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garandsrus
09-15-2006, 05:00 PM
Hi,

I was shooting at the range shooting a 1903A3 (30-06) with Lyman 311041 and 13 gr Red Dot shooting a steel plate and after several shots I felt some gas/particles on my face (was wearing glasses!) which was definitely not normal. The bolt was stuck closed.

We used a rubber mallet to pound the bolt open and eject the spent case, two picture of which are attached.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m245/johntlarson/casehead.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m245/johntlarson/100_1177.jpg

I have never seen a case head deformed like this before... The primer pocket is now .290 at it's widest and .283 at it's narrowest. A normal primer pocket is about .225! The case has a bulge at the base also where it is apparently unsupported in the 03A3 chamber. The case head is .541 at it's widest, compared to .a normal case at 470.

The primer was blown out of the case and flattened but of course was trapped by the bolt. It fell out when the bolt was opened. The front of the case looks completely normal.

I know that the previous bullet was not stuck in the barrel as it rang the plate. The shot that did this also rang the plate, about 6" at 100 yds!

There was no damage to the shooter or firearm... My question is: What happened???

John

ssgt
09-15-2006, 05:23 PM
I had the same thing happen with an Enfield in .308. Case finally came out looking like a 30-30! As a matter of fact, it was with 12 grains of Reddot. Everyones first reaction was ..."too much powder" but after lengthy consideration I firmly believe it was too LITTLE powder.

Ive seen several blown firearms and cartridges and almost everytime it was caused by light loads of fast powder. A friend of mine always says that more guns are blown up by to little powder rather than too much, and the more I think about it the more I think hes right.

Scrounger
09-15-2006, 05:24 PM
Most likely scenario is a double charge of powder. There is also a possibility that SOME of the previous powder drop stuck in the drop tube and then came out with the next charge. I had that happen in a .17 Remington with AA2015 powder. Had to send it back to the factory to get the bolt open, don't remember what all they replaced. And they didn't do it for free, either. Made an iron clad rule after that: Nothing but ball powders in the .17 caliber cases with those narrow necks and that narrow drop tube.

felix
09-15-2006, 06:35 PM
SEE or a "double" charge will do this. Make sure with fast burning, especially flakey powder of any speed, you bang the powder dumper machine with authority on the dumping stroke. Don't worry, my powder machine was bought in the 70's and is still tight. Use the pistol sized (hole) drum whenever possible, and for rifle charges that actually requires the rifle drum, drop in two pistol sized loads. Use the flashlight when tray loading no matter what. ... felix

Dale53
09-15-2006, 06:46 PM
This appears to me to be a classic case of a double charge. Everything that I have read regarding SEE in a rifle requires a small charge of SLOW burning powder.

The Red Dot load is a safe load - you apparently had a double charge. You'll be surprised how easy it is to dump a double charge. The suggestion that you had a powder hangup is also a possibility but is not apt to happen with Red Dot. On the other hand, 700X is NOTORIOUS for hanging up (I have viewed 700X under magnification and the powder grains look like lace doilies around the edge and this can "interlock" grains and hang up in the drop tube.

I am happy for you that no damage resulted to the operator.

FWIW
Dale53

45 2.1
09-15-2006, 06:50 PM
Adouble charge of Red Dot would do more than whats shown. He got a funnel hangup with part of the previous charge in that case. Once the Dots get much above 40 KSI, they go bananas when overcharged.

swheeler
09-15-2006, 07:01 PM
Scarey stuff there John, count your lucky stars!

David R
09-15-2006, 07:04 PM
Red dot will hang up in the funnel or even my powder measure. I check each case with a "stick" or flashlight. I have had many cases where one is undercharged and the next is overcharged. I have burned at least 4 pounds in the last 2 years.

David

catkiller45
09-15-2006, 07:30 PM
John,,

Just a thought john,but it has been my experince that some of the Remington cases have been double punched..Check the size of the flash hole..I have had this happen with a 221 Fireball,and a 308...But of course Remington would not admit to it..

I really don;t think your powder charge had anything to do with it..Another thing,have you had the head spacing checked on this rifle??

