Remedy for Lyman /RCBS Lube-sizer alignment issues

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/902DB7735B7472A/standard.jpg

In the ram guide you can see 2 of the 3 D&T'ed holes fitted with sockethead setscrews. I nipped off a tiny bit of bronze welding rod then mashed it flat with a hammer. A piece went into each hole with the setscrew bearing on it.

If you want to get fancy you can also get setcrews with a springloaded ball bearing in the nose, or thier own brass or nylon insert. Even solid brass machine screws would work fine. An 8-32 thread is a good size.

Due to the shortness of the Lyman ram guide, and being used in a garage environment, it doesn't take too many years for the steel ram to wear a bit into the cast iron of the guide, there at the front.

............Buckshot

[beagle]

Rick....Ought to work all right.

I've got a guide drawn up that I'll get made that works on the other end. Sits in the center of the die lock nut and has a tapered bevel to guide the ram in line at the end of the stroke where you're sizing.

Similar to what Steve Hurst is using to center his bullets for making the pop can gas checks.

Now that I've gone with Mark's nose first sizing, I'm not having alignment problems as I'm just lubing and there's no stress on the bullet./beagle.

[w30wcf]

w30wcf's Self Aligning Top Punch

About 20 years ago when I first started casting .22 caliber bullets, I used a .225" sizing die to lube and g.c. some 225438 bullets which dropped from the mold at .225" in w.w. + 2% tin alloy. The problem I ran into was that the bullet was being shaved slightly on one side in my lubrisizer. Not good.

I tried several methods to correct the situation like loosening the set screw, turning the top punch stem undersized and holding it in place with a dab of alox, and putting thumb pressure against the side of the ram. This helped but there had to be a better way.

After thinking on it bit, I made a top punch which was .225" on the o.d. to align the top punch with the H&I die.

Then, instead of the stem that normally locks the top punch into the ram, I turned a flange on the top of the punch which was 1/16" smaller in diameter than hole in the H&I die retention nut.

I then recessed a portion of the back of the flange that fit against the bottom of the ram to hold a dab of bullet lube. This held the top punch in place once it self aligned itself with the die.

IT WORKED! The .225" diameter bullets went into the die with no misalignment whatsoever. As Jackie Gleason would say, "How sweet it is!"

Since then I have made several other self aligning top punches in different calibers that have really come in handy, especially with a used brand name lubrisizer that I later purchased which was in great condition except for one thing......the ram was about .015" out of alignment.

A flat magnet can take the place of the dab of bullet lube to hold it in place against the face of the ram.

I am in the process of writing a short article for The Fouling Shot which should be published later this year.

w30wcf

[mountainman49]

Well I'm a newbie to your site. Can use any help you offer. SORRY!! to but in to your topic!Not sure about this computer stuff a real green horn.
Might as well get into it!! I shoot blackpowder lots, reload modern stuff have to got a bunch of long guns & hand guns. Well I picking up 2 38-55 winchester on Monday and want to make my on cast stuff. Well I have molds for quite a few of my handguns & handles lead pots furnaces ect. BUT

I don't resize them or lube them . I have a chance to buy a Lyman lube sizer for a few dollars but have NO idea how to use it. I bought some lube in tubes. I saw the luber an sizer in this topic so I thought you gentlemen might give me some help. I have some QUESTIONS:

1) When sizing do you have to have a die or sizer for each type of bullet or want ever?
2) Some guys say not to use tire weights just lead?
3) What kind of loads or where can a guy find some loads for cast rifle bullets?
4) I think cast bullet should have gas checks (yes or no) are they hard to get?

Your help will be appreciated ,Thanks

I don't mean to sound stupid !! Mountainman49

[waksupi]

Welcome aboard, Mountain man. I'll try to get started on some of your questions.

1) When sizing do you have to have a die or sizer for each type of bullet or want ever?

You do need the proper sized die for each bullet diameter. Each rifle, can be a rule unto it's own.

