Best Long Range Boolit Caliber???

[Matt3357]

I have a problem. I started casting a year or so ago and have been wanting to cast for everything in sight from then on. I live in IL so no real reason for a high powered rifle other than to punch paper. I have speedy cartridges for yotes, etc. The only thing I need now is a long range cartridge that will take cast at full house loads. As of right now 300 yards is a long shot for me and most shooting will be for target. What cartridge would you recommend?

Thanks,
Matt

P.S. Paper patching is not an option.

[felix]

Matt, this question is only yours to solve. The field is wide open because the typical constrains to boolits are not pertinent to bullets. First and foremost is the boolit, and then choosing the case size to drive the boolit in increments of circa 300 fps at muzzle to where the boolit is continuously stable at 300 hundred. And all this within your system capability, including SELF, to be consistent in all weather conditions. ... felix

[Reverend Recoil]

For cast bullet highpower rifle work at 300 yards a Winchester model 70 or Remington 40X in 308 Win or 30-06 Springfield will work well. You will need loads that feed well from the magazine for the rapid fire stages.

[sundog]

Billy Dixon.

[Bret4207]

30 cal has the most designs to choose from, but I don't think it's the ultimate caliber for cast. I think the 35 is about the ultimate, but the available designs aren't really suited to long range. In the end it's really up to you. Anything from 25 to 45 will work given the right rifle and boolit, but it may cost you some bucks to get what you want.

BTW- why is PP not an option?

[Nobade]

I'd agree that 35 calibers are really nice with smokeless powder. My 358 win will easily hit the really little dingers at 300M on our home range from the bench. But I also don't consider 300 to be very long range. When I really want to reach out and touch something I use my Sharps 45-70 with a Postell boolit and Swiss black powder. (though it does shoot very well with smokeless and paper patched boolits too.)

[felix]

The advantage of BP is the immediate realization of the maximum pressure the barrel/chamber will ever see. The results of the boolit acceleration curve can be readily visualized on the target. The softest primer (flint) can be used to best advantage with BP, for example. For battle ships, a strong lightning bolt with a tailored bag of priming compound can be used for priming a typical 26 mile smokeless powder charge having a very delayed maximum pressure point. Just trying to give a little background why you can choose a short barrelled configuration for minimizing vibe problems, but increasing recoil handling problems for the same or better accuracy at target. So, don't throw out real BP if you are deadly serious about your objective. Smokless all the way? My choice prolly would be the 32-35 caliber with a bunch of different boolits and a cabinent full of a mid-speed, case filling, powders. Those powder speeds seem to work best with a barrel length of exactly 21.75 inches when not using a vibe compensator to emulate that length with another barrel length. ... felix

[82nd airborne]

Sundog hit the nail on the head. If it can be done with a giant blackpowder propelled boolit, It can be done with anything.

[sundog]

..., and Frank Mayer, Bob McRae, and others. Here's a really good read, not just for the arms and ammo, but a sobering glimpse into the past.

http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resources/archives/five/buffalo.htm

[sundog]

Or, if something a little newer is what you had in mind...,

http://www.barrett.net/firearms/model82a1

I'd like to have one of these. And a place to shoot it. And someone to front the cost of my ammo.

[mpmarty]

375 H&H or 378 Weatherby would be my choice for long range "reach out and touch em"

[Artful]

I have a problem. I started casting a year or so ago and have been wanting to cast for everything in sight from then on. I live in IL so no real reason for a high powered rifle other than to punch paper. I have speedy cartridges for yotes, etc. The only thing I need now is a long range cartridge that will take cast at full house loads. As of right now 300 yards is a long shot for me and most shooting will be for target. What cartridge would you recommend?

Thanks,
Matt

P.S. Paper patching is not an option.

Well I live out in Arizona, and I have shot more than 300 yards.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/FAL/P1020504.jpg
closest target is 300 next is 500 and base of mtn 1000

The things that you have to consider are full power cast loads are limited
- I'm going to pic an arbitrary muzle velocity of 2700 fps as max speed to shoot for with your cast boolits - this with a good ballistically shaped boolit will leave you supersonic at up to 900-1000 yards.