Some of the 303 British rifle will do this...Let me know,ok......Johnny

catkiller45
09-15-2006, 07:34 PM
John,

One other thing comes to mind and that is,that with a charge simalair to ,the powder may have all been in the front part of the case..This is why I use just a tad of tissue paper in the case to hold the charge up against the primer..Johnny

garandsrus
09-15-2006, 07:40 PM
All,

I noticed the size of the flash hole, but with the entire case head expanding, I chalked it up to the flash hole expanding along with the case head.

I would guess that a 1+ (less than double) funnel hangup charge may be the most likely candidate. I thought it was really strange that the front portion of the case didn't have any damage, but that may be because the barrel restricted it's movement.

I haven't ever had Red Dot hang up that I know of when I have weighed charges while adjusting the powder measure. After it's adjusted, I load using a progressive press and there's no powder checker die (Dillon 550B). It sounds like a marked stick may be in order...

John

StarMetal
09-15-2006, 07:55 PM
garandsrus,

Well you're right about the front part of the case didn't have anywhere to go. Remember now the 1903's and A3's have a coned breech and this has always been subject to negative talk about that part of the case being unsupported...so I can see what has happened there happening.

45 2.1 is right about Red going ballistic above a certain rate, in fact this is one of the choice powders for maniac bomb makers.

Joe

45 2.1
09-15-2006, 08:03 PM
One thing that helps a lot with the Dot powders is letting the rotor fill up, if you cycle the rotor fast, it gives varying charges. I had Green Dot do the in some 44s a couple of weeks ago and could see it in the loading block. I let the rotor fill slowly and the uneven charges stopped. Spider webs in the funnel don't help things either, especially when it takes awhile to find it.

StarMetal
09-15-2006, 08:08 PM
Boy, I'm sure glad my Belding Mull powder measure doesn't have a hangup or double charge problem.

Joe

DOUBLEJK
09-15-2006, 08:41 PM
I'm glad no injury occurred to anything but your case....

I use alot of Red Dot these days as it is very bulky for its weight and fills cases better than other powders in this speed range... however in my Uniflow or Little Dandy measures it is not as consistant in charge weight as I like...it varies several tenths as oppossed to ball powders that meter spot on.... so in the past I didn't use it much as trickling them took more time than I wanted to use... But now I have a Pact Digital scale with the Dispenser and for Red Dot it hits almost all spot on...I just dump the occasional drop that is 1 tenth off back in the hopper n hit the dispense button agian...:-D

Like I said I'm using it alot in every thing from 32-20's too 8X57's and have become quite attached to it as velocity spreads are extremely low and accurracy is as good as my full house loads but I plink way more than hunt and love its economy and mild recoil...:-D

Now for a question of the more learned folk's herebouts....

The comment about to little Red Dot has me a bit befuddled...

How can a low charge of a fast powder that burns up before the bullet even exits the case cause pressures to go higher?:confused:
I have used Red Dot as well as Bullseye as powder for squib loads...
Maybe I've just been lucky but I've shot 1000's of em and never experienced a supprise in pressure going high...
Seems to me there is only so much energy available here and I don't see how with even less powder you could create more pressure with a powder this fast...

I can understand where a low charge of a slow powder say 4831 at 40% load density containing more energy than a small charge of fast powder say Red Dot at 10% load density could possibly change its burn characteristics too faster resulting in an unexpected spike in pressure by releasing that energy too quick....

No_1
09-15-2006, 08:56 PM
If what you stated below is true then I wonder which case in your stash is missing the partial charge that may have caused this AND keeping with that theory it could be possible you have one loaded with a super small charge. I wonder what kind of damage this condition could cause when you drop the hammer on THAT one?

Just my .02,

Robert


I would guess that a 1+ (less than double) funnel hangup charge may be the most likely candidate. I thought it was really strange that the front portion of the case didn't have any damage, but that may be because the barrel restricted it's movement.
John

felix
09-15-2006, 11:45 PM
A SEE by definition is when the all, or some, powder burns all at once, with no progression whatsoever. Can happen anytime with any powder formulation. Yes, the fast powders especially should (must, actually) be against the primer. ... felix

Bass Ackward
09-16-2006, 09:05 AM
When you operate with small charges of let's call it super fast powder for a cartridge, (you know, one where your load volume is less than 50% of capacity), then you better prep your brass well and concievably use a filler. I suppose most people have seen a cut out of a case with a primer firing over the years and see the ventury or fire fan.

