Joe, I have to take a new picture.

09-19-2006, 06:13 PM
You're welcome pardner.


09-19-2006, 08:25 PM
44man, those dissappearing rear sights, is why so many of us old farts around here, have started shooting trade guns so much!

02-16-2015, 07:03 PM
355 deer ? Can I come to your place to hunt this year?

02-16-2015, 07:18 PM
waksupi, just tell the guy their is nothing better than a real lead bullet. then he can buy a lee 400 grain 45/70 die for not too much money and two reduceing dies for very little also. reduce the bullet in two stages to .440. paperpatch it, and use 80 grains of real black or even triple 7 behind the bullet and that gun will be a one hole gun at 100 yards. the .45 1/28 twist guns inline or sidelock are very very easy to get to shoot paperpatched. if he wants a .45 magnum tell him to buy a .458 winchester. what good is a bullet once it has flattened out and has gone through a deer or hog. anything extra is just that extra. the load i described is the same or a little more that a 45/70, closer to a 45/90. his gun is a good gun he just isnt loading it right.

02-16-2015, 07:29 PM
Pm sent to avoid flood of BS! I can help, I shoot a Omega!

02-16-2015, 07:39 PM
I have a cva 50 cal shooting sub 3 inch groups @100 with open sights. I only use 90 grains of 777 and currently shoot power belt bullets for easy loading. None of the 4 deer I have shot have stayed on their feet. Back off the charge and use either a full bore bullet or quality sabot with a cast or hornady bullet. Just my 2.

Rick Hodges
02-17-2015, 08:50 AM
I shoot an Omega 50 with a 300gr. Hornady XTP a MMP Hph-24 Sabot and 110 gr. of loose 777. It yields 1780fps on my chronograph and will shoot inside of 2" for 3 shot groups at 100 yds. It has done so every time over a 7 year period. It has a 1.5-4x scope and I can't hold much better than that. Yes it is off the bags.

I hunt with two others with Omegas...one uses 2 50 gr. pellets of 777 and 250 TC bullets and sabots. The other shoots 240 gr. TC bullets and sabots. (I believe the bullets are made for TC by Hornady).

Both of these rifles will shoot inside of 2 1/2" at 100 yds. These rifles will shoot. I have no idea what is wrong with your friends. I have heard of the easy start section of the barrel being out of concentricity with the bore but have never seen it. 150 gr. of powder seems to be a bunch in a 45.

02-17-2015, 09:55 AM
rick hodges has a very good point. if you cut that barrel off slightly behind where they took out the lands for easy loading, squared the muzzle and recrowned it. used less powder, their would be no reason that it didnt shoot very very good.

02-17-2015, 10:19 AM
That post was 9 years old. Maybe they figured it out by now.

Rick Hodges
02-17-2015, 02:51 PM
That post was 9 years old. Maybe they figured it out by now.

OOPS!!!!! :oops:

02-23-2015, 11:49 AM
I have owned and shot more traditional bp rifles and pistols than most of the so called experts here on this forum.
I also shoot 2 inline 50 cal muzzleloaders. I have enjoyed both styles. There are pros and cons on both types of rifles. I really prefer inlines.
Now kcso....would you like ketchup or some other condiment to go with you buffalo dung dinner ?

02-23-2015, 09:59 PM
My suggestion to him of course, was to find a real ML. Spot on truthful no doubt about that.

Anyone have any experience with these things? To much powder is not always a good thing under sabot carried bullets. Try 100 to 105 gr. of T-777 (2-FF.) You'll see a improvement in its grouping. 45 barrels having a 1-28 can indeed be finicky in their powder measure & preference. Although close to a 50 cal.__45 cal sure doesn't behave like a 50 cal. Even so. I've been well pleased with PR products in my 45_1-28.

Lloyd Smale
02-26-2015, 09:37 AM
hate to tell you this but they are junk. Ive got stainless omega ive been struggling with for 5 years or so. Bought it new took it out and shot enough to sight it in and went hunting without really working up a load and did shoot a deer the first year at about 50 yards. the next summer I had time to play so I tried (emphasize tried) to work up a load for it. It would many times put two shots next to each other and throw the third right off the paper. I tried two different sabots, 6 different bullets and two different substitute powders that year and found nothing that worked. It also loaded terribly hard. I had to about bang the rod up against something to get bullets to seat in it.

So I sent it back to tc with a letter telling the what was wrong. It came back about a month later with a note that said they lapped the barrel. The barrel looked rough, almost chattered when it was new. It still looked the same and shot the same. I really don't think they did a thing.

