3000 fps?

[XWrench3]

is this even possible? the new barrel on my 300 win mag for whatever reason seems so far to like only high pressure / velocity rounds. i was wondering if this kind of speed is even possible with a cast boolit? i know it would have to have a fair share of linotype, maybe even pure linotype. water-dropped, and i would probably use pure hi temp hi-pressure automotive grease hand applied for lube. will this thing basicly come out as shot from melting or breaking apart? the bullet mold is a lee ctl312-160-2r. and of course it would have a gas check. sized to .309" i dont want to just make a big mess of things, and honestly have never even before considered such a thing.

[Bret4207]

Love the tag line!

3K, wow, I dunno. Were it me, I'd investigate paper patching. I'm no expert, I've only played with it a bit, but it might be the ticket. IMO cartridge centricity and absolute minimum boolit runout will be key, a slow powder will be required and of course perfect castings. This in beyond Phd. level casting and into Gov't funded black ops level work.

Start at 1700 fps and work up, observe, record EVERYTHING, look for trends and patterns.

[pdawg_shooter]

Yes it can be done with paper patching. I did so with a 300RUM.

[redneckdan]

I've had the RCBS 250gr up over 3000fps with paper patching in my .375 H&H Not sure of the absolute accuracy but it was minute of rock out to 200yds from the sitting position and minute of skunk at 30' with a snap shot.....by the way...30' feet is not far enough to avoid the skunk splatter when one comes unglued.:groner:

[Rocky Raab]

Just consider that the jacketed bullet was developed because the best minds in the bullet business couldn't get cast bullets to withstand full-power smokeless loads beyond the .30-30 Win.

Personally, I take that as a hint.

[Moonie]

Yes, but lots of us here have been able to surpass those "best minds"

Worst case is you find one more way it doesn't work.

[white eagle]

I agree w Moonie
what can be lost but a lot gained

[Bret4207]

Rocky, the best minds using the materials and components at hand at that time. Right there I think is the crux of the situation that leads me to remain hopeful. Most folks are satisfied with jacketed for +2000fps work simply because it's just soooooooooooo much easier. But all it takes is one or two stubborn experimenters to bring us to a new level.

Go to it, and best of luck!

[BABore]

The velocity is obtainable, with accuracy, using either PP or traditional lubed boolits. It will be much easier to do with PP boolits though. If this is for punching paper, it's a worthy goal you set for yourself. If you want this velocity for shooting live critters, you may have issues. Varmits will not be a problem, but big game will be. That shiny copper jacket is not only useful for getting HV, it protects the soft lead core and keeps it from coming apart. An unprotected lead boolit will either grenade or flatten like a pancake and 3,000 fps. Now if your intent is to only shoot something at long range, where impact velocity is in the 2,000-2,400 fps range, you will have better conditions. Hard to plan that on a hunt. Sooner or later you will be presented with a point blank shot.

[docone31]

Well, that is it for me also.
I punch paper. I do it with enthuseasm! and my spelling sucks also, however, after many rounds, with good results, I can definately see where mass is a positive in lead projectiles.
My 6mm, I use only jacketed. I cannot vision anything other than a field mouse with a pure casting, paper patched with uber velocity, doing anything but crippling an animal.
I can reliably push my .30cal to 2500fps. Would I do that hunting? I do not hunt, so I have not done any tests on my loads. I believe I would prefer jacketed however. Without testing, I just get this feeling......
Now, a .45cal paper patched load. That is another story. Uber velocity paper patched lead load. I do not believe I would hunt with that.
I want one shot kills if I hunt. The big bores, the mass works there.

[sqlbullet]

Rocky, the best minds using the materials and components at hand at that time.

IIRC, they were also solving more than just the issue of leading. They wanted specific terminal performance, and they needed a bullet that would handle the rough ride through an automatic weapon. They wanted shapes not easily created or preserved in lead, like a spitzer. A jacket easily solved all of these issues.

I would be really interested in your results. I have a 300 win mag and it would be fun to punch some 200 grain lee bullets out of it at full velocity.