The next thing to consider is the energy you want out of it - if your just punching paper that doesn't matter but the more energy you want to carry to the target the larger the bullet will need to be all else being equal.

The cartridge case can be straight or bottle neck but for me the boolet should not have the base of the bullet down below the neck when loaded, (not a problem in a straight walled case).

I have shot many cartridges with J-word projectiles and am currently using 243 WCF for this long range. If I was to choose one of my rifles to cast for just for 300 yards it would probably be either 357 Maximum, 375 big bore or 45-70 as I like stright wall cases for cast boolits and I can adjust bullet weight to get higher velocity or just live with their rainbow trajectory. If I wanted something with more range / velocity potential I would use bottleneck case like 308, .30'06, 358 wcf or 35 whelen or even 375 H&H.

Whatever you pick if you trying to go beyond 1000 - it's the rifleman and practice more than the cartridge, You can hit a reasonably sized target at 300 yards with a 44 mag pistol if you practice. :bigsmyl2:

[WILCO]

A M77 Mark II in .308 is a good place. :coffee:
Col. E.H. Harrison has done a lot of work on this subject with .308 and 30-06 cartidges in his book "Cast Bullets".

[redneckdan]

I have been pretty happy with my .375 H&H and paper patched. Have shot it out to 600yds. I think something like the armalite ar-30 chambered in .375 H&H improved would be my ultimate boolit sniping rifle.

[Larry Gibson]

As mentioned the .308W or 30-06 will do the job nicely to 500 yards with a 30-165 or 311299. Both bullets have the BC to hold velocity to 500 (stay sonic) if started out in the 1950 - 2100 fps range. That is also the velocity range were best accuracy will come with medium and slow powders. The .308W with a 12" twist is a good choice. Also a longer barrel of 24" minimum is nice to have. More than likely, if a scope is used, you will need a target model with 65+ moa adjustment and probably the 20 moa base. The larger BP cartridges with the right bullets are also decent but you get into other problems with them depending on the type of high power LR shooting you want to do.

Caveat; if you happen to have a good shooting M98 8x57 the 323471 has about the highest listed BC of regular cast bullets. I drive it with 1.5 moa accuracy at 1900 fps and it holds to 600 yards. Again though the scope must be set up right and have sufficient adjustment. It requires 36 moa to go from a 100 yard zero to a 600 yards zero with this bullet at 1900 fps. 311299 also has a very good cast bullet BC and also requires 36 moa at 2000 fps to go from a 100 to a 600 yard zero.

Larry Gibson

[Doc Highwall]

Also remember that as the caliber goes up so will the recoil. If you are just going to punch paper get some thing like a 308 Palma rifle with the slow 13" twist and have LOADS of fun experimenting and report back here with results.

[John Boy]

Matt, wished you had asked which caliber using black powder and smokeless.
From the black powder side, shooting match 800-900-1000yds, there are several calibers that are accurate ... 40-65, 45-70, 45-90 and 45-110. So it reduces to either the 40 or 45 caliber bullets depending on case length with the powder charge. And the powder used that wins the most matches is Swiss

[Artful]

Caveat; if you happen to have a good shooting M98 8x57 the 323471 has about the highest listed BC of regular cast bullets.

Larry Gibson

Larry, Where would I look for a BC chart of boolits? [smilie=1:

Only link I had was from
http://www.lasc.us/ConversionTables.htm

found some - see this link http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=94638

[Uncle Grinch]

I'd be curious where the 6.5 x 55 would fall at in BC. The 140 ~ 160 grain range should be fairly efficient.

[Larry Gibson]

Artful

As you mentioned the Lyman cast bullet manuel has some for the most popular of their bullets. I also measure actual BCs via the Oehler M43. Lyman's and the RCBS BC are good as long as the velocities are under 2000 fps. Once they climb over that the BCs get smaller the faster the bullet is pushed.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

I'd be curious where the 6.5 x 55 would fall at in BC. The 140 ~ 160 grain range should be fairly efficient.