Now suppose that you have a burr inside the case where the flash hole was punched in. That burr is going to block or divert that ventury. That case can be loaded 100 times without incident. But if it is loaded and chambered at 6 o'clock and the small charge is mostly hidden by it, then problems can develop. Or maybe the primer doesn't burn with the same force. Here you are trusting your situation to someone you don't even know on a .05 product.

I deburr every case I use and I still won't go to those cost saving charges. Because they do save ..... till they don't. Then the price you might pay may be your fault, no one's fault, but it will be paid just the same. Everytime you pull that trigger and ignite a round, you takes your chances.

StarMetal
09-16-2006, 10:34 AM
Bass,

I mentioned SEE and these light charges of fast burning powders in large cases in a recent other threat on fillers. One of the posters, who is obvisionly against fillers, mocked me when I said to give us all the details when he eventually blows his rifle up. Hopefully he's reading this threat and seeing that I'm not the only one talking about this terrible event.

Joe

Buckshot
09-16-2006, 10:54 AM
.................This is what a double charge of H4227 under a Lyman 311284 does to a low number Springfield:

http://www.fototime.com/88A840C9F95788A/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/C5A3F0F0ECC2A14/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/2FC3C32627AA38A/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/DD06DD62FE7C95C/standard.jpg

In the bottom left corner of the bottom right photo is all that remains of the casehead. All the yellow color is vaporized brass on the action pieces. Both bolt lugs were cracked. You can't see it in the photo but the safety lug mashed back into the right bridge wall (as it's supposed to) and put a big ole dent into it.

I could say that the bolt was still lying there in the action, because it was. However that doesn't mean anything at all as effectively there wasn't really much action left! Had I tilted the rifle upside down the bolt would have just fallen to the ground.

I got a scratch at the hairline on my forehead. Lucky?

BTW, that 215gr boolit tripped the chronograph at 3059 fps. No leading either :-)

................Buckshot

StarMetal
09-16-2006, 10:57 AM
Buckshot,

Seems your poster rifle is being fired with a double charge of posting. Fortunately this isn't harmful to the shooter poster. [smilie=1::drinks::Fire:
:kidding: What seems to be the problem there pardner?

Joe

DOUBLEJK
09-16-2006, 05:15 PM
Would somebody with a link to documented SEE occurances with Fast powder please post a link....
All the documented cases I can find were with low charges of Slow powder...
And I can't find the reported occurances of a lab recreating any either but find several references to such...

Bass Ackward
09-16-2006, 06:21 PM
Would somebody with a link to documented SEE occurances with Fast powder please post a link....
All the documented cases I can find were with low charges of Slow powder...
And I can't find the reported occurances of a lab recreating any either but find several references to such...


John,

You are going to have a tough time finding documented SEE experiences with fast powder. And that is simple. Because people don't want to believe that it CAN happen. It kills their dream of cheap shooting.

People simply dismiss fast powder occurrances as operator error of double charging. While that certainly is a distinct possibility, it doesn't cover all the cases. It is easier to accept with slow powder because they believe any idiot would notice a double charge, so it has to be SEE.

SEE is simply a larger percentage of powder igniting all at once than would occur normally. The larger the unfilled volume and the heavier the bullet, the more likely the conditions. Ask a BP guy about leaving airspaces between the powder and bullets. BP is pretty fast burning too.

DOUBLEJK
09-16-2006, 06:45 PM
Bass
I believe your right....we're never gonna see it repeated repeatedly enough to be air tight convincing....
I have as mentioned been loading fast powders mostly Bullseye and Red Dot low in cases for years and have never had a pressure excurssion....not to say others haven't had em...anythings possible I know...
I've been in on only 2 guns that were blown apart and both were reloader error not SEE....
#1 was a occasional reloader that just purchased a Ruger SBH 44mag and 100 cases he reloaded with what he thought was 24gr. H2400 behind a commercial cast 429421...his 1st shot ever outa his new pistola blew off the topstrap and the cylinder blew apart at the chamber either side of the round fired...we were the only 2 at the range at the time no injury occured to either of us....we went to his home and pulled his remaining loads apart...he had mistakenly used Unigue not H2400....he had Unique H2400 and 4831 on his bench and Unique was in his powder measure and his remaining 99 .44 loads...
#2 was a co-worker that reloaded for his BLR in .308 for the 1st time ever with a Lee Loader he got at a garage sale and powder from same in an unmarked plastic bottle...[smilie=1:
He showed up at my place to sight in for an upcoming elk hunt with a pocketful a mismatched ammo....military and assorted factory and his new handloads...he never mentioned his loads were not all factory stuff but we discussed his hodgepodge choice for elk...neway we proceeded to tack up a target and get him on paper at 25yds...group was probably 3" after only using 1 load of 5 that looked the same visually outa his collection so we matched up 10 more as close as we could and his 1st shot scattered pieces a the gun....yikes!!!!
Then he tells me bout his reloads....yep these were them....he'd been told by the seller it was military surplus powder in that plastic bottle and to just fill em up ta the top n whack seat a bullet over em...he did just that n the results wern't purty....