[pdawg_shooter]

This is from my original post on the 300RUM:

Back in November of 08 I decided to develop a sub-MOA, 3000fps load for a 30 caliber rifle. It took awhile, but I believe I have “got er done.”
The Rifle.
In order to get the velocity I wanted with this weight bullet I chose a 300RUM in a Savage model 116. It is stainless with a laminated stock. It came from the factory with pillar bedding, and I added glass behind the recoil lug, and under the front receiver ring and tang. I topped it with a Weaver T15 for this test. This rifle will group ¾ to 7/8 with good jacketed bullet loads.
The Bullet.
The most consistently accurate 30cal bullet I cast is the Lyman 311284 so this is the one I worked with. The alloy is a mix of WW and Linotype. I added lino. until an air cooled bullet tested 16.0 BHN on my Lee tester. The bullet was then sized .3015 with a push through die. This gave me full length bearing surface. The bullet was then patched with 16# green bar printer paper and allowed to dry overnight. I then clipped the tail, lubed with White Label BAC and run through a .310 push through die. This left the bullet .311 and ready to load. The finish weight, with patch, was 202gr.
The Brass.
I used new Remington brass. I full length sized them and sorted by weight allowing no more than +/- 1%. It was then trimmed to length, outside neck turned to .012 thickness, the primer pocket reamed to a uniform depth, flash holes drilled uniform and deburred. I then loaded with a 180gr. Core Lock and H4831 to fireform. The test load was then loaded in UNSIZED brass. I tried H1000, Retumbo, and finally settled on reloader25. The starting load was 88.0 and I worked up to 93.0. This gave me 3069 with no signs of excess pressure. Oh yes, the primer was a Federal 215. The bullets were seated about ¼ inch into the case and finished seating when the bolt was closed. This gave me an OAL of 3.670.
The Test.
Testing was done over 2 days. Shots were fired over a bench rest with a windage and elevation adjustable front rest and “bunny ear” rear rest. Twenty 3 shot groups were fired allowing the barrel to cool completely. The smallest group measured .760 and the largest was 1.140. The overall average figured out to .992. Mission accomplished, but just barely. So what good is this load? Not much unless you like poking holes in paper. Next step will be to neck size, seat to correct OAL and see how they shoot. Might make a good hunting load that way.
I do load some jacketed 180, 200, and 220 grain bullets for this one. It now wears a Simmons 3.5x10 scope. Maybe some day I can go elk hunting.

So you see it can be done!

[Harter66]

I'm with moonie.

I've a finiky 06' and am knocking at the door of 2000 fps with a plain based WDWW 200gr spitzer(sorta looks more like a tsx sans the hp) ,lube values being the current issue.

I'd swear I read a fellow over in paper patching smokeless that was getting 2900 with a 180 in a Win Mag.

An engineer once told me "the bumble bee is both physically an mechanically incapable of flight,apparantly nobody told the bumble bee ."

[Von Gruff]

Xwrench3 I have a hunting load and while it may only be at 2400fps it has proved very sucessful and a similar approach may work for your project. Like pdawg shooter (and a great result that was pdawg) has said meticulous brass prep is necessary but I worked with straight lino and stopped when I got to where sufficient velocity and accuracy was obtained to get me a 200 - 250yd usable hunting range. This is in my 7x57 rather than a 30 cal though. When I had a usable load in the lino, I cast a 65gn soft nose of 50/50 ww/pb in the front of a lino base for the same 160gn boolit and got the same vel - poi - accuracy as the straight lino load. Have used it to 185yds so far very reliably for very good kills. Have recovered only the one boolit and it retained 100% of its weight and expanded to .577 from the .2855.
Looking forward to your results - frustrations, as you work through this one.

Von Gruff.

[Marlin Junky]

Xwrench3 I have a hunting load and while it may only be at 2400fps it has proved very sucessful and a similar approach may work for your project. Like pdawg shooter (and a great result that was pdawg) has said meticulous brass prep is necessary but I worked with straight lino and stopped when I got to where sufficient velocity and accuracy was obtained to get me a 200 - 250yd usable hunting range. This is in my 7x57 rather than a 30 cal though. When I had a usable load in the lino, I cast a 65gn soft nose of 50/50 ww/pb in the front of a lino base for the same 160gn boolit and got the same vel - poi - accuracy as the straight lino load. Have used it to 185yds so far very reliably for very good kills. Have recovered only the one boolit and it retained 100% of its weight and expanded to .577 from the .2855.
Looking forward to your results - frustrations, as you work through this one.

Von Gruff.