The Lyman 266469 at 1600 fps is .320. The 3rd GB 130 gr bullet is .25 at 2100 fps. Lyman's 266455 is .26 at 2000 fps.

Larry Gibson

[mrbill2]

Anyone have the BC for a Lyman 311644.
TIA

[Blammer]

If I had to pick one for long range I'd have to pick the 35 whelen.

I'm thinking a 200gr aereyooo dynamic boolit at 2500fps would be pretty good for distance shooting.

[Artful]

I started a New thread with the BC's

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=94638

[Bret4207]

Larry, Where would I look for a BC chart of boolits? [smilie=1:

Only link I had was from
http://www.lasc.us/ConversionTables.htm


I guess I'll be typing up the lyman book those listed as I could find no internet link for it.

If you get Wolfes "The Art of Casting Bullets" there's a couple articles on figuring out BC of both pistol and rifle boolits IIRC.

[Dutch4122]

Matt-

The range you want to cover and the velocity you want to attain are not that hard to accomplish. This summer I worked up Cast Boolit loads for the .308 Winchester and 7.65x53 Mauser that would meet your needs. These loads were shot out of stock military rifles with issue iron sights. Accuracy out to 380 yards was more than I had hoped. We were shooting at a 12 inch rock painted orange. If the "nut behind the butt" was doing his job the rock was hit 7 or 8 times out of every ten shots, off the bench.

Some basic rules for cast loads up to 2,300 fps with heavy for caliber slugs:

1) Alloy, 50% wheelweight and 50% pure lead - water dropped from the mold. Size, lube & check them within 24 hrs after casting. Wait a minimum of 2 weeks before loading and shooting.

2) Boolit design, pick a slug that is heavy for caliber with a fat bore riding nose and a gas check. I used the NOE 316299 (218 grn) sized to .314" in both guns. The nose is .305" and it engraved on chambering which indicates it will securely ride the lands when fired. The engraved nose also ensures a "straight start" into the bore. If a medium weight boolit meets this criteria in your rifle then by all means try it.

3) Powder, this is very important. You want to start with powders that are considered to be a bit too slow burning for your caliber with jacketed bullets of the same or near weight. If any of them are indicated to be high speed & low pressure in that chambering then you need to look at that powder seriously. There is a valid reason for this. If you pick a powder that develops too much pressure before the boolit leaves the barrel you will overstress the alloy; and your groups will look like large shotgun patterns @ 100 yards, and then they will rise wildly off the target if you add more powder. At that point you know it is time to go to a slower burning powder. So, case volume & barrel length vs. powder chosen are a factor. I ended up using RL-19 in my 29 inch barreled 7.65 Argentine Mauser and IMR-4007-SC in my very short barreled Spanish FR-8 carbine with the above mentioned NOE 316299. One thing I learned was that the longer the barrel, the slower burning powder you will need in the same or similar case capacity cartridges. Another example is the 7.62x54r case which has capacity nearly that of the 30-06; and I've found that slow burning IMR-7828 is showing real promise with the 29 inch Mosin rifle barrel and a custom 238 grn slug. 2 inch groups @ 100 yards so far with just over 2,200 fps in the Mosin.

4) No fillers are needed or recommended with these loads.

5) I used CCI Large Rifle primers with these loads.

6) Sizing the boolit. Take a fired casing from the rifle and measure the inside neck diameter of that case. Size your boolit to .001" below that measurement. Don't worry if your rifle has a .308" bore and the case neck inside diameter is .312" or .313" etc. The boolit will just be swaged down to fit the bore when you fire it. This also keeps the boolit straight as it enters the bore.

7) Lube, pick a good one. I was using Lar45's BAC Lube with these loads. 357Maximum & BaBore use Mike's Mystery Lube. Bottom line is you can't just use Lee mule snot or NRA 50/50 and go fast & accurate.

I'm only getting started here with higher velocity in my rifles. My original intent was to create loads that would duplicate the original Military loads that these rifles were fed; and thereby make the issue sights more useful. The 7.65 Argentine is doing 2,160 fps and the Spansih FR-8 is doing 2,180 fps with these loads, verified by chronograph. The original load for the 1891 Argentine Mauser was a 210 grn Cupro-Nickle Round Nose @ 2,150 fps. The Spanish FR-8 has a 16.5 inch barrel so 2,180 fps isn't that bad; but there are a couple of other powders I plan to try in the future that may get me over 2,200 fps with the 218 grn NOE 316299.