2) Some guys say not to use tire weights just lead?

I'd say 98% of what most of us shoot is WW's. Some BP rifles need softer stuff, but not all. Once again, each rifle's preference.

3) What kind of loads or where can a guy find some loads for cast rifle bullets?

Get the Lyman Cast Bullet manual, it is a great place to start, along with the archives of this board.

4) I think cast bullet should have gas checks (yes or no) are they hard to get?

Gas checks are readily available from most suppliers. Our local shops even have a good selection. If you are shooting higher velocities, yes, you will need gas checks, for the most part.

[Buckshot]

..............mountainman49, welcome to the board! I can't add anything to Waksupi's response and just wanted to say HI[smilie=s:

"Your help will be appreciated ,Thanks. I don't mean to sound stupid !! Mountainman49"

I didn't notice any stupid questions.

..............Buckshot

[wills]

Lyman has instructions on the website

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/Instruction%20Guide%2014.pdf

[castalott]

Hey Buckshot!

I like that system of quick change ( I ASSUME) you have for your sizer. I use U channel and bolts...quick but not as quick as your method.How does it work....what would you do different? Do you use the same system for your presses?
thanks,
Dale

[Buckshot]

Hey Buckshot!

I like that system of quick change ( I ASSUME) you have for your sizer. I use U channel and bolts...quick but not as quick as your method.How does it work....what would you do different? Do you use the same system for your presses?
thanks,
Dale

..................I saw this a bit late, sorry. Works fine without a problem. I have presses, all the lubers, and the case trimmer set up on the blocks. I have a blank to put in when nothing else is there. It's more to keep you from banging your elbow on a sharp edge then anything else.

..................Buckshot

[Bucks Owin]

Buckshot, I like the idea I see on your bench! (Using empty rimfire ammo containers for bullet storage....)

Dennis

[Buckshot]

Buckshot, I like the idea I see on your bench! (Using empty rimfire ammo containers for bullet storage....)

Dennis

Dennis, when I first arrive at the range, you'll see my backside sticking out of each trash container in turn. Looking for the CCI/FED/REM plastic ammo boxes. The 22MRF and 17 cal ones are best. They'll stack five 30 cals in a row for 50 lubed slugs. The 7mm is 5 in a row, with the rows staggered back and forth. I think it's 60 or65 of those. The 6.5's are a straight 6 across stack.

Besides that, they're really handy for holding small stuff like percussion nipples, screws, nuts, screwdriver tips and whatever else you have rolling around you need to keep track of.

...................Buckshot

[beagle]

Rick....I thought that was the first thing that any decent bullet caster/reloader did.....hit the trash cans.

My range lately has gotten enviornmental conscious about brass. Has to be in the brass bucket. How sweet that is. I don't have to bend and pick it up anymore./beagle


Dennis, when I first arrive at the range, you'll see my backside sticking out of each trash container in turn. Looking for the CCI/FED/REM plastic ammo boxes. The 22MRF and 17 cal ones are best. They'll stack five 30 cals in a row for 50 lubed slugs. The 7mm is 5 in a row, with the rows staggered back and forth. I think it's 60 or65 of those. The 6.5's are a straight 6 across stack.

Besides that, they're really handy for holding small stuff like percussion nipples, screws, nuts, screwdriver tips and whatever else you have rolling around you need to keep track of.

...................Buckshot

[omgb]

Two things here. First, to the "old hands": OK, I don't get it. I have two of the RCBS sizers, well, one really, the other is a Lachmiller. Any way, neither has ever had an alignment problem nor has the press shaft ever shown any play. Neither of these presses are any where near new and the Lachmiller has had many thousands of bullets run through it. Am I lucky or is the problem mostly a Lyman problem?