Von Gruff,
I was wondering if you have tried heat treating your 50/50 and then drawing back the nose. I've been heat treating alloys that air cool in the BHN 10-12 range to BHN 30 which is harder than most available type metal. I'm getting less than 1", 5 shot groups at 75 yards (iron sights and I'm no spring chicken) that are leaving the 24" barrel of my 60+ year old 336 (30-30) at over 2400 fps.

When drawing back the nose to air cooled hardnesses, I set the boolits in a pan of cold water up to the ogive and gently warm the nose until they're golden brown. You'll need an alloy that melts above 500F to do this successfully... that's the reason for adding Pb to clip-on WW metal. Keep Sn away from your alloy 'cause all that stuff does is lower the melt temp. If you're concerned about the quality of cavity fill-out, turn up your pot to 750-800F and cast a little slower. I don't know how well an aluminum mold will function at these higher temps though.

MJ

P.S. I've been thinking about rebarreling an M77 short action with a standard bolt face to 7x57 and wondering if the the magazine box is long enough. My M77 .350 handles a 2.85" cartridge with ease and I think the mag box is right at 2.9" long. What the longest 7x57 cast boolit cartridge you normally stuff into the mag box? I really don't care to shoot anything longer than the 160-170 grain silhouette boolits and probably the usual fodder will be in the 120(LBT) to 150 range... thanks for you opinion.

[Bret4207]

IIRC, they were also solving more than just the issue of leading. They wanted specific terminal performance, and they needed a bullet that would handle the rough ride through an automatic weapon. They wanted shapes not easily created or preserved in lead, like a spitzer. A jacket easily solved all of these issues.

I would be really interested in your results. I have a 300 win mag and it would be fun to punch some 200 grain lee bullets out of it at full velocity.

Good point. And it wasn't just as simple as throwing some copper around some lead and calling it good. The early jacketed stuff tended to be very, very iffy in the killing dept. Sometimes they blew up, but more often they penciled on through. And then there was the jacket fouling that was like plating the bore, cores that would separate, people trying to make full patch military into hunting rounds by filing the tips off, vaporizing bullets in the early 3K+ rounds, etc.

Amazing we got where we are today. It was those stubborn gun cranks doing what they said couldn't be done.

[Bass Ackward]

Atta boy Pdwag.

XW3. ,

Allot depends on your relative humidity and ballistic coefficient (meplat size). The 225415 begins to vaporize at 3200 fps with 60 percent relative humidity. You can see the vapor trails in low wind, low light conditions. (looks kinda neet)

And on the dimensions of the holes in the target as well. Better BC and less humid and you can go on up.

Air friction (heat) is the eventual killer.

[45 2.1]

For the uninformed, Frank "Paco" Kelley has had a book out for years covering high speed lead with performance and accuracy. It coveres quite a bit more information than Veral Smiths book does. Your 3000 fps, with an appropriate cartridge, is quite doable.

[Larry Gibson]

3000 fps with cast bullets? Any cartridge that is capable of 3000 fps can certainly shoot a cast bullet that fast. The question is; with what kind of accuracy? As to your 300 Win Mag with a 10" twist; a lot of successful ground work has already been done with PP'd cast bullets as evidenced by the posts above and the write up in the NRAs Cast Bullet pubs although they didn't make it to 3000 fps. You must set your own accuracy requirement based on the capability of your rifle. If you decide 2 moa or 1 moa or whatever meets your criteria then work towards that goal. If you go the PP bullet route (I recommend that route with your rifle) then also be ready for a little frustration until you learn the PP technique and what works where you want to go. If you go the regular lubed cast bullet route get ready for a lot of frustration.

Bass mentions 225415 cast bullets coming apart at 3200 fps. Note also that jacketed varmint bullets come apart at 2800+ fps in some fast twist rifles. For those reasons you will have to overcome the increadable centrifugal force a 10" twist generates at 3000 fps to maintain any realistic level of accuracy with lubed cast bullets. Is it possible to shoot 3000 fps with some reasonable expectaion of accuracy (2 moa or less) with a regular cast bullet? Possibly yes, but more probably no. If you note in my thread on HV cast lubed bullet shooting I topped out (due to case capacity of the .308W cartridge) at 2600 fps with consistent and repeatable 1.5 moa accuracy. However, I was using slow burning powders, a cast bullet with specific design features for HV, a slow 14" twist and a longer 27.5" barrel. I was keeping the RPM under 140,000 which controls the centrafugal force at a workable level for regualr cast lubed bullets. I intend to get a 28 - 30" barrel with a 16" twist chambered in 30-06 to attempt 3000 fps with regualr cast lubed bullets also. At 3000 fps the RPM will still be under 140,000 so we shall see if 3000 fps can be done with consistent accuracy.