felix
09-16-2006, 07:25 PM
I have a documented situation where a case full of powder (old H322) went off in a very tightly chambered 6ppc as it was tapped out from the muzzle (because the case neck was too fat to shoot!). Vibration set that sucker off, and the primer was still intact as brand new after the case was taken from his wife's stomach during surgery. She died within the day. ... felix

Scrounger
09-16-2006, 07:57 PM
I have a documented situation where a case full of powder (old H322) went off in a very tightly chambered 6ppc as it was tapped out from the muzzle (because the case neck was too fat to shoot!). Vibration set that sucker off, and the primer was still intact as brand new after the case was taken from his wife's stomach during surgery. She died within the day. ... felix

I remember reading about that, Felix. You think it was detonated by vibration? I've always favored the theory that the cleaning rod forced the bullet back into the case, compressing the powder and raising its temperature to the ignition point. Just my thought.

StarMetal
09-16-2006, 08:12 PM
What Felix said about that round going off is amazing. I find it hard to believe in comparing it with other events. One is where the FBI were explaining how a bomber they had caught made his bomb. They were simple pipebombs that he filled a pipe with Red Dot. Here's the interesting thing, not only did he pack the powder in the pipe, he pounded it into a single solid plastic mass with a rod and a hammer. He also had done this more then one time as me made quite a few of these bombs. Now I'm equating Felix's story with a possible compression of the powder. This may not be the case. Maybe something else caused that powder to ignite...but what?

Joe

felix
09-16-2006, 08:15 PM
Yeah, could have been a temp thing, but not likely. If it was a temp dealie, the temp was created by the boolit being slipped out of the case neck. However, I think that it was vibration, and the only proof that we would have is by repeating the experiment with a wooden dowel. I will never forget that story, and now use only a wooden dowel for knocking out a loaded round. ... felix

Bullshop Junior
09-16-2006, 11:34 PM
I had something dangerous happen today. I was out sighting in my 223, and had some ammo that the Napa guy had bought a couple years ago from a reloader. He gave it to dad for better ammo, and dad gave it to me. I sighted in the gun for cast, and tried some of the Napa stuff, and it did not shoot that good, and the cases were so old that they crumbled apart when I ejected them. Well I was shooting them at the steel plate, and had 3 left, put one in the chamber, closed the bolt click...I waited, recocked click. I waited several seconds and opened the bolt, pulled out the cartridge and decided that I would throw it off in the brush when I went up range, so I set it on the bench. I went to chamber and looked at the one that I had just pulled out, and it did not have a bullet in it. I pulled out the one I just put in there and tried to get the bullet out. I needed two hands to work, so I went to put the cartridge in my hand on the bench and looked at the other one again......POOF!! The powder ignited. It shredded the case and gave me a good scare. I looked again and the bottom half of the case is sitting on the bench with parts all around it. I threw the rest of that ammo in the trash and did no more shooting today.
DANIEL/BS JR.

JohnH
09-16-2006, 11:39 PM
Glad you're OK Buckshot

Linstrum
09-16-2006, 11:39 PM
This is pretty interesting!

First, garandsrus, I am thankful that nothing bad happened to you or your rifle. The condition of the case is classic high-pressure metal extrusion and was definitely caused by a pressure that exceeded the approximately 75,000-psi compression flow point of unsupported cartridge brass. The strength of cartridge brass is the main factor that limited Roy Weatherby shortly after World War Two in his first experiments with working up safe hot loads for his magnum rifles. Fortunately, the strength of steel used in modern guns will handle 75,000 psi no problem.