OK, Number two. This is for Mountain man. Those 38-55s of yours should be very accurate with cast bullets. Depending on the gun you are using, a 38-55 could have a bore that ran anywhere from .379-.383. That is a BIG difference in the world of cast bullet shooting. The very first thing you need to do is slug that barrel. Get an egg-shaped sinker, one of the hollow ones from your local sporting goods store. It needs to be just slightly larger than the bore of your gun. Next, clean and very lightly oil the bore. Second, obtain a 26" length of 5/16th cold rolled steel and put one wrap of electrical tape around the length of the rod. Using a plastic hammer or wooden mallet, drive the sinker into the muzzle of the gun. Now, using a 2-3lb hammer and medium-light blows, drive the slug through the barrel using the rod. A 3 lb hammer and light blows is better than a 1 lb hammer and heavy blows. The slug moves more readily and there is no danger of smacking anything that shouldn't be smacked.:mrgreen: Now, get a good mic or digital dial caliper and check the circumference at several spots on the slug. The largest is your bore size. You want to take that measurement and add .002" to it. That is the starting point for sizing. Buy a die that size and try it. As to the top punch, don't get too worried about a perfect match to your bullet. Get one designed for your size die and then fill the nose with some JB Weld or Steel-filler epoxy. Stick the nose of a bullet in it until it sets and you've got a custom fitted nose punch..nice and cheap.

If you are using BP, the best metal for your application would be either 1-20 or 1-30 tin/lead. I'll leave it to you to figure out how to arrive at the mix but do remember, 50/50 solder comes in 1 lb rolls giving you .5 lbs of tin for every roll. 2 rolls is 1 lb or lead and 1 lb of tin:drinks:

If you are using smokeless then wheel weights may work best. The deal with BP is this. Lets say your throat, the area ahead of your chamber and just before the rifling begins, is .380 (very common in modern 38-55s) and your bore is .382. In order for your loads to chamber, you will need to size your bullets to .380. This is not conducive to good accuracy and will almost always result in chronic leading. However, BP is magic stuff. It has a sharp pressure spike and will take that undersized bullet and (if the metal is soft as in 1/20 or 1/30) it will bump it up to bore diameter and accuracy will be good. Now if the gun is older, as in from the transition period between BP and smokeless, that throat may be as much as .384. Once again, BP will come to the rescue and bump that soft bullet up. It won't be able to do that as well with wheel weights. Further more, transition guns and 38-55s in particular frequently have a 1-18 rifling twist with fairly deep grooves. This is an excellent set up for 250-280 grain soft lead/tin bullets. It's fast enough to stabilize long bullets and not so fast as to over torque the soft metal.

I shoot a lot of BPCR and play with this stuff all of the time. If you need specific tricks for loading the cartridges email me and I can hook you up with some help. Presently I'm fiddling with a Win BB94 in .375 that seems to be a basket of compromises between what would be an excellent 38-55 BP gun (it really loves BP loads) and a good smokeless gun like the 358 Win in the BLR. Lots of fun:roll: getting this thing to shoot cast loads in tight groups.

Any way, Welcome to the board. Have fun and shoot'em often.:Fire:

[BluesBear]

Thirty some odd years ago when Remington first started offering their .22 rimfire ammunition in 100 round plastic boxes they used ten rows of ten rounds each as opposed to CCI's five rows of twenty.
Shorty thereafter they also offered a stackable drawer unit that utilized nine Remington plastic boxes as the drawers.
For a while you could sent nine labels (and a small amount of money for shipping) to Remington and they would send you a free unit.
I used to have several of them and they worked great.

Nowadays I still save/scavage the CCI boxes for storage.
I also keep all of my prescription bottles for storage.
My large Neurontin bottles will each hold three loaded N-frame HKS or Safariland speedloaders stacked on each other.

[#2Alloy]

Mountain man, one other thought. When sizing cast boolits, you will also need the proper top punch to fit the nose shape, not only a sizing die.
Sorry to be off topic, just wanted to help.