Others (45 2.1, BaBore, 357Maximum) have gone faster than this with other calibers. I'll let them comment on they're results rather than speak for them.

Hope this helps,:grin:

[BABore]

Lies! All damn lies.


Everybody here knows you can't do that kind of stuff Matt. Especially with you being a cop. Everybody knows cops need at least a couple 17 rnd clips to hit much of anything and then only iff'in they got a belly full of nutty donuts and coffee.

You will now suffer the wrath of the "I can'ts", "I couldn'ts", followers of unfounded theories.


:bigsmyl2::takinWiz::killingpc

:kidding:

[Dutch4122]

Lies! All damn lies.
Everybody here knows you can't do that kind of stuff Matt. Especially with you being a cop. Everybody knows cops need at least a couple 17 rnd clips to hit much of anything and then only iff'in they got a belly full of nutty donuts and coffee.
You will now suffer the wrath of the "I can'ts", "I couldn'ts", followers of unfounded theories.
:bigsmyl2::takinWiz::killingpc
:kidding:

"PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN":groner:

Gee, that's really funny. I seem to remember you and a certain revolver launching some magical slugs of your own at long range. Must've been the super high tech sight system you had bolted on that sucker.

The great thing about it is we both had witnesses, four of them as a matter of fact.[smilie=s:[smilie=s:[smilie=s:[smilie=s:

Of course, we'll probably just get accused of some sort of conspiracy by the tin foil hat crowd.:veryconfu

All well and good. I'm having a blast working up cast boolit loads that shoot like real rifle rounds for my milsurps. Regardless of what anybody else thinks I'll just keep at it. Got a bunch of these old warhorses in the safe that deserve to be shot like rifles again.

Who knows, maybe somebody will take a shot & see that some things are not impossible if they are just given a honest try.

If not, the info is still out here. All they have to do is search.

Sure was fun watching that rock through the spotting scope get pounded by a 100+ year old battle rifle, eh?

[Artful]

moved to

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=94638

[Blackknight]

Hello Sundog,

I just read the account of the buff runners and really enjoyed it and have a printed account of the Billy Dixon shot at Adoby Walls.Those guys had the ideal shooting to become good long range shots. They were shooting at large dusty targets that were standing in dry dusty soil so their hits could be seen. The slugs traveled at speeds that enabled the shooter to see the results of the shot. My oldest son and I shot BPCR silhouette matches from the mid 1990's to 2003 and we put over a ton of 30/1 lead down range and got pretty good at the sport. Black powder works good for those soft heavy slugs.

Will see you at the state match Oct 9. Regards, Bob

[Larry Gibson]

Dutch4122

That's very good shooting, it shows what a good shot can do with those old rifles, even with 4 to maybe 6 moa ammo. I enjoy shooting such in my milsurps also. I sometimes catch a lot of criticism for it but pushing cast lads to such works for me and even milsurp ammo works for me. Of course backing off gets better accuracy but many times these loads are not regulated to the sights. It is fun to me to run the range up on the old rifles sights and smack rocks like that. Works for me anyways.

Larry Gibson

[BABore]

Dutch4122

That's very good shooting, it shows what a good shot can do with those old rifles, even with 4 to maybe 6 moa ammo. I enjoy shooting such in my milsurps also. I sometimes catch a lot of criticism for it but pushing cast lads to such works for me and even milsurp ammo works for me. Of course backing off gets better accuracy but many times these loads are not regulated to the sights. It is fun to me to run the range up on the old rifles sights and smack rocks like that. Works for me anyways.

Larry Gibson

Try 1-2 moa ammo. I witnessed the groups as did others. And, the 12" painted rock was closer to 8 x 10 inches.