But who knows, if you attempt 3000 fps with your 10" twist 300 Win Mag perhaps you'll be the first to achieve consistant accuracy with regular cast bullets at that velocity. It all remains to be seen.

Larry Gibson

[Marlin Junky]

XWrench3,

With all due respect to Larry, don't worry about RPMs... it's just clouding the process of obtaining accuracy at high speed.

I'm consistently shooting 1.5MOA (using iron sights) with my 60+ year old 336 at 173,000+ RPM (with 4 narrow lands).

Worry about boolit fit/design, bearing length, hardness, pressure, lube quality, and barrel configuration/condition. Slowing down the twist may get you to 3000 fps easier; however, the land/groove characteristics are more important. I'll work with an old broached 1:10" .30 caliber barrel before selecting a hammer forged 1:12" .30.

If you want to go fast, I recommend fitting an LBT design (bearing surface all the way to the ogive like a copper patched bullet) to a long throated chamber with a gentle leade... something like an old Remington 700 in 30-'06. If you select an '06, you'll probably need to go with a 150-170 grain boolit and I bet you'll at least break 2700 fps with good accuracy assuming you've done everything correctly. Yeah, I may be sticking my neck out here a little, but if you think you need to stay under 140,000 RPM it'll make the process harder than it needs to be.

MJ

[jlchucker]

I don't know if it can be done or not, and I don't have any interest in trying it. But I'm very confident--in fact positive--that if it can be done, one or more of you guys will do it. The "best minds" referred to earlier are all dead now, and computers, along with brainpower, have evolved since the olden days. whoever does it will likely post it, targets and all, on this website. It's doubtful to me that any of the "experts" on other sites will be first.

[turbo1889]

This post deleted by original poster.



I am in process of deleting everything I have ever posted about casting with zinc because I have decided I will not share any of the knowledge I have learned over the years about casting with zinc due to the bloodthirsty prejudiced posts of some members on this forum viciously attacking those who cast with zinc. I will not share my knowledge with the enemy.

[Larry Gibson]

Yup, with all due respect to MJ, Bass, 45 2.1 and others here, that's why everybody is shooting cast lubed bullets at 2400 -2700 fps with 10" twist '06s at consistent 2 moa or better accuracy already. If that's the case hen why are we discussing this? 2700 fps, esay with an old Rem 700.....lot's of those lying around so why isn't anyone doing it? Then if 2700 fps with that kind os accuracy is so easy then 3000 fps ought to be easy enough.......so why isn't everyone already doing it?????????

Land groove charactoristics are more important? Seems like Xwrench3 already has the .300 Win Mg so the barrel is what it is. He can't readily change those "charactoristics without rebarreling. So if he is going to rebarrel why not go with a slower twist? I've 6 bolt action 30-06s with 10" twists and all of them have different rifling charactoristics. All of them lose accracy right about the same RPM. I hae 3 bolt action .308W rifles with varying rifling charactoristics of 10" twist. They all lose accuracy right about the same velocity which is also the velocity that the '06s lose accuracy. I have 2 bolt action .308Ws with 12" twists that los accuracy just about 250 fps higher than the 10" twist rifles. I have 2 M94 30-30s with 12" twists that lose accuracy at the same RPM the the 12" twist .308Ws lose accuracy. I have 3 12" twist .223s that also lose accuracy at the same velocity. I have a 14" twist 22 Hornet, a .223 and a .308W which all lose accuracy at the same velocity. There other in between twist rifle/cartridges that lose their accuracy right in between. Now what velocities are those: with 10" twists it is about 1950 fps, with 12" twists it is about 2200 fps and with the 14" twists it is about 2400 fps. Now with the right "boolit fit/design, bearing length, hardness, pressure and lube quality" you can push them another 200 fps and at least maintain 2 moa accuracy. So what do they all have in common? They all lose accuracy right under 140,000 RPM.

So is concern over RPM "clouding" the process of obtaining accuracy at HV? Not hardly, if you understand it you can deal with it and know when you have exceeded the RPM threshold because accuracy is bad. When you understand it you'll know how to deal with it. If you ignore it it will bite you and youll be chasing an elusive goal.