What Felix says is darn good advice about using a wooden rod! I have always used wooden rods for working with exposed powder in barrel work. I also keep my head out of the line of fire in case the rod gets blown out of the bore. Back in the 1830s there was a guy named Phineas Taylor who survived a powder ramrod shot through his head when he didn’t keep out of the way while inserting bags of black powder down a blast hole on one of the first railroad construction projects in the United States. Lucky guy! Where there isn’t any danger from powder I use brass rods for barrel work to keep from scratching up the bores. I use 3/16” and 1/4” by 36” long brass brazing rods bought from a welding supply shop because brazing rod alloy is pretty strong stuff and is non-sparking.

The cartridge that went off killing the owner’s wife could have been from very strong agitation along the line like Felix mentioned, and other possibilities could include a hot metal shaving created by the rod used to drive the cartridge out. If it was a steel shaving it could have been burning, remember good old flint and steel! It doesn’t take flint to make steel spark, just anything hard enough to scrape even a very small shaving. Also, a shaving would not have to be burning or even red hot to set off powder. Ordinary paper will ignite at 451° Fahrenheit. Ask any machinist about hot shavings, even small ones! One time when I was working with a logger buddy up in Oregon back in 1970 I had a Caterpillar D7 with a winch on the back and a lot of 5/8” cable. One day we were working late and after the sun went down I was flat amazed at the sparks that literally sprayed from the cable when it was wound up onto the winch drum under load. The cable was not moving fast at all and wasn’t even dragging on anything, it was just the individual steel wire strands flexing under load that created enough force to scrape off little microscopic steel bits that ignited. It looked like a big sparkler mounted on the back of my dozer! I stopped the winch and got the Igloo cooler from the crew truck and poured water on the winch as the cable came in since we were in the woods and it was dry. The National Fire Code requires the use of non-steel, non-sparking tools in explosive environments for a very, very good reason. Non-sparking tools are usually one of the true copper bronze alloys like phosphor bronze or beryllium copper.

waksupi
09-17-2006, 12:08 AM
I had something dangerous happen today. I was out sighting in my 223, and had some ammo that the Napa guy had bought a couple years ago from a reloader. He gave it to dad for better ammo, and dad gave it to me. I sighted in the gun for cast, and tried some of the Napa stuff, and it did not shoot that good, and the cases were so old that they crumbled apart when I ejected them. Well I was shooting them at the steel plate, and had 3 left, put one in the chamber, closed the bolt click...I waited, recocked click. I waited several seconds and opened the bolt, pulled out the cartridge and decided that I would throw it off in the brush when I went up range, so I set it on the bench. I went to chamber and looked at the one that I had just pulled out, and it did not have a bullet in it. I pulled out the one I just put in there and tried to get the bullet out. I needed two hands to work, so I went to put the cartridge in my hand on the bench and looked at the other one again......POOF!! The powder ignited. It shredded the case and gave me a good scare. I looked again and the bottom half of the case is sitting on the bench with parts all around it. I threw the rest of that ammo in the trash and did no more shooting today.
DANIEL/BS JR.

A very good example, of why you never shoot unknown handloads! I have to know someone VERY well to want to shoot thier handloads.

felix
09-17-2006, 12:10 AM
Spark was not possible in this situation because the case was loaded with boolit. BR actions are so overbuilt that a weakling's little finger can close the bolt down to full battery. That is what happened. The bolt was forced open, hopefully with a rubber hammer or at least a stick, and taken out breaking off the case rim I can only suppose. The the ramrod came out with the wife holding the butt of the stock. And, then came the russian roulette. ... felix

waksupi
09-17-2006, 12:10 AM
Rick, good to hear no serious injury. Great going on that velocity, buddy!

garandsrus
09-17-2006, 01:19 AM
Can someone with ballistic software say how many grains of Red Dot it would take to generate 75,000 lbs of pressure in a 30-06? What would the fill density be? Also, how many pounds of pressure does a normal 13 gr load generate?

Thanks,
John

DOUBLEJK
09-17-2006, 02:35 PM
John
Checking some older Lyman manuals they list 13.5gr of Red Dot with #31141 at 32,500 to 35,000
I don't have a hard number that would do 75,000 but it would be less than double the charge of 13gr for sure

Char-Gar
09-17-2006, 07:06 PM
One cannot rule out a Secondary Explosive Effect (SEE), but a multiple powder charge is much more likely.