[Dutch4122]

Larry-

I have always been conservative when "bragging" about groups I have shot with my rifles/cast boolit loads. Especially when it comes to the milsurp rifles; due to the fact that too many varialbles are at play from one rifle to the other of the same make & model. I always keep in the back of my mind that if I claim a certain load shoots 1" moa that others may not be able to match that in their rifle and may say I'm full of it.
Prior to the rock getting molested I had to deal with getting the sights regulated on the 1891 Argentine rifle and the Spanish Fr-8 carbine. 357Maximum, Badgeredd and 45 2.1 were a big help in getting this done. We fired only 1 or 2 shot groups while moving the sights due to limited ammunition, 47 rounds total in the box for the Argentine. I did not take a ruler to those targets. However, I agree with BaBore's estimate that both rifles were shooting at least 2" moa and maybe a little better based on the way the shots were tracking on the paper as we made sight adjustments. Once that was done I moved out to other targets @ 200 yards (rocks, steel plates & swingers, etc.) and was scoring hits on almost every shot. Somebody, I believe BaBore, encouraged me to take a shot at the 380 yard rock described earlier. I was shooting the Fr-8 at that time from the bench and 45 2.1 dialed the rear sight aperture over to the longer range setting. As reported earlier, I was hitting that rock 7 or 8 out of every 10 shots. I blame the misses, which were close, to "operator error."

We then adjusted the front sight on the 1891 Argentine rifle and got the gun hitting a couple of inches above point of aim @ 100 yards. Again I started shooting at 200 yard targets, scoring hits. After a few rounds I then moved out to the 380 yard rock and was getting the same results as with the other gun. I then turned the rifle over to 45 2.1, knowing that the 1891 Argentine is one of his favorite rifles, and he finished off the rest of the box at the 380 yard rock. Bob fired approximately 30 rounds at the rock and was scoring hits more frequently than I could.

We all took turns watching this through the spotting scopes. You could actually see the disturbance in the air made by the slug as it approached the rock and struck it. Misses were so close that it was scary. By the time Bob fired the last round the old girl was heated up so much that cosmoline was leaking from the barrel channel and stock. I had to let her cool down for a while before wiping the rifle down and putting it back in the case.

The nice thing was that both guns held their zero while getting hot.

[Larry Gibson]

I'm not sure what the rub is here. I said it was good shooting and a lot of fun of which I like to do the same thing. I'm not sure how BaBore's math comes out to 1-2 moa on a 8x10 target according to him or 12" target according to you with 2-3 misses per 10 shots. Doesn't matter though as it was still good shooting with a fun load you regulated to the sights. Perhaps your two compatriots just think everything I say is argueable but the fact is I was complimenting you and your shooting of those two milsurps. A good cast load that holds up at that range with that velocity is an achievement well done, regardles whether 2 moa or 4 moa. Some very fine shooting can be done with it as you posted. Using the heavier cast bullets with the slower burning powders to get decent accuracy at 2000+ fps in those older milsurps is something many of us have advised for many years. Again, good shooting.

Larry Gibson

[GabbyM]

Would an 11" twist barrel 30-06 stabilize the Lyman #311284 and #311299? Have also wondered about the Savage 7mm-08 rifles with 1-11½” twist barrels and the 160 grain Lyman #287641. High B.C. , for cast, bullets at 2,200 to 2,400 fps seems realistic. Then how ever far they'll go staying super sonic.

[Dutch4122]

Larry-


No rub here. I simply stated how things progressed that day. I did not take your post as argumentive or criticizing. Maybe we could chalk this misunderstaning up to the simple fact that the typed word sometimes comes across in a different tone than the author intends? I think we've both seen that happen too many times on this board.

My effort here is to simply try to get the info out on the board so that others may try the same loading techniques. We have a lot of people on this board who don't know what is really possible with rifle loads. They have been lulled into thinking that 16 grns of 2400 or 13 grns of Unique, etc. are all that their rifles will ever be capable of.