[Bulltipper]

I have a brand new Lyman 4500 and it is already showing alignment problems. I am sizing / lubing .45 boolits cast from Mihec's 452-200. the problem is not the top punch, It is the ram. If I hold the handle with a little "away " pressure or put my thumb on the top near cross link, it aligns the punch just fine and i get no "smiley" if I just pull the handle down with no correction the natural leverage puts the top punch too far back and gives me a "smiley on the near side of the boolit. The sizer is about 3 weeks old and has lubed maybe 3000 or 3500 boolits, not to mention a broken pressure screw. Other than that I love it...

[sergeant69]

Dennis, when I first arrive at the range, you'll see my backside sticking out of each trash container in turn. Looking for the CCI/FED/REM plastic ammo boxes. The 22MRF and 17 cal ones are best. They'll stack five 30 cals in a row for 50 lubed slugs. The 7mm is 5 in a row, with the rows staggered back and forth. I think it's 60 or65 of those. The 6.5's are a straight 6 across stack.

Besides that, they're really handy for holding small stuff like percussion nipples, screws, nuts, screwdriver tips and whatever else you have rolling around you need to keep track of.

...................Buckshot

i can got-dam guarantee that ur backside in NOT the first thing i wanna see when arriving at ur range. PLEASE give me detailed driving instructions to that poor demented range so i can permenantly block it outta my GPS!
other than that.... thanks for the excellent advice you always are willing to share w/us (and i speak only for myself) dummys on this site. UR BACKSIDE! how come theres no "smileys" for throwing up on this site?

[sergeant69]

also............when i found the "antique" RCBS luber/sizer i noticed that the o-ring that is on the "piston" that puts pressure on the lube stick is shot. are there replacements? THANKS

[6bg6ga]

Take the piston to your local ACE, True Value , or Mom and Pop hardware store. Stroll down the isle where the O-Rings are kept in their slide drawers and choose your replacement. You'll be looking at a cost of less than $1 to replace it.

[6bg6ga]

After reading the start of this thread again I'm afraid that I cannot agree with the thread starters idea of the crude temporary fix. In order to insure proper alignment and a long life the unit should be dissassembled and taken to a qualified machinest to have it bored out and fitted with an insert/bearing surface.
This is the proper way to address the problem anything else is just putting a band aid which will cause more problems in the future.

[SSGOldfart]

Sad but true fix it the first time

guess I'm bad for using a quick fix myself

[Irascible]

My 2 year old Lyman is extremely sloppy already, maybe 1000 bullets. Plus, I cranked before the lube had heated enough, and pulled the threaded rod right up through the casting. What a piece of junk the new Lyman sizers are. I called Lyman and they wanted $125 for a bare casting. I think the RCBS is a much better unit for wear as the ram is larger and has more surface area. The Saeco is even better. You get what you pay for. I have one of everything but a Star and I'm working on that to replace my worn out 4500 Lyman.

[sleddman]

also............when i found the "antique" RCBS luber/sizer i noticed that the o-ring that is on the "piston" that puts pressure on the lube stick is shot. are there replacements? THANKS

Better yet call RCBS and they will send you one at no cost. Can't beat that

[omgb]

I can't believe it's been 6 years since I last replied to this thread! Lyman has some QC issues with regard to their sizers. My older RCBS and Lachmiller units are still working fine. I'm afraid Orange has lost me as a customer for most things.

[leadman]

I follow the instructions that RCBS has on their website about aligning the sizing die by using the top punch in the hole for the boolit. It works just fine as long as I can find the right top punch so it is the proper size. I also use the flat top nose punch if I can and this also helps with alignment issues.

[detox]

I need a small diameter .308 flat top punch. Does anybody know the Lyman or RCBS part number for this?

Here's a tip: Lymans sizers use a center sleeve that has a concave end. This allows clearance for sprue bulge on bottom of some bullets and seals bullet better at bottom so no excessive lube gets on base of bullet. RCBS sleeves are machined flat.

Polishing inside sizer with 1200 grit paper will make sizing easier without deforming bullet. You can do this by wraping paper tape and sandpaper around dowel then spin in drill. Not much is needed to get mirror smooth