KCSO
09-17-2006, 10:05 PM
I nearly blew up a 45-70 with a light charge of powder one time. I had just swabbed the bore and was starting to reload when, God knows why, I looked down the tube. The cleaning patch had come apart and about 1/2 of it was still in the bore 6" ahead of the chamber. That would have been bye bye trapdoor and No reason why. Unless you could pull every load loaded that time and check them all yo wouldn't know for sure and even that might not do it. I don't think SEE because your load is almost 1/2 a case full and is pretty much a standard load for the caliber. In shooting thousands of these Red Dot loads I have not only never had this happen, but I have not really had positional problems. At least you are all right and the gun is stil in ok shape.

GooseGestapo
09-22-2006, 12:08 AM
I'll venture it was a double charge.

BTDT !!!!

I had a simular situation back in 2002. I had loaded a quantity of .30/06 with a Lee .311-170gr FN over 12.5gr of Unique.

While firing them (I had loaded these up to "season" the bore for some heavier loads with #2400 in them.

About the 8th rd, I got a REAL BANG. Like another poster said, the chrono showed about 3,000fps from a usual 1,400fps load.

I had to use a mallet to open the action. Case looked just like the first photo.

I could not believe it was a double charge. However, I pulled the bullets on all the rest, and guess what ???? One didn't have any powder !!!!

I had loaded these into a loading block and called myself "visually" checking to see that all had powder, an none with excessive powder.
Obviously, I "missed" something !!!!

I also had an overpressure round once with some H450, in the same .30/06 loaded under a Speer 180gr PtSP. These had been loaded from a single 1lb container. These when loaded in 1982 had given several 3-shots touching groups at 100yds. In 1993 I was "shooting" them up so I could reuse the Norma "match grade" brass for some different loads. One of them had an usually strong report and recoil. After using a mallet (same one used above, 10yrs later!) I removed what looked similar to the first photo, but really looked more like a belted .30/06 round, and of course the primer fell out.

Rather than a double charge, the powder had deterioated. I pulled the rest of the rounds. The powder had "clumped" and had an acrid acid odor. Most of the brass was heavily corroded inside and was unusable.

Had a similar incident with some surplus H322. It literally ate the brass up from the inside (.35Rem which is somewhat thinner than '06 brass).


SECONDLY: RE: Detonation of primer by vibration. I've had that happen too!!!

In April of 1997 I was shooting a pistol match (NRA PPC) at the Liberty Co. S.O. (Georgia). I was at the 7yd line of the 1500 match, (match 1). While firing the first string of fire, I heard a LOUD discharge and felt a "WhoosH" between my outstretched arms while running a string of rounds (12rds in 20sec. includes a reload; two handed standing, unsupported).
I need mention that on either side of me, were two shooters who were shooting semi-auto's (one was a .38Super and was LOUD!)

After the "run", I looked at my "shooters box" which is a SafariLand accessory box with a tray that holds 84rds in 6rd clusters on a loading block. (it was lying on the ground immediately in front of me on the firing line- under my outstretched arms while I was firing).
I noticed that one "cluster" was knocked out of block, and there was a wadcutter bullet lying in one of the "holes" where a loaded round was previously. I had powder burn residue and partially burned powder granules clinging to it, and lying around the bullet.

One of the rounds in the tray had "sympathically detonated" due to the muzzle blasts of the surrounding shooters.
This was largely because the round in question was one of several that had been loaded after I had swapped my press from loading 9mm to .38spl, which requires backing off the adjustment on the primer seating punch. The primers (Federal #100, known for their sensitivity- reason I was using them in my modified S&W M10 Match gun- will only "PoP" Federal primers), were "distorted" from overseating.

I also investigated a hunting accident involving a Remington .270 that was lying in the bed of a pickup truck. One of the hunters raised the tailgate on the truck and slammed it shut. When the tail gate slammed, the rifle fired, with the bullet coming through the tailgate and striking a bystander.

I first suspected that the rifles striker had dropped when the tail gate slammed, but the rifle was still cocked, and safety was still on when I took possession of the rifle. (Remember that Remington had a safety "campaign" regarding some of the safety's on mod 721's, 722's, and early 700's. My younger brother had a accidental discharge with one).

Crime lab analysis concurred with my "hypothesis" that the round had "sympathically detonated" as a result of the vibration and shock of the tailgate slamming.

It can Happen !!