Problem seating boolits.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I have a Lee .358 148 gr TL WC. I have beagled the mold to .360 since my throats on my revolver measure .3584 . When I seat the boolit with my Lee die set and pull the boolit, they measure .358. I have removed the carbide sizer on the die set and nothing is touching the brass when seating. I have even used a plastic hammer to seat the boolit on a dummy round and even then, it will measure .358 when pulled. It seems that the bands of the boolit are being squeezed down by the brass when seating. I am using WW with 2% Tin. Do these TL boolits compress down when seating? I am using Starline brass.
Or should I just get a different set of dies and if so, what.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I think a Lyman "M die" will help. You need to order it with a .359" expander. This will give you .001" tension on the boolit, which should be enough to hold it with the low-recoil level of your target loads, but also should keep the case from squeezing the bullet, sizing it down artificially. Make sure you don't use a Lee Factory Crimp Die with the sizer, because it will do the same thing - squeezing down the bullet, ruining all the careful preperation you've done..

[Calamity Jake]

Your .3584 throats are going to size that .360 boolit as it passes thru anyway, so what is the problem?
What does the bore measure?

[462]

I'm going to recommend an M die, also.

[Doby45]

I would recommend the M die also, or traditional lube grooved boolits. They seem to be able to take the squeezing better.

[winelover]

I'm going to recommend an M die, also.

Are the Lyman M dies still being made because neither Mid-South or Natchez carry them?

Winelover

[DLCTEX]

Order from Lyman.

[high standard 40]

The RCBS Cowboy dies also offer an expander designed for cast. I had the same problem with my 44 Mag dies and the RCBS Cowboy expander solved my problem.

[noylj]

The bullet should be a snug slide-through fit with the throats. 0.358" sounds correct for the throats on your cylinder.
The question is: how do they shot?

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Thanks for the replies. The boolits leave a little lead in the cylinder and forcing cone. None in the barrel. I will try to find a M die. I have been messing around with the Lee seating die and found out that it IS reducing the diameter of the boolit when I seat it. I went out to the garage and wrapped some emery cloth around a drill bit and have been spinning it on the inside of the seating die. It has taken quite awhile but the boolits are keeping a diameter of .359 right now. I may try a little more. I can't remember what the bore size is but I know it is smaller than the throats. It might be being picky but I don't want ANY lead to form from shooting. I know it can be done so now I have to keep trying. I sure do appreciate all of the help in figuring this out. I'm not a big fan of Lee dies right now.

edit: I was using a unlubed boolit when I tried seating using a plastic hammer. I guess the friction was too much and compressed the boolit. I used a lubed boolit tonight and it kept its diameter. (get frustrated and all kinds of things can happen)

[462]

Charlie,
I found that all my Lee handgun dies were putting the squeeze on my boolits. I sold them off and replaced them with Lyman, because of their M die, and have not had a problem since. I still use Lee neck sizing dies for the rifle calibers, though.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Sounds good to me. I just can't find out on the Lyman site if their M die comes in different sizes for the .38-.357. I sent them an email and will see what they say.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

They never got back to me but I ordered an "M" die anyway and will see how it works when delivered.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Well, I got the "M" die and loaded up some rounds. They looked different. Kind of like a snake that swallowed something. I pulled a boolit and it was NOT resized! I went to my brothers farm and shot some. No leading. Thanks to all for the heads up about the M die. Works great! The only thing I have to watch out for is that this setup has changed my way of loading. I have a Lee Turret press and used to use just four dies for loading. Now I use the decapper, M die, seating die and crimp die. I put the powder in with an RCBS powder measure that is mounted next to the turret. I used to use a Lee disc setup that was on the expander die. It may sound wierd but now I have to make sure that I took the round out of the press, put powder in it and then seat the boolit. Before, the powder was dropped when I sized the case and pull the handle and the boolit was seated.. Small change but it thowing me off my routine. I will get used to it but I was surprised that this change would create a problem.

[462]

Good news, Charlie.

A change in the loading routine is not easy to adjust to. I just bought another powder measure and had to mount it in a different place than the original. Used it for the first time, this afternoon and it'll take some time to get accustomed to it.

[noylj]

Are you not sizing your cases?
Lyman makes a powder-through expander die and the various sized inserts that are supposed to be like the M-die. You would still have to manually charge the cases, but you would get them expanded at the same time.
I have been more then happy with the Lee Powder-Through Expander dies, even using them as just the expander.
A good machinist could make a great expander by combining the M-die expander design with the Lee die operation. Go to:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/46

and read about some very interesting improvements to the standard expander die.
If I was to select one die that needs to be redesigned and improved, it is the common expander die.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hi Charlie; REALLY happy to hear that my suggestion worked for you. I actually have the Lyman powder through expander set, and it does set/bell-mouth the case just like the M-die. I bought it because I was thinking of mounting my Lyman 55 powder measure to it, but I also like that it came with all the different expander tips that I wanted in one purchase. Turns out I never have mounted the powder measure on it...

It sounds from your description that you're loading one round at a time running it through all the steps at once? I actually find that slower/less efficient than using the batch system, even with a turret press (unless you have the Lee Turret that automatically turns the head). Do you prime on the press, or do you use a hand-priming or other off-press priming tool?

I'm thinking you can re-define your process and be safe and just as or maybe even more efficient than before.

I'd look at running batches of about 100 and do the de-prime and bell-mouth on the press, then, do all the priming and powder-charging off-press, and then return to the press for seat and crimp. This is basically what I do with my single-stage right now, and it's not that slow.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I have the Lee Turret press. I decap and prime, expand the case with the M die, take the case out and drop my charge in, look down to make sure it dropped, seat the boolit and then crimp. I don't know if that is the best way but that's what is going on now.