But then, again, if it is so easy why isn't every one doing it?

BTW; I am doing it because I do not ignore the adverse affect of high RPM and consider it one of the essential elements to deal with when shooting HV cast lubed bullets, look at my target on my HV thread; That's 37 consectutive shots at 100 and 200 yards hold 1.5 moa accuracy at 2600 fps.

Larry Gibson

[XWrench3]

so larry, are you saying that the lead will only hold that much rifling/speed, or that is comes apart over 140,000 rpm? i can understand that i may very well indeed be trying to get way more out of this than can be done. that is the initial reason for my post. to keep me from spending 6 months and ???$$$ trying to do something that can not physically be done. several guys have mentioned paper parching. that would mean that the paper would be biting into the rifling groves, and not the lead. it also means that there would be an insulator barrior between the lead, and the friction from the barrel, and from the flame front as it burns. now, if at roughly 140,000 rpm, unsupported lead simply breaks apart (after it leaves the barrel), then the whole idea is squashed. i may go for the paper patch idea, but if the bullet is simply going to spin itself apart, there is no point. i am not trying to make a shotgun!

[JIMinPHX]

I've gotten my .223 up over 3,000fps with no leading, but accuracy was poor. I can get up to around 2500fps with good accuracy without too much trouble. My standard alloy is almost the same as air cooled wheel weights. I use a gas check & Lyman Super Moly lube. I expect that I could improve my high velocity accuracy if I went to harder, tougher alloys, but I haven't taken the time to pursue that. I just don't really need that much speed for what I do. Some of my recent experiments have shown that faster powders deform the boolit before it leaves the barrel. I now believe that slower powders & longer barrels can improve high velocity accuracy as much as harder alloys.

[Larry Gibson]

XWrench3

so larry, are you saying that the lead will only hold that much rifling/speed, or that is comes apart over 140,000 rpm?

I am not saying either. I am saying there is a level where the centrafugal force of the RPM, while the bullet is in flight, overcomes the rotational stability of the bullet. This is not to say the bullet becomes totally unstable and spins off into never never land. What happens is the bullets path of flight begins to spiral. The longer the range the greater the spiral and the worse the accuracy. Keeping the bullet as balanced as possible during casting, loading and accelleration means there is less imbalance for the RPM to work on and the more accurate the bullets flight will be. This is why all bullets shoot into groups instead of one hole.

With cast lubed bullets there is a point where the CF of the RPM overcomes the rotaional stability of the normal flight distribution and spiralling begins. That is referred to as te "RPM Threshold". It is not a limit and may move up or down depending on how we cast and how we load. If we cast poorly, use poor loading techniques or simply use a fast burning powder, etc., the RPM threshold will be lower than if we cast well, load well and use a slow burning powder for example.

With well cast bullets and the medium burning powders the RPM threshold is around 140,000 RPM. The higher the velcoity we drive cast lubed bullets to then other things also come into play. There is also a point where the structural strength of the alloy is not able to withstand the rotational forces and it will come apart. This is well above 140,000 RPM. It is however around 140, 000 RPM that the spiralling effect will begin if all is not balanced with the bullet on exit from the barrel. It is there that the spiraling effect will begin if the CF can over come the rotational stability of the bullet. If we keep the bullet stable enough so the CF can't over come it then the spiralling effect won't happen.

You can beat yourself to death trying toget to 3000 fps and not have your 300 Win Mag shoot cast lubed bullets "like a shotgun" but the easiest way is to avoid going beyond the RPM threshold in the 1st palce. The problem you have is your 300 Win Mag has a 10" twist so that is what you must deal with. To approach 2400, 2500 or 2600 fps, let alone 3000 fps, the stresses of accelleration on the bullet are enormous and keeping it sufficiently balanced are going to prove to be dauntingly difficult with that 10" twist rifle.

As to holding the rifling I've seen some evidence of some intially stripping from the rifling on some cast bullets under some conditions. However, the evidence suggests almost entirely that cast bullets, given reasonably good normal rifling, do not "strip" in the rifling entirely. They do take to the rifling even at very high velocities. I have shot cast bullets at 2800 and 3000 fps and the bullet holes in the target, while not resembling anything that could be referred to as "accurate", were still round. This is ample evidence the bullets did not "strip" the rifling, even at those high velocities and were satbilized to fly point forward. Had they "stripped" in the rifling they would not have flown point forward to the 100 yard target.