Also, I am honest to a fault when it comes to my results. I won't claim a one inch group @ 100 yds unless I have shot such and can back it up either with witness(es) or pictures. I will post what happened, and only that. Prior to that day, I was shooting these same loads; but with my old glasses which were in serious need of replacement. The rear sights were getting fuzzy and I was holding print out at arms length to read it. 3" and 4" groups @ 100 yds were the norm during this testing two weeks prior; and 357Maximum was at the range with me. He can verify my frustration that day. 5 days prior to the final sight adjustments and "rock pounding fest" I picked up a set of contacts from the Eye Doctor with a new prescription. My "new eyes" obviously played a big part in the groups tightening up @ 100 yds.:D However, when I turned one of the rifles over to a much better shot than I, he was hitting the rock @380 yds more frequently than I was; and his misses were much closer. That was my reason for mentioning "the nut behind the butt," namely me.

I was also careful to mention that no ruler was used on the loads shot with the 7.65 Argentine or the 7.62 Spanish Fr-8. The way the shots were tracking on paper @ 100 yds as the adjustments were made it did appear to me as well that I was in the 1" to 2" zone. I intended this to come across as an estimate of what the gun was doing with the load @ 100yds. Maybe I should have made that more clear; and I apologize to anyone who percieved it another way.

Maybe BaBore and I didn't estimate the rock to be the same size. That's all I can figure there. I know that nobody measured it.

You're right. It was a blast and I can't wait to do it again. Especially once I get the Mosin Nagant(s) shooting that well. That, as you well know, is no small feat.[smilie=b:

I'm exited about these results and I hope to duplicate them with other calibers.

And, last but not least, thanks for the compliment. I mean that seriously.

-Matt

[Artful]

moved to

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=94638

[mpmarty]

Having moved here from Nevada thirty years ago I sorely miss not having any long range shooting available. In the mid seventies I had a Schmidt-Rubin model 96/11 that had a barrel that was like 30" long and a 1:11 twist or thereabouts. Had a large supply of Swiss surplus ammo that had a very long bore riding round nosed bullet. Berdan primed and mildly corrosive but that old honey would reach way out there with surprising accuracy. We used to shoot "designated rocks" at ranges close to five hundred yards. Or seven hundred arshins if you prefer.

[Artful]

sort of interesting to look at some of the best BC cast bullets..

457121
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/506017.jpg
http://www.tmtpages.com/web_images/pages/Lyman%20Mold%20457121%20%20439_gr.htm

375449
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/412412.jpg

323471
http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/SciFiJim_photobucket/323471HPplainbase.jpg
http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/photos/mn07.jpg

323378
http://www.three-peaks.net/images/323378_243g.gif

311284
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/474107.jpg

311467
http://www.castpics.net/Lymans/311467_177g.gif

[Nrut]

Dutch4122,
Thanks for posting the info that you did in post #26..
We need to see more of that type of information around here for those of us who want to learn how to shoot cast at higher velocities.
:Fire:

[Dutch4122]

Dutch4122,
Thanks for posting the info that you did in post #26..
We need to see more of that type of information around here for those of us who want to learn how to shoot cast at higher velocities.
:Fire:


Nrut, you are more than welcome. Anything I can do to help just shoot me a PM.

I gotta say here that I give full credit to 45 2.1, BaBore, and 357Maximum as they are who I learned these techniques from. All three have done way more, and probably have forgot more than I know about high velocity with cast boolits. I was just following their directions that are based on their experience. They made it easy for me.:drinks:

[Larry Gibson]

Dutc4122

Looks like we are singing off the same page Mat. As I said I always like pushing cast bullet loads in my milsurps to regulate the load to the sights. Don't always get the best accuracy there but it usually is as good if not better than milsurp ammo. To me, that is usable accuracy with those rifles. I can get very good accuracy, as most every one else does, down around 1600 - 1900 fps with cast bullets in most of those cartridges. Accuracy can be really good out to 300 yards but most of those loads don't regulate to the sights. Most of those older rifles don't have the sights, unless altered, to take advantage of the slower, more accurate loads at the longer range. I've one of the Lee GB 314291 moulds that really casts over size (.315x.305) and is and excellent bullet in my MNs. At 175 gr fully dressed it really shoots nice. I'm casting up some more 314299s and will do a long range test out to 500 yards with both out of my Russian sniper. Should be fun.