I put it away and bought another gun. It say for a couple years and this year I thought id give it another try. Same results and even noticed that about all the sabots when found were missing peddles of of them. I then called tc and the guy said I had to use there easy load sabots and the hornady tipped bullet. Bought some of them and tried them with about a dozen loads with no better results and no easier loading.

So back to tc again. this time I left it fouled and included some bullets an sabots so they could see what I meant about it loading hard. they returned it to me and said that the gun had been abused and was rusty. I blew a cork. I called and told them if it had a bit of rust it was because I left it fouled for them to see and the ****** thing was a stainless guy anyway. they basically said tough sss. I got looking around on line and found that a lot of these escaped tc with bad barrels. My guess is there out of barrels and instead of replacing the guns are trying to dodge a bullet by claiming there not warrantied for some stupid reason.

Well the last time they returned it was last week and they sent it without a breach plug so I promptly boxed it up and sent it back again with a nasty letter asking what there lifetime warrantee is worth. I also wrote a letter to there service manager and even the president of the company.

Want me to tell you whats going on. Like I said they don't have parts to fix it and honor there warrantee and along with that your not dealing with the good old boy tc company we all loved. Your dealing with bean counters from smith and Wesson that bought it out. Unlike the old company these guys could give a rip if your happy or not.

So mines back in again. I did get delivery confirmations so they can claim they didn't get it. We will see this time what happens. Im not holding my breath though. I sure hope you find the answer with yours but id first take a look at the rifling. Mines so bad you can see it with the naked eye.

What angers me is I had a real good shooting cva inline. A cheap one but it shot as well as some of my bolt action rifles. I gave it to my nephew because I wanted a good gun. Well im back with another cva now. At a 1/3 the price its a better shooting rifle hands down. Bottom line is you might be just wasting powder and bullets on it. I know I wasted enough on mine to buy another gun

Rick Hodges
02-26-2015, 11:16 AM
LLoyd, I lucked out and I bought my Omega a while ago when TC was still TC. A real pity what has happened to that company, they used to be the very best in customer service.
I did just pick up a CVA Wolf for $79 on a seasonal closeout at my Walmart. I haven't fired it yet but it looks and feels like a nice rifle. I hope is shoots as well as the one you gave away....mine is probably destined for a nephew too.

02-26-2015, 11:44 AM
hate to tell you this but they are junk. Ive got stainless omega ive been struggling with for 5 years or so. Bought it new took it out and shot enough to sight it in and went hunting without really working up a load and did shoot a deer the first year at about 50 yards. the next summer I had time to play so I tried (emphasize tried) to work up a load for it. It would many times put two shots next to each other and throw the third right off the paper. I tried two different sabots, 6 different bullets and two different substitute powders that year and found nothing that worked. It also loaded terribly hard. I had to about bang the rod up against something to get bullets to seat in it.

Sounds like you never got all the factory gunk out of the barrel, when new.
When that rifle was brand new, what did you clean it with? Every manufacturer uses a different product inside that new bore. What CVA uses is different than what TC uses.

Also, how often did you swab the bore, during your three shot ritual where the third shot went off-paper? What powder(s) did you use for that three shot group? What product were you swabbing the bore with? Was that bore completely dry and free of solvents / oil, when you started? If not, what was in the bore?

Lloyd Smale
02-27-2015, 07:52 AM
bore has cleaned new with jb bore paste. I use it on every new gun I get because it removes ANY protectant left in a bore. I tried cleaning every three shots and like I said I had to pound in the third. So went to every shot and it still wont shoot a 3 shot group. Many times it wont even put two together. We can argue what caused this but all It would take is for you to look down the barrel with your naked eye and youd see that the rifling in this gun is terrible. you can see the chatter marks and feel tight and loose spots all the way down as you seat the bullet even with a clean bore.

Lloyd Smale
02-27-2015, 07:54 AM
Yup rick its sad. Im waiting on the return of this rifle AGAIN and if its still not fixed its going in the garbage and I will spend the rest of my days telling everyone about tc and there new smith and Wesson ownership and how well they stand behind a lifetime warrantee.
LLoyd, I lucked out and I bought my Omega a while ago when TC was still TC. A real pity what has happened to that company, they used to be the very best in customer service.
I did just pick up a CVA Wolf for $79 on a seasonal closeout at my Walmart. I haven't fired it yet but it looks and feels like a nice rifle. I hope is shoots as well as the one you gave away....mine is probably destined for a nephew too.