Even as I demonstrate and show how easily accuracy may be had at 2600 fps with a cast lubed bullet when the RPM are controlled and kept under 140,000 some still want to discount it. Consider this; any 30-06 can easily shoot any cast lubed bullet of 180 gr or less at 2600 - 2700 fps but the real problem is doing it accurately. If it so easy to do, as claimed by or at least insinuated by a couple on this thread, then with all those 10" twist '06s out there why isn't everyone doing it?

The reason is at 1950 fps those '06s pass the RPM threshold. We can do some things right pushing the RPM threshold higher and still get good accuracy at 2200 fps but beyond that it is very, very, very difficult to maintain accuracy beyond that velocity. I'm not saying it's impossible" (never did say that) but I am saying it is highly improbably. So to you I say; go ahead and give 3000 fps a try. When you get to the point you don't want to spend any more money and don't want any more frustration then give what I'm saying a thought and take a look at what I am accomplishing and how easy I am doing it simply by controlling the RPM and keeping it under 140,000.

I do suggest the PP'd cast bullet with your 300 Win Mag if yo want the best chance of any meaningful accuracy at 3000 fps.

Larry Gibson

[Bret4207]

Okay, I got no dog in this fight, I'm just making a couple observations.

I have read of the things Larry talks about with jacketed, the spiral as the CF overcomes rotational stability. This was demonstrated frequently 30-50 years back, no wait- I forget how old I am, in the '20's, 30's and 40's lets say. This was in the day of handmade jacketed bullets that were often unbalanced. There is report after report of the "doughnut" groups Larry mentions. I think there's something to it.

2- MY HV experiments have been very limited, I just don't have the time. But alignment and concentric loading have proven to be extremely important. I never got over 22-2300 fps and found that to be true.

I have no doubt 3K can be reached. I have no doubt there is a limit to what a common lead alloy can take as far as rotational speed goes. Where that point is or how to affect it? Got me.

[XWrench3]

thank you larry, i certainly respect and value your input. in terms of high velocity shooting, i know basicly nothing, hence the post. as it stands now, i realize that the bullet mold i have now, will be useless for doing this. with these tiny tumble lube grooves, i was a little skeptical anyway. so until i get a p.p. 30 cal bullet mold, or buy p.p bullets (if they are even available in 30 cal), i will not waste my time trying this experiment with a regular bullet. i will however, shoot for 2500, and see how that goes. this does have a 26" barrel, so that should help. i also wonder why there is no load data using slow powders in cast bullet data like imr7828 or 4831. i would suspect because no one (well, next to no one) tries pushing cast bullets that fast. any high speed rounds will be shot strictly at paper. i have a 45/70 and a 363g ranch dog mold for hunting, and for the 300 mag, i would use "J" bullets for hunting, as i know how those will react inside of an animal. i would think that hyper velocity (over 2500 fps in cast) would really be something that small caliber guys would be trying hard to get perfected. cartridges like 22-250, 223, and the like just seem to me that the entire reason for their being is velocity, and without it, you might as well be shooting a 22 lr. i have a 223, but so far, only shoot "J" bullets in it. in any case, no matter how all of this turns out, it will be valuable lessons for me. to this point, i have been keeping the velocity way down on all of my cast boolit loads, just so i would not have to scrub lead out of the barrel. they are TONS OF FUN to shoot anyways. i let my brother shoot my 30-30 last weekend with light plinking loads. it was the first time he had ever shot cast boolits in a rifle. i almost had to pry the gun out of his hands! i dont know why, but when i shoot "J" bullets, everthing is serious business. but when i shoot these "plinker" loads, i can relax, and just enjoy shooting.

[pdawg_shooter]

i realize that the bullet mold i have now, will be useless for doing this. with these tiny tumble lube grooves, i was a little skeptical anyway. so until i get a p.p. 30 cal bullet mold, or buy p.p bullets (if they are even available in 30 cal),

Your mold WILL work for paper patching. Just size the casting down to .301/.3015 in a push through die and patch back up with #16paper, lube, run through a .310 die and load.

[Larry Gibson]

XWrench3

Please do shoot for 2500 fps. Also please keep us informed on your progress. If we can help don't hesitate to ask.

Larry Gibson.