Larry Gibson

[Dutch4122]

Dutc4122

Looks like we are singing off the same page Mat. As I said I always like pushing cast bullet loads in my milsurps to regulate the load to the sights. Don't always get the best accuracy there but it usually is as good if not better than milsurp ammo. To me, that is usable accuracy with those rifles. I can get very good accuracy, as most every one else does, down around 1600 - 1900 fps with cast bullets in most of those cartridges. Accuracy can be really good out to 300 yards but most of those loads don't regulate to the sights. Most of those older rifles don't have the sights, unless altered, to take advantage of the slower, more accurate loads at the longer range. I've one of the Lee GB 314291 moulds that really casts over size (.315x.305) and is and excellent bullet in my MNs. At 175 gr fully dressed it really shoots nice. I'm casting up some more 314299s and will do a long range test out to 500 yards with both out of my Russian sniper. Should be fun.

Larry Gibson


Larry, PM sent.

[357maximum]

I actually measured the rock. It was and still is 8X10 inches and is badly needing a new paint job and possible replacement after that rockfest that afternoon. I was amazed by how well Matt got them old "as issued" war relics to shoot. I was also impressed by a few other feats that weekend that "cannot be done with cast" . I will say this ....the groups on paper were an honest 1.5 MOA, and the FPS was accurate on that cronograph. I remember it quite well as I was pretty darn happy to shoot that size group+ with my sporterized guns at near that speed and then Matt goes and tweaks his "unmolested" versions to shoot better than I was doing with my scoped sporter versions at them velocities.......you tend not to forget such things.

Matt's success all hinged on one thing....A VERY OPEN MIND........he worked his butt off to get there and did not go into his quests with a closed mind or preconcieved limits of any sort. He had a mission and he accomplished it rather beautifully if I have to say so myself. I wish I had the load workup patience/time/powder/desire he has shown with the loads for his "yet to be sporterized" :wink: rifles. He did and can do everything posted above and more...anybody can if they have the right amount of "want to". IT CAN BE DONE .....CAST DOES NOT LIMIT PERFORMANCE WHEN EVERYTHING IS IN HARMONY.

[FAsmus]

Gentelmen;

Passing over the digressions let me say a couple things about long range shooting with shoulder-fired arms.

The deal here is long range performance ~ this is no mystery ~ learn from the big boys in Naval artillery: The bigger, the better.

Back in 2005 I started out to build a cast bullet rifle that would win the Montana 1000-yard Championship, shooting cast bullets. Believe me when I say that NO, that is NO 30 caliber rifle will stand a chance in this kind of shooting up against a tolerably good 45/90 loaded with 540 grain bullets and certainly not up against a good 50/90 or 50/110 loaded with 700 grain bullets.

The 30s, as loaded in the jacketed game, will most definitely shoot better than a cast bullet 50 but, neither will they shoot with, say, a 50 BMG. This being a cast site lets us stick with the subject.

I've fired plenty of both calibers at long range and there is absolutely no question that a 30 caliber pill will drift far more than a heavy 50 caliber will in the same exact wind.

If you want long range performance build yourself the biggest, heaviest rifle that you can tolerate shooting and go get some practice.

For me, this has been a 50/90 Sharps Straight loaded with a Jones 700 grain bullet. ~ Two 1st places at 1000 yards, once tied for first, lost the tie-breaker and came in 2nd.

Good evening,
Forrest

[45 2.1]

:D However, when I turned one of the rifles over to a much better shot than I, he was hitting the rock @380 yds more frequently than I was; and his misses were much closer. That was my reason for mentioning "the nut behind the butt," namely me. You might find that the '91 will shoot a little left and low at that distance (400 yard setting on the ladder) when you put it on paper. It did for me. As for the rock... I picked it and set it up... it was 8x10. Between the intermittent shade and sun and having the paint beat off it, it was a little difficult to see at times. Nice rifle and loads Matt.................

You're right. It was a blast and I can't wait to do it again. Especially once I get the Mosin Nagant(s) shooting that well. That, as you well know, is no small feat.[smilie=b: No problem if your using a M28 or M39.


-Matt